What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:IV?
 

I have a question, what is the point of some weapons systems in SE:IV? The base game has weapons systems that I can't seem to find any reason to use. For example torpedoes. What advantage do you have for using them? Even better plasma missiles. If you mod the game you can give them better uses but the base game I can't see a point in having them. This is something that I hope is resolved in in SE:V.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

All of the weapons were good in SE3.
However, the conversion to SE4 was not that great... APBs, and PPBs in particular were made far too strong.

Play Mods. They're a huge part of the game, and if you pass them up, you're missing 90% of the potential here.

Aaron works on the game engine... the community uses it to create greatness.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Several mods have better usages for those weapons, but as far as I know, stuff like torpedos are basically useless. Anti-proton beams are one of the best weapons in stock, I believe.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:IV?
 

That's how I usually play with mods. But I wish that the standard game would correct these. Was this ever brought up as an issue.

Torpedoes should have a bonus to hit and slightly higher yield for damage, ect. Any way to have improvements to weapons approved for standard game play?

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

I think the problem is in the idea that there is a "Standard Game".
Hopefully this will be corrected in SE5.

There is pretty much no chance that Aaron will be making balance changes to stock. It has been this way for half a decade.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

on that note, what are some of the measures people have done to improve things like torpedos. I use to use them almost exclusively in SEIII, and I wouldn't mind making some improvements to weapon balance in DN4.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

There was a huge thread started over the use of Torpedeos. It turned into one of the best strategy threads out. But when the forum was re-made, in 2004, the link to the thread was lost. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Torpedeos are not useless, they serve a purpose... I just don't recall what exactly that purpose was.... range or something..

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Combined Arms
Torpedos are a small part of the Combined arms package. Also torpedos are very useful for taking out planets at long range and reducing your fleets damage in smashing heavily fortified planets. so far in SEIV ALL weapons have a 'niche'

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

I disagree. Torpedos are pretty much worthless. The best torpedo has a damage ratio of 1.25 at range 6. So does APB X, which also does more damage at lower ranges and has 1 greater range, all while being far more flexible with fire rate 1. Even down to APB VII is fairly comparable to the best torpedo. The same level of torpedo, the Quantum Torpedo II, has damage ratio less than 1 at all ranges... Torpedos are also roughly twice as expensive per kiloton compared to APB.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Perhaps some of you are confusing torpedoes (direct fire, total suck compared to APB), and missiles (at least they have long range)

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

I never used torps in stock either. They were totally nerfed. In Eclipse I gave them an accuracy bonus, good range, and good power. One of the first things I changed even before Eclipse, actually.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Well, I suppose that in some situations, a slow loading weapon that does more damage per shot could be better than a fast loading weapon that does less damage per shot. For example, if the enemy ships are using emissive armor, the slower loading but more powerful attacks might end up doing more damage over time. But I'm not sure because I don't use torpedoes or emissive armor either. Or maybe the slower but more powerful weapons could be useful for warp point defense if you shoot first and do more damage.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

I've wondered about that myself. It seems like their are really only three viable weapons systems: <font color="red"> Anti-Proton Beams </font> , <font color="blue"> Capital Ship Missiles </font> , and <font color="green"> Point-Defense Systems </font> .

While I'm sure there are those who will heartily disagree, and while admittedly organic,crystalline, and psychic systems exist that rival or exceed theses systems, realistically they are the only effective standard weapons available.

Most others just offer an interesting combination of imaginative, though secondary , weaponry. If you really want to stand a chance, you either rely on the basics, or you shoot for extreme systems that kill stars or planets.

IMHO, No really viable middle ground....

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Hey guys try this weapon out. It is basically an extension of the DUC, but with more damage. Just make sure to post it to the bottom of your component files or else it'll mess up your game. Enjoy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif




Name := Gauss Cannon I
Description := Medium range cannon which fires metallic shells along a magnetic track.
Pic Num := 98
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 200
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 8
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2027
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Projectile Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 6
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 19
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := uranc.wav
Weapon Family := 25

Name := Gauss Cannon II
Description := Medium range cannon which fires metallic shells along a magnetic track.
Pic Num := 98
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 350
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 250
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 8
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2027
Roman Numeral := 2
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Projectile Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 7
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 60 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 19
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := uranc.wav
Weapon Family := 25

Name := Gauss Cannon III
Description := Medium range cannon which fires metallic shells along a magnetic track.
Pic Num := 98
Tonnage Space Taken := 40
Tonnage Structure := 40
Cost Minerals := 400
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 300
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 8
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2027
Roman Numeral := 3
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Projectile Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 8
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 80 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Torp
Weapon Display := 19
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := uranc.wav
Weapon Family := 25

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Ripper Beams and Wave Motion Guns have their place as well; Rippers for the short-range punch when defending WPs (or when you can't hit at long range anyway) and WMGs for the +30% to-hit bonus.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

CSMs are next to useless in the mid/late game. PD is far too strong. In the early game, yeah, they are long-ranged heavy-hitters, but when PD starts to crop up everywhere, your missile ships' days are numbered.....

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Personally, I love the Computer Virus Weapon. In the late game when everyone uses Master Computers, they can be devastating if you toss them into the mix. Only take 20kT of space, go through shields and will take any master computer out, effectively giving the stricken ship a movement of 1. Negates any speed advantage your opponent may have.

Hard hitting but slow firing weapons, such as the Wave Motion Gun, the more powerful organic weapon (can't recall the name) and the Mental Singularity Generator(?) that Psychic can give you can all be great for warp point defense against an opponent using lots of Crystalline armor. With the ability that Crystalline has, you need powerful weapons that can do enough damage in a single shot to penetrate the shields that are generated from damage and also to do some damage to the actual armor. If you can do 500+ damage per shot, that's the trick.

Null Space Cannons are also great (though prohibitively expensive) weapons against any opponent, but especially one that uses lots of armor. All internals, including weapons and engines will all be destroyed before the armor is touched, which cripples the enemy in only a couple shots. Also remember, penetrates shields as well. Slow firing rate, but they can work great.

You have more options than just APB's with a few PD thrown in.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

the best weapons mix vs crystal i have found is the shield depleter, apb combo alternating sdp and apb.

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

Ladies and gentlemen the I-Las http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Name := Imperial Laser-Beam I
Description := Focused energy beam used as a Long range weapon.
Pic Num := 320
Tonnage Space Taken := 25
Tonnage Structure := 25
Cost Minerals := 300
Cost Organics := 0
Cost Radioactives := 100
Vehicle Type := Ship\Base\Sat\WeapPlat\Drone
Supply Amount Used := 5
Restrictions := None
General Group := Weapons
Family := 2000
Roman Numeral := 1
Custom Group := 0
Number of Tech Req := 1
Tech Area Req 1 := Energy Stream Weapons
Tech Level Req 1 := 13
Number of Abilities := 0
Weapon Type := Direct Fire
Weapon Target := Ships\Planets\Ftr\Sat\Drone
Weapon Damage At Rng := 85 85 85 85 70 65 65 65 65 50 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Weapon Damage Type := Normal
Weapon Reload Rate := 1
Weapon Display Type := Beam
Weapon Display := 11
Weapon Modifier := 0
Weapon Sound := apbeam.wav
Weapon Family := 1

Excellent range, good damage will carve you up and spit you out. Problem is it's expensive and it definately alters space battles!

Re: What\'s is the point of certain weapons in SE:I
 

I think that's slightly overstated, though there are several weapons which do seem more or less to have no effective niche at all. Some players have argued that Torpedoes and Graviton Hellbores have a niche for doing more damage in an initial volley, but they have so little advantage there, if any, that few seem to agree or bother with them.

You didn't mention Shield Depleters, which are one of the best weapons unless your enemy uses no shields at all. Warp Weapons and Ionic weapons can also have decisive effects.

In a mid-tech-level war, Phased Polaron Beams are very good before people develop phased shields. I tend to even stop at level 2 and research other things, because the range is as good as the highest level, and the damage-to-cost ration is better.

I have also found niches for Meson Blasters in the unmodded game, again being lower tech, and sometimes being limited to range 6 is an advantage depending on the combat modifiers between empires.

As others have mentioned, Wave Motion Guns and Ripper Beams have some niches, and Computer Virus are valuable.

Many mods greatly improve on all of this, of course.

PvK

P.S. The weapon imbalances have been I mentioned to Malfador since the initial beta, and many improvements were made over the years, but many others remain.