Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

So, are 'trick' spells like False Fetters, Bonds of Fire, Rage and such viable in a serious game of Dominions II?

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

I have seen a Nataraja start killing my own units thanks to Rage. I didn't notice him being affected by it in the beginning, when there were enemy units around him, but when he started going for my archers... For a spell affecting only one unit, it can slow down or hurt surpisingly many units.

Those spells have their uses, but only in spesific cases. As an example, a strong enemy force can be slowed down, so that e.g. only few of the 15 knights reach your units in the first wave, and are massacred before the next few get to your units.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Not only are they weak, they are short range. That's an impossible double-whammy, and I'd never use them. Consider a level 2 (+ Phoenix Power, level 3) fire mage:

1) Killing 6/20 knights at range 40, at cost 20 fatigue.
2) Briefly immobilizing 6/20 knights at range 25, at cost 30 fatigue.

Notice how one of them is dumb... This goes for most of the other spells, too. The non-lethal spells need to have (some of) a substantially lower fatigue cost, greater range, greater precision, and greater area than lethal spells to be viable, and they don't.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Some of them are more precise though, and that's nice.

But yeah, I don't know if 'nice' is enough. I've seen a Knight charge get foiled by Rage spam, but there could have been better ways to spend the research. Maybe.

Some of them like Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists have path requirements that aren't very easy to meet, too.

Blind spam is kinda diffrent, but the range is very short.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

blind rocks in arena though (my f1 sage blinded a wyrm in CoW http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) rage could be very useful vrs a group of thugs if they all started fighting eachother.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

I always thought of Suplhur Haze and Freezing Mists as damage spells. Do you mean that all cloud spells are 'trick' spells as well?
Weird path combination doesn't make a spell a 'trick' spell. Only Tien Chi/Atlantis/Arcos get Acid (Water/Fire) with randoms in most games, Magma (earth/fire) is rare except on Ulm, Nether Darts is the only Astral/Death combination spell with Nether Dart, but this doesn't make these spells any weaker.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Some are better used by solo mages or pretenders or in arena. Ot a mage surrounded by sword fodder.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Well, they do neglible damage and their main purpose is to poison/numb the enemies there. FYI, I consider stuff like Combustion trick spells too.

Combustion spam is fun, too. 'Fun', maybe not effective.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Combustion is a weak spell, although AoE version would be quite useful against creatures vulnerable to Fire (Vine men/ogres). However, AoE Poison is very, VERY powerful. One turn in the fog will hurt any mortal creatures badly, and two turns will probably kill them. The constant damage is bad for morale, might cause afflictions, and of course, dead Vanir or even cavalry are very expensive to replace.

All cloud-type spells aren't useful. Some are worthless. However, if by "trick" spell you mean spells which inhibit the creature some way without causing (much) damage or severe status changes, Sulphur Haze doesn't belong into that list.
Being aflame, numb, slowed, unable to move until (something), unable to attack etc are weak abilities. Poison is not. I'd like to see all of the above having greater AoE. However, Sulphur Haze is already useful for those able to use it.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Poison is still not immediatedly deadly to your run the mill militia like a close-up meet with Flare would be, so my classication stays. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

I might have to use SH more, but from what I remember the cloud did 1 point of damage and gave weak poisoning...I'm not saying that is useless.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Sulphur Haze is level 2 Evocation with AoE of 4+. It is very useful against big groups, especially if your units can hold them back without suffering too much. Undead are ideal, of course, being immune to poison.

Of course, the fact that it is Evoc 2 means that better spells replace it very quickly.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Nether bolt/ darts is NOT the only astral/death.
there is eater of the dead, and soul drain (an awesome, but kinda difficult spell).

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

That's true. I was thinking of combat spells, and forgot about remember Soul Drain. I don't think Evocation has any more, and the only other summons (besides Eater of the Dead) I can think of are Nether Gate and Vengeance of the Dead. The latter isn't really a summon spell, though.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

as for general trick spells how about the pangaean spell songs? tune of growth is ok and a few casters of tune of dancing death (backed by a few minos to clean up) could be deadly.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

It depends on what they hit. I've stopped super-combattants in their tracks with Tangle Vines. Not resisted by MR, and wastes a turn of theirs regardless of their Strength. As long as you can keep casting it on them, they will be inactive. Now, if it just lands on a soulless or maenad or something, you'd rather have hit them with a damage effect.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

but the fact that the n1 sage you just recruited can cast an AoE15 (albiet with no range iirc) with the tangle vine effect thats good.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Well, there is technically Nether Bolt. For the research-impaired. Such as undead Ermor. Both Soul Gate and Ashen Empire have good access to astral/death, but extremely slow research, and both have better schools to research than Evocation.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif We are running in circles in here. I mentioned Nether Bolt in my original post!

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

Oops.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

I never used it much but now that i consider it at least Rage seems a really nice spell for anti-SC duty.

Imagine you want a f9 bless and you have a phönix pretender. In friendly dominion you could then use the phönix as a suicide rager http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif.
Unfortunately there are no summonable immortal fire mages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif.
If there were this spell would be extremely cool.

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

But Boron, you have not been playing Dominions for half a year?

Re: Are \'trick\' spells viable?
 

and that phoenix could have a mega fire shield.