Why not jet AOPs?
 

This might have been addressed before, and its stated in the manual, but I'm curious as to why there seems to be the stipulation of no jets as FO aircraft. What's the reasoning, since it has and does happen?

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Do you really have jet recon aircraft flying the same kind of AOP sorties as the light grasshoppers and UAVs in the game?

From what I've understood from the manual and the various discussions on that subject, jet recon planes generally fly high-altitude, straight-on spotting missions, not exactly on top of the objective, but rather tens of miles on one side.
Furthermore, until very recently or the near future, the data from a recon plane always has to be extracted and interpreted once the plane is back from its mission, and that's somethign that involves more time and a much higher tier of field intelligence than available in the game.

Just my 2c, probably best to let the designers have their say about that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

The observation aircraft is a slow propellor driven plane, which makes several small circles over the point of interest. Therefore - it will do for an RPV in later years as well.

It represents a small observation aircraft with direct radio contact with the battlegroup, or an RPV with a control truck at battle group HQ.

Jets do not make small circles over the battlefield, nor do they emit propellor noises while doing so, and the speeds allowed for RPV/OP planes are too low for jets also.

Jet recce aircraft are typically theatre level assets, and do not inject data to the battle group HQ level. Rather the results are taken at theatre (wheter by datalink or by developing the photographs) and filtered down as part of the integrated intel reports. In other words, if the thing spots units - you should not get the "instant" report that the observation plane/RPF gives you, it would be highly unrealistic. Jets also do faster speeds that prop jobs - this affects AAA fire.

It would also be silly to use a helo icon as an "observation plane", as the light helo class already exists for this purpose, and is completely under player control (can land or hover, may be able to carry small scout parties etc).

Cheers
Andy

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

I never figured out how you use the propeller planes to call fire. Do you just select them and then go to the bombardment menu to call artillery for it?

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Who said anything about spotter planes being able to call indirect fires?.

They are there to perform recce (spotting) missions. That is all. They are not on-map under your control ever - so how could they be used as FO units on the bombardment menu?.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

This is basically what I thought the reasiong was, and it does make a lot of sense. Its not true historically though. I'm also not talking about jet recon aircraft, but rather jet observation aircraft. The OA-10 was operated specifically in this role, flying low, operating in the FAC capacity.

During the Vietnam War, a transitional period between guided and unguided munitions, electronic countermeasures and a lack thereof, and of sophisticated optical systems and human eyes, the "Fast FAC" was operated to provide perhaps shoddier actual recon, but to be safer than O-1s and O-2s for instance operating in the same capacity. The USMC used TA-4Js and other aircraft in this capacity to make up for the blatant shortcomings of the O-1E Bird Dog against even the least sophisticated AAA.

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Why not jet AOPs? Because you don't have the rank to call them in. The Mirages fly out of Onandagua and the photointerp is done there, or in Windhoek. By the time it gets to you, the pics are several hours old, and the tac data is out of date. The IIIRZs are for finding out if the Cubans are coming and in what general direction. Then, you call in your Kudus for a close look. Occasionally an AOP will call in a strike mission, but that's usually done by a ground FAC or the OC in a helo.

troopie

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

I'm not talking about jet recon aircraft, where an internal camera is clicking away and the data is of poor tactical value to commanders on the ground during a battle. I'm talking about jet aircraft used in the FAC capacity and other real-time tactical observation roles, which has and does happen.

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

And jet aircraft belong to the Air Farce, and are in any case not slow propellor driven observation planes like an Auster or Piper Cub, or RPV.

In the OOBS - early observation planes are Auster type things, and then in later obs, they are replaced by RPV.

Jet observation planes are not catered for.

(you could try making one with the coin strike plane, arm with loads of MG and a high value for the strike runs, and give it an X3 radio code for humans only - copy an existing type as a basis ?)

Cheers
Andy

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

What happens then when you set an AOP to a high speed, say 8 or 9 then? Doesn't this also effect the plane's defenses as well as the widening of the circles it flys around the target?

The real problem is that forces like the US for instance have long made use of jet FAC and observation for reasons of survivability and now for reasons of not wishing to retain aircraft like the OV-10 or O-2 which are extremely vulnerable in today's AAA enviornment.

A COIN strike plan with no weapons and accurate vision is an idea, but the problem is still that the path of strike aircraft does not really give them the ability to spot units, and this capability is further reduced as the plane's speed increases.

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Been there done that. No matter what speed you put in the plane always emits a propeller noise.

As to the Coin Plane with no weapons, then you can't call it in as you need a weapon to bombard the HEX with HE...

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Well I could care less about the noise if it functions properly. An inaccurate sound is something that people can deal with. I'm just curious as to whether or not the issue is with the code preventing the plane from functioning like a jet in game terms.

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

There is a deliberate max speed of 3 or maybe 4 (cannot recall) enforced to ensure a) propellor speeds used and b) since as the speed increases, the circle size increases as well. If the circle gets too large, then the spotter plane would tend to fall off the edge of maps..

The spotter plane code is as it is, and it will not be changing.

Spotter panes represent propellor driven light aircraft, or RPV.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Why not jet AOPs?
 

Okay, that's basically what I was asking. Thanks. So basically its not a matter of realism in terms of historical accuracy, but realism in terms of how the unit is coded.