spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

*** NEW VERSION 19/July/06 ***
Because there is new version of winspww2 (thanks for it!!!) and there is some changes in prices of units so there is new version of czechoslovak oob.

Changes:
ST vzor 39 - accuracy of gun corrected (lower)
10.5cm vz.35 RG now have anti-tank ammunition
minor corrections (pictures, dates,...)

Added:
Units of Goverment Forces (Vladni Vojsko)
- This small army was created in Bohemia and Moravia as czech protectorate army. Although this army was under strict german control there were anti-nazi sympathies. Because of fear from uprising Germans decided to move most of Goverment Forces to Italy as sentry force against partizans in 1944. Goverment forces were however ineffective (many soldiers deserted to italian partizans) so they were disarmed and used as labour force in Italy.
Units of Goverment Forces which stayed in Bohemia and Moravia than joined uprising against Germans in 1945.

Czech and Slovak Legion in Poland
This unit was officially created after German attack on Poland. There were some fights against Germans but later whole Legion was captured by Soviets and sent to Siberia (They were released after German attack on the USSR).


------------------------------

VERSION 17/June/06
What is there?
added riverboats
added french guns used in early '30
(105mm L mle 1913 Gun and 155mm C mle 1917 Howitzer)
modified some units (especially artillery and trucks) and minor corrections in organization

* added forts for human player only *
Czechoslovak forts were mostly designated to side firing and there forts can fire only one direction.
Because there are many forts for human player some light forts are in "Fort" as other forts for computer (but AI can not buy them).

So how to use it? - all units for one fort should be on one place

LIGHT FORTS - placed in line, distance up to 400 metres (usually 200-300 metres)
"LO vz.37 A side" - two units - aimed at right and left side of battlefield (there should be hill at front of this fort)
"LO vz37 B front" and "LO vz.37 B side" - front aimed at front (usually to protect some road) and one side to left or right
"LO vz.37 D side" - simple fort with one MG aimed at one side - only one unit (there should be hill at front of this fort)

HEAVY FORTS - placed in line, distance up to 1000 metres
there are usually "front, side a, side b, rear"
better heavy forts have there only one type of "side" used twice - so always 4 units are used at one place to simulate heavy fort. There should be hill at front of these forts - front MGs are only for close defence.

Ahead of line from heavy forts should be continuous line of obstacles (antitank and wires)

Behind line from heavy forts was sometimes line from light forts (about 500 metres behind + supplemented with "LO vz. 37 E" directly behind heavy fort and aimed at it)

Sometimes there were also the third line from light forts behind heavy forts.

------------------------------

Hallo all
I reworked czechoslovak spob - the first half for prewar army. There are many changes.

Main Changes:
LT vzor 34 - weaker armor, less effective gun, speed, radio, date, ...
LT vzor 35 - less effective gun, speed, radio, date, ...
LT vzor 38 - gun, speed, radio, date, ...
(note all prototype weapons have radio X3, start in 9/38 and are in some way marked against other weapons)
ST vzor 39 - - weaker armor, less effective gun, speed, radio, date, ...

Tancik vz. 33, OA vz. 27, OA vz. 30 - minor changes (dates, speed)
added Skoda PA-II - although this armoured car was not accepted to inventory batch of them was built

added police cars (used older army armoured cars)

added export tanks (S-IIa-R, TNH-P, LTH, LTP) and export tankettes (S-I-D, AH-IV-P, AH-IV-R, AH-IV-Sv) - during mobilisation all weapons produced for export were confiscated by army (add 10 complete tanks and about 40 tanks in production in september 1938)

AT-Guns - minor changes in AP effectivity, change in organisation
AA-Gun - renaming and change organisation

Infantry:
renaming to Infantry Squads and Platoons, changed organization from squad to company
added more infantry units with different weapons
added mountain units
change in MG units
added AAMG units (yes this units really exist)

added SOS units - this is Straz Obrany Statu (Guard of Defence of State), units formed from army and police to serve on borders - during its existence died 262 men, 316 were wounded and 2029 men were captured by Germans and deported to Germany

added bunkers:
LO vz. 36 A, B, C
LO vz. 37 A, B, C, D, E
- this represents main versions of light fortifications
Fort 1,2, I, II, III, IV
- this represents main versions of heavy fortifications
Mortar Fort - armed with Fort Mortars - weapon which in fact was not in fortress in time
Artillery Fort - several artillery forts were built but 10cm fort howitzers were not completed at the end of september 1938
Rotary Artillert Turret - like previous


added heavy AA Guns - actually this type of weapons are not
used in this game but I added it - you can write there if it is good or bad idea
7.5cm PL vz.37 - not entered service
8cm PL vz. 37
8.35cm PL vz.22
9cm PL vz.12/20


added and modified many mortars, guns and howitzers + modified organization - list:

8cm vzor 36 Mortar
9cm vzor 17 Mortar
14cm vzor 18 Mortar
26cm vzor 17 Heavy Mortar
21cm vzor 18 Siege Mortar
30.5cm vzor 16 Siege Mortar

7.5cm Chinese Gun (vzor 14 - originally intended to export to China)
7.5cm French Gun (mle 1897 FG)
7.5cm vzor 15 Mountain Gun
8cm vzor 5/8 Light Gun (76.5)
8cm vzor 17 Gun (76.5)
8cm vzor 30 Gun (76.5)

10cm vz. 14/19 Light Howitzer
10cm vz.30 Light Howitzer
10cm vz.16/19 Mountain Howitzer
10.5cm vz.35 Rough Gun

15cm vz.14/16 Rough Howitzer
15cm vz.25 Rough Howitzer
15cm vz.37 Rough Howitzer - not entered service
15cm vz.15 Heavy Howitzer
15cm vz.15/16 Heavy Gun
24cm vz.16 Heavy Gun

added many aircraft and modified others (note - all bombs loaded were really in service + 10 kg bomb is vzor 37 so for late use of it) - list:

Aero A-30
Aero A-230
Aero A-32
Aero A-100
Aero Ab-101
Aero MB-200 - licence built french bomber
Avia BH-21
Ba 33 (BH-33L) - Ba 33 is military designation different from factory d.
Avia B-34
Avia B-534
"Avia Bk-534 -" - cannon variant of B-534 but actually without cannon, production of aircraft started sooner than cannon was usable
Avia F-IX - originally fokker transport aircraft rebuilt as bomber
Avia B-71 - soviet SB-2 used by Czechoslovakia, first batch was delivered with licence bought
Letov S-16
Letov S-616
Letov S-20
Letov S-128
Letov S-328
Letov S-528
Letov S-31
Letov S-231
Skoda D-1

+ prototypes:
Avia Bk534 - with cannon
Avia B-35 - new modern fighter, batch of this aircrafts was in production but...
Aero A-300 - modern bomber, too late for production
Aero A-304 - originally developed as civil transport aircraft, proposed by military for recon and light strike, in production but...

NOTE:
I have changed position of prototype tanks in formations and I give to this position MG Company - So text for prototype tanks are now in bad position.
You can rename ft037025.txt to ft037006.txt in GAMEDATA\TEXT\ if you want to use this modified spob.
That is because AI used that prototype weapons.

Computer AI can use this spob without limitation.

Regards
Pavel Novak

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

eee Sorry to all
I just uploaded new version of my spob:
sizes of Avia B-71 and Avia F-IX is now correct
(but in slovak spob is still wrong for B-71 - look at soviet SB-2 and bulgarian B.71)

added "dragoons" unit armed with "vz.38 SMG" - this weapon was accepted but none production so radio code X3

I hope now it is complete for Czechoslovakia 1930-1939
(without riverboats http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif )

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Good work! Something I wanted to do myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif
What does mean "*" in the beginning of the unit name?
PA-II cars had 4 MG´s, but they were not able to fire them at once. Maybe it would be better to let them with 2 MG´s.

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Thanks
"*" mean that this unit was not in service in fact (like vz.39 Rifle, 10cm vz.38 Fort Howitzer,...). Although these weapons were accepted to service and production started in some cases (15cm vz.37 Rough Howitzer,...) it was too late for using it in military service. Computer will never buy it.

About PA-II you are right - 2 MGs is better. I plan to add riverboats so then I change this.
Regards

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

IIRC it had a twin MG in the turret and two BMG's facing at opposite directions, no? Then I'd suggest three machineguns... In game most likely two eapon slots, one representing the twin and the other representing the BMG.

A vubec, co sem napsat neco cesky at je tady taky trocha konstruktivniho chaosu? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Great job, looking forward to playtesting it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

V pohode...

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Zdar
So about PA-II (and other prewar czechoslovak armor), nice info is there:
http://utocnavozba.wz.cz/

Turret of PA-II is not rotary and only 2 MG can fire by one direction. So to simulate it we can use armoured car with rotating turret with 2 MG. I think.

Kdyz se nas tu tak seslo, nezna nekdo presnou organizaci jezdeckych jednotek (druzstvo, ceta, rota - nebo spis jejich jezdecke ekvivalenty)?

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Kdyz se nas tu tak seslo, nezna nekdo presnou organizaci jezdeckych jednotek (druzstvo, ceta, rota - nebo spis jejich jezdecke ekvivalenty)?

from "Miloslav John - Zari 1938":
zakladni jednotku tvorilo druzstvo (pusky+1 LK vz.26)
3 druzstva = ceta (35 jezdcu)
4 cety = eskadrona
3 eskadrony = korouhev
2 korouhve = dragounsky pluk

PLUK = 1.korouhev mela 3 eskadrony jezdecke, 2.korouhev mela 2 esk. jezdecke a 1 kulometnou s TK vz. 24, pozdeji vz.37
pluk mel jeste nahradni korouhev, asi s 2 eskadronami (nahradni a remontni)
nektere pluky mely jeste cyklistickou eskadronu = 1 ceta strelecka a 1 ceta kulometna
od 30. let jeste cetu KPUV

jezdectvo bylo nutno rozclenovat do malych jednotek o kone byly pouzivany jen k rychelsim presunum. po presunu k bojove care jezdci sesedli a bojovali jako pechota. z techto duvodu doslo k prejmenovani jezdeckych pluku na dragounske. pruzkumna cinnost, ktera byla vzdy domenou jezdectva, musela byt take kombinovana s pesim pruzkumem.

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

The posting language in this group is English, please remember!.

There is no problem with a foreign-language bit added to a message to clarify things etc, but the main body of the post should be in English.

Cheers
Andy

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

OK, but it was too much for my English...
It´s about czech terms for dragoon units and their org. structure in pre WW2 CZ army.
Maybe useful for improving CZ OOB made by PN79.

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Oops... Wasn't aware the turret was fixed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Skvele shrnuti!
Nice overwiew!

To convert this to English cavalry terms, it'd be something like this:

3 squads = platoon
4 platoons = troop
3 troops = squadron
2 squadrons = dragoon regiment

(hope I got it correctly)

Regiment = 1st squadron got three mounted troops, 2nd squadron got two mounted troops and one MG troop (vz.24 HMG, later vz.37)
Regiment got also a reserve squadron with most likely two troops (reserve and remount)

Some regiments got moreover bicycle troop (one Rifle platoon and one MG platoon)
since 1930's moreover AT-Gun platoon.

Cavalry was to be scattered into smaller units and horses were used just for fater transport. After reaching combat area cavalrymen dismounted and fought as infantry. Because of this cavalry regiments were renamed to dragoons.
Recon, always cavalry's domain, had to be combined with foot recon as well.

(Hope I've managed to translate it without distorting the meaning and without torturing the English too much http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif)

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

No worries - not too bothered by 1 or 2 posts not in English, but it is the board language (stated in the usage guides somewhere).

Just trying to head off any potential floods of non-English posts in the future http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif!

Cheers
Andy

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

I see, but I thought the contents of this post might well be useful (well, it was for me definitely!) - just not sure whether I put the troop in the correct place - would it be in cav terms platoon or company?

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Thanks Nemo_cz for org. structure and to Marek_Tucan for english terms.
And I appreciate any comments to my reworked spob.
Regards

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Unforttunately I still have to have a thorough look at it but most likely tomorrow http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gifAt a quick glance, good work!

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

I have tried to translate it in this way:
eskadrona = squadron (same level as company)
korouhev = guidon (same level as battalion)

Maybe there is any dragoon to correct it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Nemo, this seems to be better than my translation, I admit I have been inspired by today's US armor cav terminology (where it is regt-squadron-troop-platoon).

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Hallo all
I just uploaded new version of czechoslovak oob.
Description is added in the first post.
Regards
Pavel Novak

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

I have a question what do you thing what type of force should be in Czechoslovakian OOB in the wartime

- Prewar czechoslovakian army to the 1938 for AI buy all is clear

- After german anexation to the end of war partisants units but only for human buy

- In the polish books about defense war in 1939 I found a info about Czecholovakian (Czech for precision?) volunteers what fights in his own companys in the polish army Krakow in the south poland. So meaby in Czech OOB should be a Czech infantery company with polish weapons and some battles with germans and rusians in September 1939. This soliders go together with poles to the Romunia. I sugest put this force to oob and prepare a few battles for campaign generator. Many Czech went trought Romunia to the france or Middle East but many was too cath by red army and go on siberia. Question shuld be batles in poland and polish equiped units?

- What was with Czech soliders what was on exile in France they were transfered together with polish solider trought romunia hungary and italy to france? I have no info meaby were created a czech companys during fall of France? Some Czech must go on the middle east together with polish because later in 1941 in Tobruk fight a czech infantery brigade but when was created I don't know? So no many info about czech units in french army

- After fall of france czech created his fighters divisions first was 310 Sq-n in July 1940. Land forces consist on Czechoslovak 1st Infantry Brigade what fight on the desert in 1941 in Tobruk to the last fight in Tunesia. In September 1943 transfered to England and converted in Armoured brigade. Fight during siege of Dunkrik to the may 1945. Was supported by british and Canadian forces in the 1945 was reinforced by French formed from FFI forces. So now is the Question this forces what fight on the west shuld be buyble by AI and campaign generator shuld have fights for this forces? Or meaby shuld be add for OOB as only human by units?

- Czech forces in USSR created from Czech soliders captured in 1939 in poland and in majority from Czech what fights on german side and was cath by rusians. This force were created in November 1943 and now is the Question this forces are now AI buy in the game but shuld be only human buy if army on the west be prepare for computer player.


I thing what should be with Czech army if starts soon after WWII a next war betwen West and East Czech stay on western side or meaby on eastern or meaby we have fights in Germany betwen 1 armoured brigade equiped in GB against Czech equiped in Russia what do you thing?

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Hallo Blazejos
My future goal is to add foreign czechoslovak units into this oob. But for now I have too many work on my final work in college.

Some info about foreign czechoslovak units:
The first was in Poland. This was only small unit but some combat was there.

Next step was in France and Middle East. There were whole infantry division (up to 15000 men). 3 infantry regiments and artillery regiment were in France and one infantry regiment was in ME (offically subordinated to division).
This division was created thanks to czechoslovak embassy in France which still existed after fall of Czechoslovakia and after beginnig of war embassy started mobilisation of czechoslovak citisens in abroad.
Soldiers in ME come from Carpathia - last cape of Czechoslovakia in 17th March 1939. They withdraw to Romania after some fights with invading Hungary.

Other history is wrote by you.
But detail large group in czechoslovak units in USSR was created from captured slovak soldiers.

I also think to add slovak army from the beginnig of uprising - they declared its loyality to Czechoslovakia.

For using by AI:
In winSPMBT there was possibility to make own picklist - and above all speciality that AI will by some group of units for fighting with one enemy on one territory and another units to fight with another enemy on another territory in same period. This was very complicated and it seems that we have not this possibility for all.
So if I change this oob all except units in USSR are only for human player.

You ask on which side would Czechoslovakia fight in hypotetical ww3. If ww3 start in 1945 probably both - as there were Soviets on most of territory and US in western part of Czechoslovakia. Soviets and US withdraw in 1946. I think than would be Czechoslovakia probably neutral (if somebody do not attak). President Benes was still in power and actually western equipped tank corps had more tanks than eastern army. It is however question if communist would be able to seize power during ww3 all around.

Pavel Novak

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Blazejos, just a side note, the fighting force in Africa was a Rifle Battallion, in Tobruk assigned to the Polish Carpathian Rifles brigade, later it was transformed (due to hard replacement of losses esp. in the ME theater) to light AAA battallion (40mm Bofors guns) and stationed IIRC in Alexandria, later transformed to the UK and added to the Armoured Brigade stationed already there.

Re: spob37 Czechoslovakia
 

Hallo all
New version of czechoslovak oob is here - description and file is in the first post in this topic.
Any comments and suggestions are welcomed.
Pavel Novak