World Map -unbalanced?
 

I've noticed at least one world map which appears unbalanced and I recommend caution when using for multiplayer. Whoever made the map placed high magic sites and high income for the majority of Europe... as a result anyone starting here has a much greater and unbalanced advantage. Another note is no where else in the world exists such an advantage making it unbalanced for multiplayer in my book.

Also to make the map unbalanced to such a degree is also not historically correct.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Which world map is this?

Don't most nation start in Europe, and thus fight each other for the sites? Vanheim, Jotunheim, Man, Pangaea, Ermor/Pythium, Marignon, etc.
In e.g. South America, with less competition you can grab more provinces -> potentially more sites.

Didn't Europe have more resources than the other parts of the World? Or at least, weren't the Europeans the first to use e.g. Coal to power machines, and thus first to industrialize, and then able to share the rest of the world between themselves?

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

It's just Europe... not any parts of Russia, etc... and it's unbalanced since about 7 provinces are all jammed together with the high income and high magic site bonus.


Did you even look at the map in the editor... it's WAY TOO MUCH... I'm shocked you'd try to justify it.
Many unique achievements and inventions were made all over the world... China first to use gunpowder and the USA has a HUGElist of their own.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

I don't think the map was meant to be balanced. Just my opinion. It seems entirely too difficult to do so if you're jamming that much nations there.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

A little unbalance or even some unbalance is expected with most maps... but the world map I viewed in the editor was seriously way unbalanced.

This makes it virtually impossible to play a legitimate multiplayer game without using fixed starting locations.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

WHICH of the world maps are you talking about? Official Illwinter world map, satellite world map (or was that just Northern America?), the updated-graphics one, Neo-Pangaea...

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

also, i dont' mean to be a snob or anything, but shoudln't this thread be in the maps and mods forum?

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Next time I'm home I'll check... my work keeps me moving and busy. It shouldn't be that difficult to find I believe less than 5 world maps exist.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

My original design might very well have been unbalanced, but this was hopefully remedied a bit by double starting locations. Haven't played on it since just after the release of dom2 though.

> This makes it virtually impossible to play a legitimate multiplayer game without using fixed starting locations.

Perhaps the maker of that particular map (me or someone else) intended the map to be used with fixed strating locations and though that it was reasonably well balanced if used with fixed starts.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

The map is still good for more challenging SP games... or new players looking for an easy map to use for learning.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

I'm confused, why not just use it with the fixed starting locations?

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

To start a map where every kingdom always starts in the same place quickly kills replay value of the map.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Doog Dog! Who would want to play the World map multiplayer more than once??? Nothing against Kristoffer's map - I guess a number of people like it for SP games, but I've found that most people, even those who said they loved huge maps, wound up hating MP games on World or Faerun.

If it isn't the level of micromanagement when multiple nations have 100+ provinces, then it's the way players drop out (often without even having the grace to go AI or notify of it). And if it isn't players dropping out, it's the bugs that crop up in the mid to late game on the huge maps, where you can no longer see what's in provinces despite having control of neighboring provinces or even spies in the province.

Not to mention, the game getting blown away when the hard unit limit is finally broken.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Yes I agree... even tho I love large maps I've learned the key to still enjoy playing them. Setting up capitals as victory points and usually we agree 40% of total victory points is the winner... sometimes more for longer games.

Perhaps someone can start an unofficial Hall_of_Glory/Hall_of_Shame---list. This list will detail the players who played when they dropped out or turned AI and total provinces when they dropped out. Thus if someone drops out when they have only 1 province left they'll be more reliable compared with the fella who dropped out when he had 15 provinces remaining. This would be especially valuable when starting a game with teams... heck I wouldn't want to be teamed with the individual who drops out with 15 provinces remaining.

Yes I agree... hopefully this gets fixed in DOM_3. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Think we'd need that on a non-Shrapnel / Illwinter site. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif I know a couple who would be nominated, and one who'd be at the top : dropped out of multiple games, while still playing others, and didn't even respond to messages on here asking him to at least go AI. He dropped out when he controled ... all of Africa and part of Europe. What made it worse, well, more personal - Mark the Merciful had a _treaty_ with me at the time, so I finally noticed after all of Europe and half of Africa were already taken.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Perhaps Gandalf or ZEN or Arryn would be interested in adding a Hall_of_Glory_and_Shame to their website.

(Not sure if ZEN has a website but he seems like the type which would)


Since the information would list pure facts about previous games I don't see any issues.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Yeah this will be the single most important feature for DOM 3. Though i will buy DOM 3 anyways if DOM 3 has a unitlimit < 1 million Units i think i will be highly demotivated.
It is especially important for Single Player (which i still play sometimes and still enjoy). The AIs have a lot of troops there and as player i find it always fun to try to defeat them with troops only too. Even a 150 province Map can in SP get very close to the unit limit.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

I would hate to moderate the complaints on such a list.
"I shouldnt be on that list because"
1) my computer died
2) my ISP died
3) my country had a military coup
4) we had a baby
4) my dog died
5) my dog ate my turn
6) my dog ate the computer cables, then died, which also killed my computer, and my country had a military coup which caused my wife to give birth early

But I suppose it could be done if you kept it purely factual. At xx turns into the game player yyyyyyy left with XX provinces and a pretender.

Gandalf Parker
--
Do not go quietly into the night
rage rage rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
What does that mean? It means dont be a putz and quit the
multiplayer game before your candles are snuffed.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

I see the list being very valuable in the long_run for multiplayer games. Someone who's always known for fighting until the bitter end will have more players eagerly wanting to be on their team.
A one time vanish because of a down computer or personal issue won't hurt the reputation of those playing many many games being played for DOM_2 and on into DOM_3.

Exactly I see no harm in listing just the facts.

This rewards the players with the guts to stick it out. And encourages those with more yellow bellies to be more brave.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

the only games ive left are 2 blitzs due to the amount of time they lasted and one game were i had maybe 2-3 smiths, a crusher, 4 ulmish infantry, 2-3 provinces and atleast 30 giants including a giant pretender on my doorstep, can you blame me?

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

Ive seen people leave because they managed to kill off their pretender in the first few moves. Before even meeting another player. On the other extreme Ive continued playing with no castle, no temples, no labs, and no god.

But still such a list could have some problems. Listing only the facts will help, but who provides the "facts"?

By the way Im still not volunteering. Maybe when Dom3 is up and running I will be motivated to do it. Or provide access as I have in the past so that someone else can provide such things off of my site. Did you notice the "theme song" for such a project in my sig? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Gandalf Parker

--
Do not go quietly into the night
rage rage rage against the dying of the light - Dylan Thomas
What does that mean? It means dont be a putz and quit the
multiplayer game before all of your candles are snuffed.

Re: World Map -unbalanced?
 

That's just wrong.

A website listing the games and the facts would allow new and old gamers to recognize you as reliable.

For starters I suggest using only MP games with threads within 'Dom 2 Scenarios, Maps & Mods'. Those who remain playing the game could agree when each player vanished... then add one day just to be friendly.

I suggest the following facts:
At xx turns into the game player yyyyyyy left with ZZ provinces and WW players remaining.

Thus if someone leaves on Turn_122 with 10 provinces remaining on the Faerun map when only 2 players are left it won't look as bad as someone leaving on Turn_34 with 7 provinces on the Orania map when 8 players are remaining.

Well hopefully it eventually appears... the sooner it appears the more of a history good players can rack-up for themselves and it will help encourage those more yellow to stick it out.
Yes I like the signature and completely agree.