If You Ever Wanted To
 

If you ever wanted to get rid off all those FQM massive asteroid systems, well do what the Expanded Mod AI player just did to me. I had nearly turned most of those asteroids, some 50 or more total, into planets when a lone AI ship entered the system and proceeded to the start. OMG! Kabooom, the who system was layed waste as the AI colapsed the sun into a black hole. No more asteroids.

Well this got me thinking, who needs a system filled with 50 planets or more? I know that colapsing a star in many of the problem systems, such as organic infestation, comet systems, etc into a black hole then killing the black hole opens the system back up. It never occured to me, that is until the AI did it too me, to use this method to clear huge asteroid systems. Once they are all gone, I can create a new star and build a sphere world. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Yes, but can you create a 50 asteroid field system out of a single spherewold system?

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

The asteroids work better in mods that have reasonable remote mining and limit the size of created planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

There is always the No AST option for far fewer asteroids. You'd have to add other types than Mid-Life if you want to play them, but it's really easy since most quadrants share the same system data and just have different header information for system placement. The exceptions are things like Old, Newborn, Ancient, Ideal, and Paradise.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Once the asteroids are gone, they are gone permanently and you can't reverse the process.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

This type of anihilation would work well in PBW games because once the planets are gone, they are truly gone. So instead of blowing up stars, just collapse them and win by attrition.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Yes you can reverse the process, but it’s very inefficient.

Start with a system with one ringworld or sphereworld.
Step:
1) Use a nebula creating ship to destroy system. (Note: Order must be issued from a sun in another system.)
2) Remove system nebula. This will leave an asteroid in place of the ring/sphere-world.
3) Create a new star
4) Use new star to create a new ringworld
5) Then Repeat Steps 1-4 until you have enough asteroid fields.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

What? You can use a star in another system to destroy a ring or sphere world?

PvK

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Sounds like he's found an obvious bug, since it's predicated on giving the order while positioned over another system's sun. I've never heard of that one before, but it's not extraordinary considering some of the other quirks we've known about.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

You can use the black hole or nebula creation device on a remote system as long as the ship starts on a sun sector. The black hole device will cause the sun where the order is given to vanish. The nebula device doesn’t do anything to the sun at the starting location.

You can also use a second sun in the same system as a ring/sphere world to destroy the system.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

These two exploits were used quite extensively in the Shattered Hopes game, documented in the Nova Storm War AAR started by Glyn. The nebula creation one was responsible for the destruction of my main fleet that prompted my surrender at the end, but I'm afraid I can't really complain - I'd turned at least about a dozen systems into black holes without ever visiting their stars http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

I don't think anyone has a problem with you being able to remotely order the destruction of a star. The thing that is a bug is if it lets you blow up a ringworld simply because you gave the order remotely, when you aren't supposed to be able to blow up a ringworld with a nebulae device at all.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Wow, I never knew you could do that. This changes everything. Does this mean you can wipe out your enemies remotely from far away by building a bunch of nebula creators? Oh, boy, if you know this trick and your enemies don't, it's such a huge advantage. It doesn't matter if the other guy has huge fleets defending his borders, you could blow them all up without fighting them! Fighting the A.I.'s could become too easy now.

Question: do system gravitational facilities still protect you from such an attack? Does the game check for system gravitational facility protection in the target solar system, or in the originating system?

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

I say I'd have a problem with it... The mechanism is clearly meant to require you to be on the star to use the device. Otherwise you would not have to be on the star to issue the order in the first place.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

I built a nebula creation ship to try this trick but I couldn't get it to work. It always destroys the system my ship is in, not the other system that I want to destroy.

The problem is that as soon as I try to select a star in another system, my nebula ship is de-selected and now the stellar manipulation functions aren't available. I could view a different system while still having my ship selected, but then when I create the nebula, the local system is destroyed instead of my intended target.

I'm guessing that it doesn't work because I'm using turn-based mode. I'll have to start a new game in simultaneous mode and try it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

What? You lost that game douglas? After taking out what was it, 3, 4 of us noobs in one fell swoop? I'm disappointed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

What other quirks?

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Yes a system shield generator should prevent it.

It was done in a simultaneous PBW game, but it may work in non-simultaneous game if you managed to queue up your orders.
Try using all the ships movement ending on a star. Queue up the move to new system command and the command to go boom.

I don't recall ringworld or sphereworld saying that they prevent any type of stellar manipulation. The only reason they do is because it changes the object from a sun to a type of planet object.

We are talking about the two most advanced (research cost) peaces of technology in the stock game. It may be a bug, but it made for a very challenging & fun game.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Whether or not it says it in the description, you can't fly up to a ringworld and blow it up with a nebulae generator. But you can blow it up with the same nebulae generator if you have the forethought to issue said order while in the same sector as a star in another system.

One way or the other, that's a bug. Either you should be able to blow it up or not.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

I would list this bug as a must fix on the list for future updates for SE IV Deluxe. (Aaron said he would still support the game.)

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

It *is* possible to mod in components that can destroy ring/sphereworlds in a legitimate manner, isn't it?

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Yes, it is. Just count how many entries are in PlanetSize.txt before and including the ring/sphereworld one and give your mega-planet destroyer a Destroy Planet ability with value at least that high.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

Hmmm.... How to break SE4:

1 Mod a ringworld-killing component.
2 Build lots of construction bases over a star, with plating/ cable/ ringworld generator ships on repeat build.
3 Let X=1

4 Construct a ringworld.
5 Destroy it. Note that it leaves an asteroid field.
6 Place a star on the same square.
7 Turn the asteroid field into a planet and colonise it.
8 Turn the star into a ringworld. You now have a X planets and *and* a ringworld in the same sector.
9 Let X=X+1

10 Repeat steps 4 to 10 until X is equal to a few hundred. Open some warp points from that sector as well, and chuck in a few storms, just for good measure.
11 Save the game.
12 Persuade an enemy to attack this sector. (Or gift one of the planets to him.)
13 Point and laugh as the game tries to fit way too many planets, ringworlds, warp points, ships and things into the combat map, then collapses spectacularly. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Grenade.gif[/img]
14 Post the savegame to this forum so we can all see it for ourselves.

Don't forget to convert all the planets to your native atmosphere, max conditions, population & value, and then fill them with monoliths.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

grin Dogscoff. I don't know for sure it would break SE4, but don't count on it running through on PBW. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Someone once posted a screenshot of a combat where there were more ships then squares on the combat grid. What happened was the game placed ships on-top of each other. You couldn't move a ship on top of another, but the game will place them there if it rounds out of room setting up the combat turn. I assume it would do the same thing in the case of planets.

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

You see, there should have been a max ship per combat limit in SEIV. Proof positive right there in that example. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: If You Ever Wanted To
 

I experimented some more to try the remote nebula-creation trick.

OK, your nebula-creation ship has to be sitting at a star in a neighboring system to the one you want to destroy. Then you order your ship to warp to the target system and then create the nebula. The ship has to end up somewhere in the target system but it doesn't have to be in the same sector as the star. Of course your nebula ship will be destroyed when the system is destroyed. This works. So your opponent could have a huge fleet parked over their star and you can blow them up without fighting them.

However, if there's a sphereworld in the target system but no star, this trick doesn't work. You can still issue the order, but when your nebula ship arrives in the target system you get a message that says you can't create a nebula because there is no star.

So I don't think you can use this method to create new asteroids where none existed before.