Modding questions
 

1) Is there any known way to get the Crew Quarters effect to stack? I.e. I place the Crew Quarters ability on one component and now it counts for meeting two Crew Quarters requirement.

2) Does “Reduced Maintenance Cost - System” ability stack? If so is there a way to restrict this?

Re: Modding questions
 

I'm sure only the best value in the system for that maintenance reduction works. Otherwise crystalline races would be clearly superior to anything else, with massively negative maintenance costs in their homesystems after a year.

There is no way as far as I know to double the ability amount.
However, you COULD make a mount which reduces the component to half size and half cost. That would serve much the same purpose.
Also, you can add the crew quarters ability to a custom bridge for -1 to CQ requirements.

Having combination LS/CQ components is also good, but it is tough for AIs to use.

Re: Modding questions
 

Thought about the mount idea but that won’t work as both must be the same size and a combined LS/CQ is not in the game plan.

Re: Modding questions
 

Why exactly do CQ need to be the same size as LS?

Perhaps if you expanded on what you are trying to do in context, we could suggest completely new ideas, too.

Re: Modding questions
 

Oh and one more modding question. Is there a way to let small craft transit warp points? I know there was not a method to do this before; however, “before” for me is version 1.7x.

As for CQ and LS being the same size I am not sure where that came from. The question was to make a component that could do double CQ duty. LS is a completely separate unit. Here is what I am trying to do though:

There is 1 type of LS which I have included and is size 10kt and cost 25; don’t worry about the economic unit but the integer price is relevant so I must list it for you.

There is 1 type of CQ which I the question revolves around (obviously it is not included yet) and is supposed to do double duty and is 10kt at cost 5.

Put them together and you have 1 LS and the equivalent of 2 CQ at 20kt and cost 30.

You also have 1 CQ/LS component at 10kt cost 15.

It may sound like you would always want to buy the combined cheaper unit that does both; however, as ships get larger the combined unit is not cost or space effective.

For example on a 22 hull space frigate you could use the combined unit for 10kt at cost 15. On something like a 130 hull space Dreadnaught you would need 5 combined units for 50kt at cost 75. The single unit LS and double duty CQ by comparison would be 1 LS and 3 CQ for 30kt at cost 35.

So a double duty CQ can support 50 hull spaces and 1 LS can support 5 double duty CQ’s. A combined LS/CQ can only support 25 hull spaces of crew.

Confused yet? See you in the morning…

Re: Modding questions
 

Ok, then.

The main idea is that lifesupport requirements are nearly flat-rate, and CQ goes up fast.

If you are focussed on the cost, and are not worried about taking damage and having the backup CQs work, then how about this:
Have two components. Crew Option A, and Crew Option B.
Use mounts to make these two options whatever size and cost is needed for each hull.
Players pick either A for your combo-LS/CQ, or B for the Divvied up LS/CQ

Re: Modding questions
 

I am not following what you are saying SJ could you please go into a little more detail?

I would like the cost and size to stay constant (values are in the post below). And with this next line I am going to reverse what I just said; keep in mind the key word is “like”. An idea I have been toying with is adjusting one of the variables; meaning adjust the cost of the CQ/CQ and CQ/LS so the CQ/CQ becomes more attractive as hulls get bigger. This should be no problem because the CQ/CQ will take less space. That’s option one. Option two is to adjust the size of the CQ/LS and/or CQ/CQ. In either option the stand alone LS stays unchanged.

I have not thought this out to any sort of a conclusion, there are still many more components to add and that is where my focus is now.

How about the second question I added. As of version 1.78 Gold no small craft could transit a warp point. Has this been changed since then or is this restriction still in effect. If it is I know how to get around it; however, it will mean the craft I want to make will be counted as a ship and you can’t land a ship in a hanger bay.

Re: Modding questions
 

You want to make fighters that warp, or ships that can go into cargo? That's not possible in SE4, but might be in SE5, if what Aaron promised us a while back about custom vehicle types still holds true...

Re: Modding questions
 

I want to create a fighter that can warp. I didn’t think was possible but with all the patches that have come out since I last played I thought it was worth asking. I am glad to hear that it may be possible in SE5; that was one f the items I put on the wish list in the Tell Aaron what you want thread. I see that has become a sticky. Man it was nowhere near 155 pages when I was last here. Kind of scary if you ask me and that is also the reason why I have not tried to read through all of it yet.

Re: Modding questions
 

Ok, the idea is to make a SEP component and a CMB component, both of which will include both lifesupport and crew quarter ability.

For the frigate, you make a mount, which changes the sizes and costs to:
CMB - 10size/15cost
SEP - 20size/30cost

On the dread:
CMB - 50size/75cost
SEP - 30size/35cost

Overall, it kind of begs the question of why you really need to bother with offering the choice. For any one hull, there will be an optimum choice.

Re: Modding questions
 

I see where you are going now. To implement this I would have to create the two like this or I would deviate from the original layout so much the two would become new elements. I don’t want to do this which is why I have made the CQ and LS both stand alone and assigned the required crew quarters for ships on math using the CQ/CQ. In other words once you read the below I divided all hull sizes by 500kT for crew quarters needed then took that result and divided by 5 for life support needed.

First this is how I would have to make the two you laid out in the example:
CMB = 10 size and 15 cost
SEP = 60 size and 45 cost.

I think I made an error below or maybe need to flesh out the three (LS/CQ and CQ/CQ and LS) a little more. Keep in mind that every 10kT of ship are used to calculate life support and crew quarters, even things like armor must be counted.

LS/CQ = provides life support AND crew quarters for every 250kT of ship at a cost of 15 and size of 10kT. So this does not need the stand alone LS described below.

CQ/CQ = provides crew quarters for every 500kT of ship at a cost of 5 and size of 10kT. This needs the stand alone LS described next.

LS = this is a stand alone LS that provides LS for every 5 CQ/CQ on the ship at a cost of 20 and a size of 10kT. So if you have 4 CQ/CQ you only need 1 LS; however, if you have 8 CQ/CQ you need 2 LS (8/5 = 2 drop fractions.)

So the smallest ship (70kT) would only need a single LS/CQ to meet the requirements; however, the largest ship (5,000kT) which is 16 steps up the ladder would either need 20 LS/CQ or 10 CQ/CQ and 2 LS. Now that does not even touch on the largest hull which is a base (7,500kT).

The base only counts if I don’t include the mother of all units, an asteroid fortress at 10,000kT). Before I could do that mother I would have to figure out a way to restrict its construction to only systems which have asteroids. And I don’t see how that can be done!

Finally you brought up the point that there should only be one optimal choice? Not so true and here is why:

1) If I use the 20 LS/CQ on the largest hull (in the example above) I will spend 300 and use 200kT; however, all 20 systems will need to be destroyed before I suffer any penalties.

2) If I use the 10 CQ/CQ and 2 LS choice I will spend 70 and use 70kT of space. Now the enemy only needs to knock out my 2 LS on the master of my fleet.

When I play I always use choice 2 and most everyone else I know does this also. I have meet plenty of people who take choice 1 though as they feel it is dumb to suffer for the loss of two components on a behemoth that cost so much and took so long to build in the first place and losing 200kT out of 5,000 isn’t that high a price to pay for the added security.

Re: Modding questions
 

As I said earlier:
If you are focussed on the cost, and are not worried about taking damage and having the backup CQs work, then how about this...

Still, it sounds like you could get away with simply using the half-size CQs.
There will be a little bit of rounding error, in whether your need 3 halves instead of 2 whole ones, but that is a minor issue.
And CQ's will never be your weak point for damage anyways.

Re: Modding questions
 

I see what you are saying SJ but same as before I am not sure where the cost comes into play? Why does it appear to you that I am focused on cost? I get the feeling we are not on the same sheet of music so to speak. I am trying to preserve as much as possible of hte source game feel. If you are saying that because I need to compromise on some point than I would think cost would be the first thing to get changed.

Is it because I mentioned the unit of purchase is important? If this is the case it was not because I want to keep fixed costs, it was to help explain the difference between the two. Specifically that the combined unit (LS/CQ) is a more economical choice for some hulls but not for all of them; although it is still a valid choice.

As for damage it is true they will not be my weak point per say; however, when you lose CQ or LS your ship gets an automatic penalty to combat. So with that the idea some players use is that I do not want to have a penalty for something I can avoid happening to the ship altogether. SE4 has an equivalent system even if the post combat penalty is not as harsh.

Re: Modding questions
 

As I said before I do not agree with this line of thinking. My thoughts are that IF a ship this big is getting pounded that BAD I need not worry about life support and where the crew sleeps. I need to start thinking about building a lot more coffins and training the next crop of sailors!

So my point is I am concerned about taking away freedom of choice from the player. The game is designed to make either option valid and provide advantages and drawbacks to both. If I must decide I will stick with what I have built into the mod already; one CQ and one LS to do it all.