What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I am visiting the Shrapnel site more times / week for many months now, but there is _STILL_ no informations about Dominions 3. How is this possible??? The game supposed to be released in 2006 Q1...I thought so at least....

Why is there no infos about Doms 3 or why no screenshots has been posted yet? Also what is the release date of the game?

Doms3
 

Well, calm down a bit...

First off, the latest official mention was here:
http://www.illwinter.com/

Second, similar to the case with SEV, I think the developers would rather spend time working on the game than updating their website... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Go look at the GalCiv2 forums. As much time as Brad spends reading and posting on the forums, I can't imagine how he gets any work done http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: I don't mean that in a bad way; I know he works really hard. I just don't understand when he sleeps.

Re: Doms3
 

I hope that while he is on the forums, not when he's working on GalCiv2 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Doms3
 

He's an AI from Shub. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

(And yes, I have GC2 - great game, but Dog, I wish they'd done a better job on UI.)

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Near as I know, there has been no announced release date for the game (any you would see is probably guesswork at best). Dominions 3 hasn't been officially announced by any publisher either, near as I can tell. I know Space Empires V, though the previous one was published by Shrapnel Games, ended up with another publisher, so you cannot be 100% sure about the future publisher.

For what we know, perhaps Illwiner will try to get the game published by, say, the Holy See. A few features might end up slightly reworked, though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

There have people been seen browsing a private DOM3 beta test board on this forum (click "who is online"), so I would say don't worry, be happy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Why the devs cant answer here at all? Doms 3 cancelled maybe? I have a bad feeling now...no real news since ages...this is not good...not good.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Dom3 has not been cancelled

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Because their busy testing and coding Dominions 3. It isn't cancelled, it's right no track.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I don't care how long it takes for DOMINIONS_3... more time means more content, stability and better game balance.

---------

HEY... Richard... your signature is way way old. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I still pray that you will be able to buy multiple castle blueprints for your nation... I don't like the current "We can build a huge city, but we are to dumb to build watchtowers" system

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

There's always "Three Red Seconds", "Living Castle", and so forth. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I agree, though. I'm hoping for (at least) two levels of castle per nation - one that can be built cheaply in one turn, offers no economic bonus, has only 50 supplies and 25 defense, and maybe improves the quality of the province defense... and the next tier, which offers full bonuses (the official national castle). Having a military fortess choice that gives new troops a +5 or +10XP bonus would be great, too, for people like me that use recruitable troops http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

The (enchanted) castles in Master of Magic were pretty cool - walls of fire, for example. But as always, there are more neat possibilities than time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Goodgood.

You know, does that "The Awekening" adds you can see around here have anything to do with the game...? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Well, I'm quite puzzled at the lack of any communication effort by IW and SG about Dom3.
This game should be SG workhorse as sales and buzz go, yet in the last 3 months we had to ask for an interview with KO (that he ans SG gently agreed on) to have news and screenshots for Cyberstratege (the french mag I write for...).
IW site is a polar desert, the latest journals should have more than 6 months, and SG don't even assure they'll publish it now (or is it a joke ?) !
Well, I suppose it's a try to get buzz through silence http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Exactly my point!! Also, if I remeber correctly the release date for doms 3. was 2006 Q1, no? Ok I can understand that a company is pushing back the release date, BUT! Months passed, I havent seen screenshots, or not even a real feature list. No news since months. Why? The devs are coding and stuff, thats ok, but they have no time to release any informations, screenshots or a planned release date? I think all fans of the game would be excited if Illwinter would release infos so the players would stop to worry that whats going on with the game.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Well everything has its pros and cons.

Illwinter is two guys with jobs and familys and lives who also happen to be programming our absolute favorite game. I cant feel right about pestering them to come here and give us a heads up also if it knocks out another item in the update list for Dom3. I guess that a second-hand post saying that they are deeply working on it in the beta will have to keep my fingers from twitching

The PR side is probably more Shrapnels thing? But since I do see them stepping in to calm us, and I do see articles appearing on the net about Dom3, then I guess something is being done. Any more would probably cost us. Any company with a stronger PR push tends to pay for it out of the sales profits somewhere so Im also not going to push to have more of that.

I could probably help abit. I have seen a number of sites that have a Dom3 page with no info other than "its coming" so maybe I will do my little bit to go there and post some excitement building comments. Im not saying that its the prefereable choice but at least its something I can do.

Gandalf Parker

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Dominions 3 is on track, in beta, with alot of effort currently going into getting marketing up and running. Shrapnel Games has a signed contract with Illwinter to publish Dominions III. With a game of this scale, we can't guarantee a release date, so we have been waiting until we are closer to completion, and can at least give a reasonably close schedule, before we announce.

Now, having said all that, look for more infromation, MAJOR information before the end of March.

Has not anyone wondered about the Awakening ads?

See you soon.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Now, that's some news. I'd just like to hear the rest of them as well... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Other than that, I don't really have much to say. There have been no news in these forums to post, unfortunately. Except that the developers have been (somewhat) more active lately - encouraging comments on mods, on certain threads, etc.
Oh, and Illwinter site isn't a polar desert - last update is "only" from the end of December. That's actually moderately active for that one... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I saw the Awakening ads and took them for an Omen! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

But...you guys really do need to be more forthcoming. The post i have quoted above is perfectly sufficient. Put up a sticky thread and have someone post "there, there, it's ok, we are making progress" every two weeks just so we are reassured.

We live in the Age of Noise, there are 15 gillion new entertainments coming out every week and ADD is epidemic.
Out of sight is out of mind. Your hardcore fans will wait, but you will lose casual customers if they check in once and don't see something. Everyone who plays these type of games has been burned by vaporware at some point, (Matrix ticked me off so badly I won't even buy their games anymore) so you need to be carefull.

Thanks for your post Tim!

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I think that if you can help generate "buzz" for the game, then do it.
Even though we would like to hope otherwise, dominions is not a strong and major title, and I think its loyal community (as is often the case with such games) is one of its prime assets. And if we can help "spread the word" in order to help such a small game, then we should.
I know I use every chance I get to tell other people about Dominions. (Sadly, I think the vast majority of people that hear about from me either don't check it out, or don't enjoy it. But that has more to do with the gaming demographic here in Israel than everything else :\)

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I've been tinkering with the idea of a website with some basic Dominions info such as nations etc. then some of the key concepts explained. This could provide some "noise" and info.

But I've been occupied with other stuff and I sort of forget HTML... =/

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

My one rant for today:

I've made dozens of attempts to get my friends to download the demo, all without any success at all... the only person I've gotten to play the game is my brother, as I actually installed the game on his computer so I could play during vacation. This is one of those games that can't be sold by graphics or a flashy website, or even by name alone (Civ IV, ahem)... just by gameplay and flavor. Maybe my friends think I'm full of it, or maybe there simply isn't enough coverage for them to believe me. I have a hard time believing that someone so disappointed in Civ IV and so into fantasy stuff like M:TG wouldn't give this game a chance. But there needs to be a critical mass of buzz to get this game out of the "elite strategy/niche" category. I never would have seen this game nor forum if I hadn't been following GoGamer specials.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I completely agree the developers/publishers should be focusing on creating a huge buzz for this game... instead it's dead silence.
Dead silence never brings as much sales as good advertising for a game. The game should have developer diaries every two months, screenshots, chat rooms with the developer answering questions to gaming fans, and brief 20MIN interviews with gaming websites. The total time investment for what I listed is only about 1_hour a month, which is small potatoes for increasing game sales. Instead of generating a hype for the upcoming game, many publishers are using a dead-silence... which only confuses/upsets the fans of the developer.

WHY the Dead-Silence?? We all wonder why... well my theory is the dead silence was placed into the contract by the publisher. The publisher is afraid some other game maker will try stealing ideas.... thus they place a "NO COMMUNICATION of any kind until 3 weeks before the games release." The publisher fails to see the negative side effects of dead silence and the game and its sales suffer in the long run.

WORD OF MOUTH is one of the main ways for a game to increase in sales... but if gamers don't hear anything they equally cannot promote the game via word of mouth. I'm sure we'll eventually hear something... let's just hope it's not too late.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Sorry, but I must disagree. Going for that much publicity would be hard, and expensive, for a game so little known as Dominions. And it would certainly take more than an hour in a month. It'd be nice to have something. However, it shouldn't be off from the actual developer time - I think we all agree on this. Thus, the "big news" must come from Shrapnel's side. They have already said that big news will appear this month.

It is pointless to discuss "what they should have done" now. It's a pity this discussion didn't appear two, three months away - we might've gotten something very juicy for Christmas, instead of the annoyingly teasing one-sentence update on the Illwinter site.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Everything I listed can take ABOUT an hour each month. Exactly where do you see LOTS of time being spent?? Each event I listed can easily be set with a fixed timeframe which totals about one hour.
Chats in a chatroom = zero cost
Screenshots to fan websites = zero cost
One developer diary every two months = 15mins... setup on a fans website is zero cost.
interviews with gaming websites = some charge and some don't

--not sure why you see these as expensive. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I agree it shouldn't cut into actual developer time, but 6 months before the games release the buzz should be started. One hour each month is small potatotes.

I strongly disagree... it's never too late to educate the developers/publishers what should have been done because in the long term it's better for everyone on future games.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Finally!!!! I cant wait to see the update! thx!


Oh Tim btw....can you tell us..will there be diplomacy in singleplayer? I really missed it in Doms 2. :-) I know that this is a real wargame but it would be a nice feature.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I think a lot of the reason the world went crazy over GalCiv 2 and Oblivion were the huge amount of pre-release exposure, and constant trickling of exciting details (even if they were the same ones that trickled the week before, and the week before that). Oblivion, of course, can't be compared since they had a multi-million dollar PR budget, a guy (Pete) that did nothing but fly around the world pimping the game at the offices of every magazine and website that would let him in the door, and a team dedicated to making content for previews. But Stardock is an indy company, and their constant info trickle (aka "hype") netted a massive community and incredible launch...

I don't know how much of this is luck, how much is due to the specific game, how much is due to being slashdotted or penny-arcaded, and how much is due to netting big interviews and previews with big-name magazines. But all together, they worked very well... since the world has been craving 4x-ish games recently. CivIV largely satisfied the Civ fans, GalCiv2 largely satisifed the Master of Orion fans, and now there are just the Master of Magic / Age of Wonders fans looking for a deep Fantasy TBS... especially when HOMMV has Starforce, and only a 50% chance of being good; and isn't quite in the same genre.

Maybe Dominions 3 can fill the void and become huge, with enough hype. Making one of these purported beta testers into a liason for the forum might allow limited dissemination without interrupting busy people who are doing real work. As for netting magazine interviews and previews... I don't really know the process for that, but it would be great if it happened http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

To quote Dijkstra: "That was back when I still believed the success of a product had some relation to its quality." (<-with regards to the IBM 360)
Good products fail without hype.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

For French people, there are an interview and an article about DomIII in the cybertratège magazine. There are some screenshots.
http://www.cyberstratege.com/

For the infos, they talk about:
*subterrean races and castle
*the system of era
*the random map generator
*the awakening system (the pretendant can be in sleep at the start of the game)
*better IA (more castle construction)
*lesser powerful drain life
*lesser "micro-gestion"

(sorry for the bad english)

edit for Dominionsfan: in the interview, they clearly say no diplomatie for the moment

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Neat, a magazine that takes hardcore strategy seriously! Thanks for the translation.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I see!! Can you post these screenshots? I must see them! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

DominionsFan: I'm not sure it's totally legal... But you can't have this magazie so...
Wait a couple of minutes.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif ... sure you can post the scans its legal, ive seen pcgamer scans etc on many sites before..

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

here the 2 pages in the zip http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

OMG, I'm spasming from excitement.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Thank you!!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Okay, let's see.

- It seems that there's more variation on battle terrain
- I don't think I regonize some of the units in the uppermost pic...is that a new graphic for the web effect?
- The UI looks like Dom II one with Dom I graphics! Yummy!
- It also appears that dominion can now seen more easily
- The graphics looks neater, and it seems you can see army strenght new way on the map
- I don't regonize the nation but it sorta looks some sort of underground Atlantis. O_o

EDIT: Any idea on the amount of new stuff...?

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

There are 1500 units (Dom2: 1000), more specific nation spells, 20 nations by era ( 3 era).

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Oooh, neat, very neat. Thanks for the info, Tyrian!

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I do click the "Awakening" ad once in a while to see if its linked to any new PR release. Same with that "Dare to Dream" ad.

Im not completely sure how much we COULD be given at this point. Its a common thing with games in beta testing. Maybe some tidbits on items that are put in and seem stable enough to make it thru all of the testing. But release date, nations, new spells, specific features, all of that would be in the testing phase now and VERY susceptable to change. There are dangers involved with making "official" statements about stuff like that.

We see a new nation but what if there is still copyright searches that have to be done on the name of the nation and certain units etc etc. Ive seen that in other betas where things in the beta had to be renamed or taken out. And any beta that doesnt move the release date isnt a very good beta testing. Who amoung us doesnt feel that they could add something to that? We will just have to keep reminding them to drop us some "we are still here" notes once in awhile. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyway, much thanks to Shrapnel and the developers for keeping an eye on us. Hopefully that means that the conversations about Dom2 bugs and wishlists are being revisited. Has anyone boiled those down into quicky-lists lately?

Gandalf Parker

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I will make a mod for doms 3 for sure, mostly unit and terrain gfx. I am very good in it.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

I think that the devs should focus on Doms 3 with all power now, fixing the Doms 2 bugs -> implent those fixes in Doms 3, like the AI fixes and so on. :-) .. btw I am very happy that IW is fixing the AI [we know that they gonna fix castle building at this point].

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

By the way, for Dom2 I provided space for many of us on my server to aid in supporting the game as did a number of other people. The www.dom2minions.com is abit old and not very impressive but it supported the private directories and emails for a number of people here. And hosted a nubmer of their MP games too.

I also have www.Dom3Minions.com registered (for a year now) but dont have much to put there yet http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It will be moving to a massively upgraded server next week in preparation for the new load Im expecting to hit it when we get Dom3 things to put up.

Just thought Id mention that in case someone wants to support the game with webpages or files, but not quite eager to put up a domain for it.

You can reach me as gandalf on the dom2minions.com server, or PM me here if you have any questions on that.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Nice :-)

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

My lovely, intelligent, computer-game-playing wife Lace has generously translated the first page of the article Tyrian posted. The second page is illegible. Her French is a little rusty, but she's gotten the main points.

[The first question and answer boil down to "Why another Dom?" "It's fun and the fan support has inspired us."]

Cyber: Can you tell us quickly what are the main changes and innovations of Dom3?

KO: Dom3 will be called "The Awakening".

Cyber: Awakening?

KO: When you make your pretender, it will be asleep, imprisoned by the previous Almighty. With the departure of this predecessor, the demigods and spirits of the world awaken to take its place. When you define your pretender, you chose if you god is also awakened or if it's still asleep [at the beginning of the game?].

The game allows new pretenders, new kinds of objects, and around 1,500 units (Editor: vs. 1,000 in Dom2). The new magics are specific to certain nations. There will be a generator for random maps which gives pretty maps with chains of mountains and special sites. Some nations will now have their cities underground. The mods will be easier to make, and more elements of the game will be modifible: the nations, the recruitment lists, the effects of dominion, etc.

The graphics will be better with prettier battlefields. The AI will be able to build forts. Supercombatants have been weakened, or rather, drain life has been. The economy is more generous, to allow maintainance of larger armies. We have also tried to reduce micromanagement and make the interface more accessible.

Cyber: We'd like you to tell us about the new nations, and the concept of "eras" that replace the themes of Dom2. What are these new concepts, and how do these eras work?

The nations and themes have been remade and organized in three eras. The first era is the most mythological, with weaker technology and richer magic. The themes of the old nations have been organized in these eras. For example, Jotunheim has been transformed into three nations: Niefelhiem, Jotunheim, and Utgaard. Not a big change there. But other nations don't exist in all eras: Marignon doesn't emerge until the intermedia era. Another nation called Maverni could be considered its predcessor. The Maverni are a nation of scheming tribes of druids and vergobrets (editor: Gallic chiefs!). This nation is inspired by the Celts, as described in Caesar's _Commentaries on the Gallic War_. First era Ermor is not at all what it has developed into [in later eras]: it's a nation before its fall, with pontifs, flammen, and augurers. (editor: Roman priests and diviners). There are also nations inspired by the history, myths, and folklore [illegible] Japanese or Hindus. We presently envision twenty nations for each era.


----

Merci beaucoup a Tyrian pour la texte originale, et les apologies pour le Francais pauvre de Lace. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif (Many thanks to Tyrian for the original text, and apologies for Lace's poor French.)

Also thanks to Tim Brooks for the tantalizing tidbit! That really helps keep my interest up for Dom3.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Thx for the translation Evil Dave! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

i LOVE you lace http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif but seriously thanks a bunch for translating that

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Wow. 20 nations for each era? That is crazy. 500 additional units....thats potentially a lot of new nations.

It seems though that now themes are going to be seperated into full fledged nations, which is cool. I wonder how that is going to work for MP? Are games going to be decided based on era? The sense I got however was that era would define which way a nation leaned on the magic scale. Does anyone have any more detail on this area?

As for buzz. Buzz is created in a couple ways. By the press, and by word of mouth. Word of mouth however is fed by a number of sources, but the biggest is probably printed and online media. There are some pretty big dominions fans at CGW and I am pretty sure I remember reading positive comments in PCG as well. There are a couple different preview phases that are in each magazine.

On a related note, when did the Ads first start appearing in magazines? Ad campaigns can start up to a year before release however (longer if the game gets delayed). But it is a good sign that the release is getting closer.

PS. I thought it was funny, the French Magazine linked in this thread has a forum. On that forum is a Dom III thread, much like this one from what I gathered. In that thread, they link to this thread. Its a small world after all. =)

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

Thanks for the translation. Intresting stuff.

Re: What the hell is up with Dominions 3???
 

The thing I was wondering about is, why had Shrapnel not officially announced its involvement in Dominions III? While a full blown section may not be feasible at the moment, a mention in a press release (or the Release Schedule) would have been enough to make sure that Dominions III *is* going to be a Shrapnel game (alternatively, a post on the forums like Tim's below, or a mention at Illwinter's site). Or did I miss an official announcement from Shrapnel prior to this thread?

I know I care quite a lot about the publishing part, even more than about the developers for sequels. It was Shrapnel's publishing Dominions II that made me hear about the game again (even though I already knew the game), and a change in publishers could have made me drop Dominions altogether. And of course, the publishing area should never be taken for granted: Stars Supernova comes to mind here.

With Shrapnel's involvement in the game officially known, I will sleep tight now; additional information can always come from Illwinter or third party websites. Then again, perhaps I'm in the minority who actually cares about who the publisher is, and who will drop a game solely because it is published by, say, [Insert your most disliked publisher here] (Ubisoft, EA, you name them).