What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

I took Organic for the first time in a long game and I'm a bit ticked. What is the point!?! It takes a ton of extra RP to even start and then the weapon techs all suck... I finally got the "Hyper Plasma Bolt" after thousands and thousands of research points and it blows compared to the Phased Polaron Beams... and I could have had them four times over by this point.... The weapons all seem pretty generic - especially when you figure in that any Racial Tech also costs at least 1500 points. Anyone else feel this way - or am I missing something???

Jason2

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Organic rocks!

Think about it... you get to research a variety of weapons in just one catagory... both missiles and direct fire! Plasma bolts do suck, but Enveloping Acid Globules are one of the best weapons in the game. Furthermore, the electic discharge weapons are great for lighter attack ships and the SMALL Version is the best weapon possible for fighters! (Ok, their tied with small TK projectors). Not to mention that organic armor is VERY powerful... slap a few on and you'll be virtually invincable! (BTW, don't bother with shields... just use organic armor.) And on a final note, organic stuff uses more organic resouces and less minerals/radioactives.... as your ships will now more "evenly" use resources for maintianence, you'll be able to field a larger fleet. Then you've got the facilities, the med lab works like a urban pacification center but improves reproduction and prevents plagues. The othe "reproduction" facs can also be helpful at times.

I'm not sure what you're complaing about... just drop the plasma bolts and refit with (enveloping)acid globules and electric discharge/lightning rays... drop the shields, and put on a lot of organic armor (go with 4-5 pieces... you'll see their merit)... and perhaps build some fighters, and you'll soon realize that organic rocks!

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

I will do as you suggest http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif Thanks

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Keep in mind that organic armor is great, unless you go up against someone with crystaline tech. Crystaline weapons ignore armor.

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Another thing I like about Organic Weapons:

CSM has a reload of 3
Seeking Parasite has a reload of 2

CSM I has range 10 damage 75
SP I has range 8 damage 60
SP II has range 10 damage 70

so every six rounds

CSM I can do 150 damage
SP I can do 180 damage
SP II can do 210 damage

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Cap'n Q

[This message has been edited by capnq (edited 27 April 2001).]

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by capnq:
Another thing I like about Organic Weapons:

CSM has a reload of 3
Seeking Parasite has a reload of 2

CSM I has range 10 damage 75
SP I has range 8 damage 60
SP II has range 10 damage 70

so every six rounds

CSM I can do 150 damage
SP I can do 180 damage
SP II can do 210 damage

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You got it wrong. CSM I has range of 8 and does 60 damage. You were talking about CSM II.

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>You got it wrong. CSM I has range of 8 and does 60 damage. You were talking about CSM II.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>D'oh! Good catch. I looked at the wrong line in components.txt

I thought it looked right because in my current game with an organic tech race, there was a colonizable ruins planet in my homeworld system, and I got Missile Weapons 2 when I put my first colony down. So when I got Organic Weapons 1, the Weapons report showed me CSM II versus SP I. But SP I still beats CSM I on reload time.

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Cap'n Q

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Yes, the one achilles' heel for organic is crystalline.... If you come across them, you have to design completely new ships!

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Ummm... I wouldn't completely lose the shields if you have organic tech. Mainly because of Crystalline tech. Also because shields provide more protection than armor. A good design should have a mix of both.

Anyway when you look at the cost, size, and damage/turn of all weapons, the EAGs are the best standard weapons in the game (meaning no special ability).

Small Lightning Rays are the supreme fighter weapon. I have a game where my large fighter design is 1 shield, 2 SLR, combat sensor&ecm, afterburners, and the remaining spaces taken up by the required components and engines. Two Groups of twenty on patrol took out a fleet of twenty enemy cruisers (I'll admit it wasn't exactly a fair fight, the ships didn't have PDC). If I had used fighters with something like Small APB, I wouldn't have been able to take out the entire fleet.

As said before, Organic Armor is very good, has the best damage/kT ratio with Crystalline, and regenerates each combat turn (try making a ship with max engines and fill the rest with organic armor. Use it to ram ships in the Sim. Watch it magically restore itself to 100% in 1 or 2 turns). You must have multiple components for this to work, however.

Then there's the facilities. A Gestation Vats/Replicant Center combo in a freshly colonized system will fill up your planets fast. Medical facility is nice, but it won't stop plage bombs IV and V. Fine for stopping random plagues though.

And finally, the already stated benefit of cost split between Minerals and Organics. This only makes for a larger fleet if you use only Monolith facilities, since the weapon cost in total resources doesn't decrease too much, only transfered between types. However, it does make for faster build times (I like using Organic & Temporal tech, Huge planets with a Temporal SY can build a BattleShip sized warship in one turn, compared to around 2-3 turns for a similar standard tech ship).

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Yeah Phased Polaron Beams are the greatest thing since sliced bread; till the other side gets phased shields that is. Thats all I would research with the older AI's and have a field day beating the hell out of them. With the great work of the mod pack guys and other race makers thoses shields show up quickly now and now the name of the game is damage (not counting Null weapons). Yes the PB does a good amount of damage for its size and ROF. Thing is you have to be around long enough for the ROF to matter and the PB's power drops off at range.
This is where Enveloping Acid comes into its own. Its a great single turn hitter like the quantum torp but with more range and the more damage you can do in the first turn the less of a chance of the other guy being around for the next round and its damage doesnt fade with range (thats why I like the mental singularity of the psy branch as a one turn wonder weapon and the telekinetic projector beats the PB hands down vs phased shields). With all this you get the other stuff people listed for organic, missles, fighter weapon, and kick @ss armor, ect.

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Jason2 I understand your question very well.
The special technology races have all a disadvantage in the early game, because they used lots of racial points and research points without immediate pay-off. So if you play in a crowded galaxy with many hostile other empires, their performance will not be too good. However once they developed their special technologies they all have defenitely a major advantage. This usually becomes effective somewhere around turn 100. So it really depends what game setup you use, if the special racial technologies are a good choice.

[This message has been edited by Q (edited 27 April 2001).]

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Personaly, i am Organic tech fan since i heard about it the first time. Not because all the bonuses it gives, just i like the idea.

But talking about the point of them...

As someone already mentioned, Organic weapons give fine weapons of all types early.
Organic Armor is perfect, and two things seem to be as good - the standard armor - for its small size and low cost, and the crystalline.
A good design, which will use shield gen & regen, organic+scattering armor can be pretty powerful even without having lots of weapons.

Talking about weapons..
I myself did not realy realize how the SP (seeking parasite) is better than missile, but then i looked at their costs. All is clear to me now :P
Plasma can seems weak, but i have a design which makes it powerful (hint: melee warship)
Lightening is best weapon as its all-use, and can be either as main attack weapon (+large mount, +shield depleters) or a defensive mean to transport/carrier/anything else.

Personaly, i see all the techs powerful enough.
If i say that late in the game, those who have racial techs rule(as some say..) over others? Example is the phong, their dreadnoughts are greatly feared anywhere...

I could write more, but i feel this post is already too long, and i'll leave to others to talk about powers of other techs. If one is interested, feel free to e-mail me. I can proudly say i have strategic view over anything and can see how it can be useful..

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Emperor Klis't of the Taera Republic.
Proud member of the League of Empires.
E-Mail -
Ora Planet - Taera Republic - League of Empires

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Thanks for all the responses. Q's made the most sense - since I started with a large quadrant, 15 opponents and almost all of them modded AIs.... but it is still fairly early and I have yet to get to higher techs (started with medium level).... Thanks!

Re: What\'s the point with Organic and other techs - useless!
 

Organic weapons have a big range advantage also. Even though they may not be as powerful as some of the other early weapons you can get some free shots in if you can keep your distance.
I'm a big PPB fan myself but later in the game I like to have something with a little more range and in the basic techs you are left with only the APB as a long range direct fire weapon.
I use a mod that extend the WP range and with this mod organic has direct fire weapons with range of 12+. Tough to close on those planets!