OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I just read The DaVinci Code, picked up in paperback for my wife to read while she recovered from delivering baby #2 (Emma Marie, 6#13oz, 3 May 2006). I enjoyed it, and would give it an 7/10.

It lays its foundations pretty well and it was a "popcorn" read, as I am also in the middle of Kagan's Peloponnesian War and Better for all the World by Bruinus (about eugenics in America at the start of the 20th century).

It definitely cleansed the palate, the characters jump in and out of one action sequence after another. There's a bit of a twist at the end.

Of more concern to Catholicism and Christianity in general is the content of Brown's discussion, for the majority of the book.

I won't go into specifics and spoil it for anyone who may want to read it or see the movie, but sufficed to say he redeems it near the end (twice) for stalwart believers stating essentially that faith is faith in the face of opposing evidence.

Anyway, an enjoyable romp with other true and untrue statements woven together to make a tapestry of a fun afternoon or two.

And, of course, written across the facade - FICTION.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

From Dan Brown
http://www.danbrown.com/novels/davinci_code/faqs.html

From Jim Kenney
http://www.cg.org/forms/THE%20DA%20VINCI%20CODE.pdf

Anyway, I am laying this to rest. I won't post again on this (I promise, unless goaded). Just thought it was an interesting read.

Again, fictional, so the author takes liberty with facts.

If it had been John F. Kennedy, people wouldn't have been so uptight. Umm... Nix that http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

The Kennedy Code?

Probably less people reading it too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Isn't faith faith because of the supporting evidence? I've never met anyone who had faith in anything if it hasn't been backed up by material evidence or personal experience. That's not to say that the physical evidence or the personal experience can't be wrong, but it's still there.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Faith is faith because it is based on anecdotal evidence, but not the overwhelming empirical evidence and analytical support required to call something a simple fact, rather than a matter of faith. So yes, faith is based on evidence, and no, faith is not based on evidence. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

This is of course answered differently by different people. For adherents to Fideism, though, evidence and 'reasons' mean nothing for faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fideism

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Faith: firm belief in something for which there is no proof.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Faith is a belief in something which is not seen, which is true.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I've read this book - VERY, VERY GOOD !!!

Afterwards it inspired me to do some online research of my own, just out of the sake of curiousity. I was actually surprised by the number of REAL, CREDITABLE scientific endeavors to prove these connections, and the number of solid historically accurate links they connected because of that research. And interestingly enough, the number of attempts to not dispute, but block or stop, these efforts by both the Vatican and the Opus Dei. Opus Dei was actually ordered OUT of Morocco because of their actions.

Kind makes you wonder.....

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

My question about the whole so-called "DaVinci Code" is...who really cares? I surely don't! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Then why even bother to reply?

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

A good point my friend, a good point.

Guess I just felt like being contrary, which I'm surprisingly good at from time to time http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Just a quick note - I wasn't being sarcastic, simply curious.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Curiosity or sarcasm, the answer would probably have been the same either way http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Since I do, from time to time, feel a little grumpy and can express it in a number of ways, one of which being somewhat obnoxious posts! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Can't we all, amigo, can't we all.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I'd be interested in your results if you still have them. I have heard that the book only contains 3 things that are accurate:

1. Paris is in France.
2. London is in England
3. Jesus Christ walked this earth.

I'm sure that's the extreme view either way but I would be interested in your findings nonetheless.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Some of the objections to the "history" in the book and movie are covered here:

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/news/ar.../22davinci.htm

Personally I doubt the movie has any more historical fact than the Indiana Jones movies, but as pure entertainment it may well be worth a Netflix slot.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Perhaps not unexpected, but the early ratings on rottentomatoes.com show the movie as 0 for 7 thus far. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I think that one of the most fundemental points here, despite all the controversy, is getting lost.

This is, and has been billed as, a work of FICTION. A work of fiction based on researched, documented, debated, and disputed facts. The church stands of one side, swearing it's all lies. Some scholars and scientists have stood on the other and defended their findings.

And, through it all, Dan Brown and Ron Howard have made no bones about this being anything other than a work of fiction.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

What, exactly, are they *claiming?

* Calling it fiction sounds like a convenient excuse so they don't have to defend their claims, to me.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif That's the point here: What EXACTLY have you ACTUALLY heard publically, from either Dan Brown or Ron Howard ???

There's a ton of controversy, speculation, and commentary out there right now, but little if any word from the specific sources of it all. And the book WAS published as a work of fiction http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Dan Brown based that fiction on ideas both popular and unpopular, true enough. The part that sends me rolling to the floor is how EVERYBODY is making such a big deal over a novel that NEVER stated, absolutely & definitively, that it was a work of historical, social, or scientific fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Wasn't there a claim by Dan Brown, in the opening of the book, saying something along the lines of "all the documents presented therein are accurate"? That certainly isn't verbatim quoting, of course, as I've never got anywhere near the English version.

That claim alone sounds more like a marketing ploy than something else, but I have always found it odd, given some of the material presented in the book (say, I don't live in Paris, but I'm not sure I would go around town the way his characters does... unless I'm the sort of chap who goes through the Bronx to go from one end to Fifth Avenue to the other).

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

This complete lack of real geographical knowledge is the same sort of thing that has been found in the Gospels and led some people to doubt that the story is real. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And this whole controversy reminds me of the Satanic Verses dust-up. Some scribbler writes a bad story based on some scraps of information about the history of his religion and a bunch of religious fanatics have a conniption.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

"All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate." - from The Da Vinci Code novel.

Also, from the the article I cited in my earlier post:

"Although [the author] declines interviews now, he told National Public Radio during a 2003 publicity tour that the book's characters and action are fictional but that 'the ancient history, the secret documents, the rituals, all of this is factual.' He also told CNN at that time that 'the background is all true.'"

However, according to this article

http://www.aboutbibleprophecy.com/davinci.htm

"As for Brown's claim about the Dead Sea Scrolls - these scrolls were found in 1947, not in the 1950s as Brown mistakenly claims on page 234 of The Da Vinci Code."

This and other sources point out a number of historical errors in the novel.

Whether deliberate or unintentional, the mixing of real historical figures and events with fictitious "facts" is a shrewd marketing move. The genuine history lends the book an air of authenticity ("Hey, the Emperor Constantine and the Council of Nicea were REAL!"), but the author can always take cover behind the "fiction" label ("So what if the 'Gospel of Philip' isn't really in the Dead Sea Scrolls! It's FICTION!").

Unfortunately Dan Brown didn't explicitly distinguish fact from fiction from speculation (probably because it would hurt sales), so confused readers have to get the truth elsewhere.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

So, first he claims that it's all accurate. Then he claims it's a work of fiction.

Sorry, no wiggle room.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Some authors go to great lengths to write novels that can be claimed historically accurate. This doesn't appear to be one of them, even though there's little doubt that Brown did do some homework. At any rate, it does make a good story, and I don't see why it should be taken as anything more than that.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Because some people are taking it as more than that, like a BC newspaper, which made a big deal out of 17% percent of respodants not believing that Jesus did exist. It was a very atheist, very aggressive, several-page article, on the 'success' of the book on 'debunking' Christianity.

So it's *ME* that's kicking up a fuss? Stopping now, else I'll say something I won't regret.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Hmmmmmm.................


And all for a work of fiction.....

I'd love to be Dan Brown as this point. All this controversy has his books flying off the shelf ($$$$$), with curious minds all over the place trying to see what the chaos is all about.


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Controversy always piques people's interests. It's stupid, but that's how it is.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I suggest this thread be locked. Nothing productive has come of it.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Was anything specific ever supposed too ??? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif


http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

No, and that's a bad combination with such a violotile subject.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

All in all, it's just a well told story. I read the book myself, and while it does touch a number of interesting and touchy ideas in a clever way, it's still just a work of fiction.

I would actually recommend it as a great read to anyone, so long as you keep in mind what it REALLY is.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I am aware that it is just a story; however, not everybody seems to be. Recall my post about that newspaper story?

Plus, of course, the author claiming it is 'completly accurate' is just less-than-harmless provocation.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

I think the greatest problem with this issue was various groups condemning it. That just made more people curious about what was being condemned, when if nothing had been said about it, they never would have given it a second glance. Public condemnation of a book/movie or controversy of any sort serve to just draw more attention to the subject of condemnation and lines the pockets of the authers even more.

In a case like this, those who don't like it would have been better off leaving it entirely alone, and not making a fuss. That's the best way to kill something you don't like; ignore it.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

"All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret rituals in this novel are accurate."

The quote is from the book. The italics are mine.

Several years ago I read "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" (I think that was the title), which is one of many books that discuss the theory that Brown incorporated into his novel. Based on what I know about history (a great deal), and the history of the Catholic Church I grew up in, I think that theory has a great deal going for it.

But whatever one thinks of it, it's all a matter of faith. What one believes is a very personal thing, a very private thing.

My mother wants nothing to do with Brown's novel. I'm about halfway finished with it and find it to be a great story.

Re: OT - Finished \"The DaVinci Code\"
 

Actually, as a note, I'm not completly sure what's in it. I've just been annoyed by the intentionally contraversial nature of it and the hype surounding it.

Actually, one of the things I've heard is that it claims that Jesus and Mary Magdaline(sp?) were married - And given LDS beliefs, Jesus being married makes sense to us.

I just take a dislike to people who stir up trouble, and my first glimpse of public opinion about the book was a definite and provocative attempt to stir up trouble. I've sort of carried that bad mood around from that.