Israel attacking Iran next October
 

My frend started a game with me. He chouse a meeting fight on 10/2006. I wondered a little becouse how has it been possible to know beforehand the machinery those nations have on next October.

And now after 10 turns I am in a quite hopeless situation. I can not do anything agains Israeli air forcies.

I have to live to the end of this game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif
But then I want take the same map and the same situation again, choosing a better combination of forcies. But are there any real possibilities for an army of a developing country against an highly technical enemy? What AA do you recommend me to use?

Please, help http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

If you can spare 1000pts or so for Air defense you should be able to get a reasonably effective force. 2 or 4 SANAM 2-34s to travel with your main force, 3 SA-6 SAMs to hide on a hill top for standoff protection and six stationary AAA guns with radar to scatter around your gun line. Service these units with ammo carriers, Boragh ammo looks good and has the added bonus of .50AAMGs. If you have more than 5000 pts to spend you can afford this AA force. It will make his air attacks costly. [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Plane.gif[/img] http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

At this date you probably have access to the favorit LR-SAM, and the RBS-70 inf-SAM.


Andy

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Now I have tryed long fighting against my frend on 10/2006. He has coninued as the commander of Israeli troops and I have had Iracians. The SANAM 2-34s have been able to shut down a helicopter 2-3 times but in the long run they all soon become killed. The SA-6 SAMs usually do nothing or their missails do not hit. The stationary AAA guns with radar are the best weapons but becouse they are stationary, they are on the back and also in the long run artillery strikes hit them.

I have tryed many tackticks but nothing seems to help. My best result has been a draw, in that case my frend did some bad errors.

I wonder how one should deal with "now" i.e. 10/2006 with Iracian armament against Israelian. Are here any who dares to show me that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif

A meeting on a map I chouse, 5000/5000?

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Get him to stop playing as Israel, or pick a more modern army to fight against him. The Iraeli OOB is EXCELLENT!

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

The Israelis get junk and they turn it into something useable. Try Russians with a few 2S6M1 Tunguska, SA-13 Gopher, SA-11 Gadfly, or SA-15 Gauntlet. All moblile launchers so they can stay up with your tank corps. Also get SA-18S SAM troopers to mix in with your infantry. Will give low level protection. All in time/era you mentioned.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Perhaps you can also gain access to Iraqi or Jordanian equipment since the Israelis had to pass through them to get to Iran in the first place. Or has an Iranian unit decided to just visit the Gaza strip?

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

The net result of this discussion has been, that it is impossable for Iran troops to win Israelian in any battle. In SPMBT game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Nope.

If you play to the israeli strengths, and try a heavy armour based force, you will likely die.

So avoid that, take a leg infantry-based force with arty support, a few shoulder mounted SAM to annoy helos, and a few of those Toophan-2 TOW missiles (multi charge warhead, decent chance vs APC and side shots on heavies). Any SAM intended to covert the arty park in the rear - a few ammo units would be useful for. use ammo bunkers near a few on-map arty units perhaps (but these are a bit expensive). maybe buy some sa-10 favourites (3-4), if he has planes these may take his attention away for a few moves while he deals with them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

for each elite inf co or regular inf co, probably best to take a coy of militia/conscript stuff. Advance those 10-12 hexes ahead of the good troops to use up ammo (especially his arty ammo) , act as "minesweepers" etc.

Avoid vehicles - his army strength is in vehicle killing. (maybe a few tin cans, or a fast cheap-model APC coy) to charge in the end game, held hidden behind hills in the early game).

Buy first (be player 1). Do not spend too many points, as the Israeli wants to buy loads of expensive kit, which you then can only match by buying high-ticket MBT etc. Don't play his game!.

you can buy 2 G5 off-map platoons for the price of 1 merkava. (Base mobhack values non adjusted for experience). let each israeli merkava have its own personal G5 platoon follow it round the battlefield http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

buy 3 or 4 forward observers, so you have a reasonable chance of observed fires, spread over your front.

As you will be player 1 - make sure the battlefield favours you. Look for one with hills and ridges, as he plays best on a tennis-court type battlefield. You want broken, for closer range engagements and to reduce his TI sight advantage, and you will love cities & towns http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Keep spinning the map till you like it, or edit it a bit, or load a custom map, and look at the v-hex placement too.

all the above, any veteran of the Iran-Iraq war would probably recognise!. (The iraqui T72 of that period is just as nasty as the merkava vs contemporary Iranian tanks).

If you really must try to play his style of battle, with tanks and stuff, again - make sure you are player 1 and shape the battlefield your way. But use some of your strengths - buy quite a few leg rifle coys and a lot of G5 platoons. use the leg grunts to go forward and trip over things, your arty to annoy him, and the broken terrain to hide behind. Cover the battlefield in shoulder fired SAm and buy some toophan-2 teams as well. Play cautiously with your MBT, try for short range fights from the flanks, and try to let him come to you rather than making offensive moves in the open. That is why you need the broken terrain - you really need to get ambushes. You will lose tank duels. If he hunkers down waiting in ambush for you behind a ridge or village say, range in the arty on his area and send the grunts in http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif. Buy loads amd loads of RPG teams, and dot over the battlefield to spot any such ambushes, and they may get lucky with a side shot as well.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

I am so hardy that I try again and again ...
I thank you very much of your comprehensive advice.
The only problem is that my frend also can read ithttp://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/skull.gif

I keep you informed of all my success in the future.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Hi, I tried to setup a company for you that costs the 1000pts following Mobhack's advice. This is what I came up with if you like you can use it. OM155mmM114, OM105mmM101, ArtObs76x2, RSAKwRPG7x3, RSM14wM20x2, StrelaSAMx2, HQ, SagheghRPGx2, Basij68riflex3, AmmoTruck, MotorSectionG3w74rpg, QagnosTeam, SniperwSR, then add either SU-25 plane or Rapier SAM. If you pick plane only 2 pts left, if SAM then 20 pts left to buy Conscripts68riflex2 equals all money spent. I will try another with heavy anti-air.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Hi, Here is heavy anti-air company. Strela, Misagh1, RSAK47wRPG7x3, SagheghRPGx3, OM155mmM114, Nafaz, ArtObs76, HQ, Igla1, SA-10aFavorit, BasijSection68riflex3, NaderTeam, Conscripts68rifle then if want mobile get SA-6Gainful (all money spent) or get Rapier and buy 1 more BasijSection68rifle. This has alot of anti-air assets with some RPG based lite anti-tank assault (ambush) units. Also has rifle units to protect ArtObs and a few to assault or go forward to pathfind and recon.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Sorry saw that it was supposed to be 5000pts instead of 1000pts. Could just times by 5. Or you could challenge your friend with the 1000pts. Then he could only get a few merkava or maybe only 1 and you could swarm it with your RPG infantry. I will think on a 5000pts Battalion with some mech troops with alot of anti-air and anti-tank infantry maybe some air power. He who owns the sky rules the battlefield below. As he limits your movements and his men move freely to advance. Might add a sniper section to harass if you could sneak them behind his line. SA-6 is an old Russian platform from around the 60's or 70's. The missiles can't turn within nowadays planes turn radius and are probably easily spoofed. The Iserali's get stuff from the world arms market and they don't just sit on it, they reverse engineer the item and improve on it. Ever heard of IAI (Iserali Arms Industry) owned or supported by thier government. The USA gives them alot of stuff and they buy the best the world has to offer and then make it better thats why they have good stuff. Also they have alot of chances to live test the stuff like whats happening right now with the Pals and Lebs.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Hi, This is the Battalion I came up with for 5000pts. Anti-Air:SA-10aFavoritx2, Rapierx2, Sanam-23-4SPAAx4, 35mmRadarAAAx4, 57mmRadarAAG, Type86/88SPAA, CobraAA. Anti-AirInf:Strelax4, HN-5, Misagh, RBS-70, Igla-1. Art:OM105mmM101Pl, OM155mmM114Pl, ArtObs(76)x2. AirForce:Mig29Tochka, Azarakhsh, MirageF-1E, Sukhoi-25, Sukhoi-24(177). TankCorps:Shiden, T-72M1l, T-72M. HQ, BoraghAmmox2, M113Ammox2. Anti-TankATGM:Qognos, Fagot, Ra'ad-T, Toophan. Anti-Tank:Saghegh, Nader, Nafez. Sniperw/SR(53), Sniperw/SR(7). Inf:RSM14w/M20x3, RSAK47w/RPG7x3, RSG3w/74RPGx3, PasdaranAK47w/SagheghRPGx3. MotorSectionG3w/74RPG. All points spent.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Thank's for all! I just reached a little more points in a battle against my frend, but SPMBT thought it was only a "draw", now the second one. My frend started a new battle and he chose a large city as the battleground. So I probably have better possibilities to win than earlyer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image.../firedevil.gif

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Map 71, "City on Tigris, Iraq, 160*200.

One problem while deploying 56 mm AA: If I put them on a hex with a large building, is the program clever enough to put AA on the roof or inside the building?

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

It will put them at whatever the elevation is in the hex. The game does not distinguish between ground floor or roof for any purpose.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

The war is rageing in the City on Tigris (map 71). Becouse it's a meeting engagement I was bound to mowe quickly and I needed transport vechiles and to support them armored fightting vehicles. But I have not found any way to protect them against Israelis helicopters. Becouse the city is flat and the silly game does not allow me to put AA-guns on the roofs, these my best tools have only a narrow shooting area. For the next game I desparately ask: is there any effective wepon against Israelis helicopters. Some times Rapier SAM's try to hit them but without any success. I have Sanam-23-4SPAA's which are dangerous for a helicopter but some of them have already been destroyed, so what can you do with am AA-tank wich can not defend himself?

I know there is no justice in the world in general and in the war especially. Not even in the simulated world of SPMBT http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

I've found that static AA guns are a better bet versus helicopters if you have any raised terrain at all to stick them on. AA vehicles are vulnerable to the lethal ATGM's many israeli helicopters carry, where as the static guns are not. A decent ranged AA gun can keep 'copters at arms length just by causing evasive action even if it does not hit them.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Well you are very persistent in what is very much an uphill struggle so some thoughts.
As said if possible cluttered terrain not open & despite being a meeting a slow move out till his air is dealt with if has helos is more than acceptable.
Need to fight 2 battles for the air battle your killers are RBS 70 manpads TOR-1s & 80 Range AA guns as helos have 60 vision. All other AA assets are deterents that might get lucky while these guys get in position. What you buy depends on game size if you think he might buy SEAD etc the out gessing game.
Keep TOR-1s well back & relocate often to avoid arty if vision is high with dust trails a few trucks in your arty park can make false dust trails when they move.
The AA guns consider moving some forward if terrain allows in first couple of turns.
Can use some as deterents if need when other AA moves but generally cut range down to 65-70 or even less if can risk it. Now if he leaves a helo within range you can take multiple shots in your turn rather than playing the max range dance. AAA is the one set of units its worth micromanaging ranges on to sucker people into the kill zone vs helos.
The other aproach is half a dozen mobile at least EW 5 SAMs, hit chance is not good its hard work firing relocating rearming but the odds will get them eventually.

The ground battle I would generally do low key till his air is at an acceptable level the worst problem with those helos in my view is there scouting ability if vision is below 60, start every turn by locating his helos with your radar AA so you can get an idea of what he can see otherwise any ambush is probably blown.
Your tanks are totaly ouclassed if have any armour use only to snipe at his APCs as have MGs only or for infantry support.
Your infantry do not have particulary good RPGs so gang up on tanks. Need to be able to draw fire or whatever to let you get in position from flanks rear or to assault.
Cheap APCs can help this if he leaves tanks open draw fire & then send them in as a mech assault. 2 Squads who recieve no or minimal fire should take it out normally.
Tanks are a lot easier to kill if suppressed or damaged so unload use the W key to fire your RPG. Only if it still survives assault it with your last shot once its heavily suppressed. RPG teams do not work that well in mech assaults to few shots & men to asault so use them to fire at the tank in the first place if possible. The hard thing with planing these is remember the tank could pop smoke at any time & ruin your plans.
Good luck.

Re: Israel attacking Iran next October
 

Having played Iran in a few campaigns, I don't think this is a difficult task at all, mostly becuase the Iranian stuff is so cheap.

For ~5000 points I would be somewhere like this, give or take;

Foot infantry:
6 companies Basij
12 Nader sections
+ some Snipers and Scouts to advance 4 hexes ahead.


mechanised infantry
4 scout secs
12 of the cheapest sniper unit
4 HMG teams
16 boragh apc, or maybe SKOT.

Missile troops
8 * Toophan 2 section, with 8 ammo containers, 8 apc's to carry
8 * Strela section with 8 ammo containers, maybe with apc's as well if you can't cover the advance from deploy zone.
Helicopters
1-2 sections gunship, plus ammo dump section to reload them.

Arty
9 platoons of M110, with 9 ammo dumps, one per platoon.
2 SA-6 sections, only if visibility is bad.

In an open meeting engagement, bus the scouts, snipers the HMG's, the Toophans onto high ground, only move up behind cover. sit the ATGM an HMG on the hill and march the snipers and scouts forward ahead of the HMG and ATGM position. Alternatively if you have hills in your deploy zone with good los fill them with toophan and Strela teams.

The rest move up as foot infantry.

If he advances, the Atgm's will start cooking his tanks and Apc's, and you can cut up the infantry on the ground with the HMG's, plus put the 8 inches onto the troop/tank concentrations.

If the advance keeps coming, the suppressed remainders will be ambushed by the Basij, snipers and recoiless. A platoon of Basij at 28 points will take down a Mervaka no problem, just mob it after buttoning it with the HMG, arty, or sniper. The trick is to stop moving and set the op fire range to 1, the +15 morale means they will not run when the tank runs into them. You will probably suppress it pretty bad or maybe force into retreat, then you can mob it next turn with the other three squads, or put a Nader/RPG up its ***. If it stops advancing the ATGM, gunships and arty will kill it.

If you have lots of ground to cover and adequate cover, especially hills, it may be worth using groups of 4 boraghs to bus the basij to the back of a hill, then rush back to pick more up and ferry them. Send the scouts and snipers over first as a scouting wave. If you engage any infantry, snipe them and dump the enemy with arty, then use the Basij to advance in and mop up once they are routing, and draw any fire from stragglers. Once you can see them you can snipe them.

Without exaggeration, I can say I have achieved a x100 kill rate this way, against an AI enemy at 150% troops. A real person will of course be a much bigger challenge, but it should still work okay.