Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 forum)
 

Hope I don't mess this up!
(I'm manually moving part of a thread from the Dom3 forums that has gone OT, and became OnTopic for this forum, and seeing as how I have no uber-mod powers, I'm just quoting all relevant posts)
This is a discussion about a Byblical Israel Mod for Dom3, which will probably be started on Dom2.

Done!

It will be obviously much better if some mod would be able to split the thread and move the appropriate posts over to this forum, but this will have to do meanwhile.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 forum)
 

curse your lack of uber-modly powers! overall looks like a nice idea, hope to see it asap (would be nice to have a mod or 2 wen dom3 comes out, i probably wont be sleeping for a few days so...

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

*From the other thread*

IIRC old sprites were 32x32, which could spell trouble :/
There is a simple solution, drawing the new sprites in 64x64 and then resizing them to fit dom2 (while still holding on to the higher quality originals).
This would mean that it is harder to draw sprites though :\

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Here's some further refinement on the commander ideas...tell me what you think.

Scout - A simple scout, maybe armed with a staff and a sling. Waste/mountain survival?
Warlord (another name needed) - Basic commander with 25 or 50 leadership and Standard
Temple Keeper (is the name good?) - Social elite and priests. They take care of animal sacrifices in the temple and such.
Judge - He's a judge, a priest and a warrior. 1A 1S 2/3 H, good leader, Standard.

Scholar - Miracle worker in making, he has 1 S 1 Elemental Random and 2 Holy. He has priestly authority but he is more in to the mysterious side of religion than burning lamb fat at the temple.
Commander Needing A Name - The next step of the miracle worker. This one knows more of the Astral laws and elements of the nature. 3H 2S 1A 1 Elemental Random
Prophet (needs a new name) - *The* miracle worker with great knowledge and power. He has 3H 3S 1A 2 Chained elemental randoms.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Temple keeper is fine, they all look good. For the commander needing name how about Interpreter/Dream reader. would make sense that he has the astral+holy but not sure about elements. They could also use some sort of un-holy mage (or else they will all be too expensive) but its not needed.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Well, I kinda thought that the 2nd tier mage would be further progression of the Scholar so he would at least have the Elemental random, but I guess the Air could be shaved off. Of course such continuity could be broken and have him be 2 H/2 S.

"Interpreter" sounds good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

As for non scared mages...got any ideas? The lil' marigno-pythian inside me really, *really* likes the idea of priest mages but I am open to suggestions.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Here are my further thoughts:
Scout with staff and sling sounds great, if we had deserts I'd give him "Desert Survival", but Waste/Mountain Survival should do it (Waste sounds more logical than mountain to me)
Warlord - The name is good, but I realize its problematic :\
I went for Warlord because of the "Sarei Milhama" which some kings had. The most accurate translation of that is "Warlord". Perhaps "Minister of War" might work? (which more resembles the direct translation)
Temple Keeper sounds kind of forced. I think we should just come up with a name like "Rebel Warrior" (like the rebels that beat "Antiochus" [don't know his English name]) or maybe something like "X Warrior" where X is some sort of tribal affiliation.
Judge - sounds cool.
Scholar - This guy is very similar to the judge as far as magic goes right now, I'm not sure if we should do something about it, or just differentiate them by Holyness (Judge being H3, Scholar being H2) and price (Judge costing more money)
Prophet - I kind of like the name, but I guess it isn't really practical :\
How about *searches web for synonyms* Augur/Clairvoyant/Seer/Prophesier (I like the last two the best)
I also think he should be slightly more magical, maybe add F1 ? (pillar of smoke/pillar of fire http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)
Middle-Mage - Interperter sound nice, though not optimal. Visionary is another option (which isn't that good :\)
I'm tempted to call him Kabbalist or Cabalist (the second one seems further from Kabbalah), but I don't really know much about Kabbalah, and I think its too real-world-religiony for the game.

Another commander idea: "Captain of Fifty" ("Sar Hamishim"), this is sort of a byblical cushy goverment job, which would give us another none-holy commander, perhaps with a patrol bonus.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

I'd rather call the Warlords Sarei Milhama because it deviates from the norm of english commander names.

Well, I had the idea of the Temple Keepers being 'just' priests.

I'm all for Pillars of Fire. If you have any byblical name suggestions for the commanders, tell me. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Visionary and Prophesier also sound kinda good to me.

Some real world ties are good, too much is bad, agreed.

Hmmm, Captain of Fifty sounds kinda good too... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Just going over commander names to inform of hebrew counterparts (perhaps they will sound fitting, its hard to look at these things objectively while knowing what the hebrew names mean http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)
Scout = Saiar
Judge = Shophet / Shofet
Scholar = Melumad / Mascil/Maskil / Talmid(actually pupil/student)
Prophet = Navi
Temple Keeper = Shomer Hamikdash / Magen Hamikdash (Hamikdash actually means "The Temple", but its either that or what would be translated as "Keeper of Temples" [which seems akward, atleast in hebrew])
Commander Needing a Name = Mephaked shtsarih Shem http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

(EDITED FOR SPELLING MISTAKE)

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

They sound very nice, I especially like Shophet and Melumad. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Great!
Interesting bit of information: I tried translating Militia to hebrew using an online dictionary, and apparently, no such word exists in hebrew O: (we have "Militsia", I'm sure you can spot the amazing differences)
So much for translating all units into hebrew...
I guess Shophet and Melumad will have to do... And "Sar Milhama" as well (singular of "Sarei Milhama").
Concerning Temple Keepers, I thought you meant the elite holy troops I called "Temple Guards", but now I understand you meant it as a new commander unit.
In which case Temple Keeper actually sounds nice. Other possibilities include Keeper of Holyness or Meshamer Kodesh (=Preserver of sanctity)

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

What should the nation be called in the game BTW? And what should the starting spell(s) be?

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Name?
Probably something simple, like Rome<=>Ermor.
Israel<=>Sar'el/Sar Elad/Aelsar/Aersal/Aerlas/Elar Sad, maybe Kna'an<=>Kan/Kannan?
Or maybe something symbolic?
Atika(=ancient) / Kduma(=ancient) / Kadmun(=ancient http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) ?


And on the issue of sprites, I don't know how you plan on doing them (:P) but no matter what, I think you should make them four times the size they are going to be in Dom2, because it is evident that Dom3 units will be x4 the size dom2 units are, so we should keep high quality originals for when Dom3 comes out and use a rezoomed version for Dom2. (x4 = Widthx2 Heightx2)

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Sar Elad sounds good. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: What about the starting spells?

EDIT2: What nation should Sar Elad replace? My vote is on Arco.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Tien Chi seems like the closest match as far as spell paths go, so either that or Arco or Pyth.

EDIT: As for spells, I really don't know :\
My bet is on classic miracle-like spells, so probably something Evocationy.
Either that or some scrying-revelation spell, something Thaumatuargy http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Hmmm, maybe the Communion spells and Mist? Or Star Fires/Solar Rays and Mist?

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Solar Rays is anti-undead, which doesn't really fit the theme (they may be loaded with holy, but they don't traditionally fight undead), though Star Fire seems nice (and weak =P)
Mist is fitting, but kind of funny, because only one in four prophets will be able to cast it (O=) or a heavily decked one (Bag of Air + Winged Helmet).
Going over the spells list, Wind Guide sounds cool, it fits the theme of buff-like miracles (like Joshua and his cane-buff =P).
Sulphur Haze sounds like a thematic evocation, though it too will be hard to cast :\

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Communion solves everything. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Caelum already has Wind Guide. =/

Maybe Mist and Sulphur Haze? This way half of Navis will be able to cast the starting spells. =P

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Hmmm, that makes sense.

BTW, the plural of Navi is Nevi'im.
Shophtim, Melumadim, Nevi'im, Saiarim, Sarei Milhama.

And if they were female they would have been:
Nevi'a=>Nevi'ot, Shophetet=>Shophtot, Melumedet=>Melumadot, Sayeret=>Sayarot, Sarat Milhama, Sarot Milhama. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Note: now that I think about it, its better to spell Saiar as Sayar, which is closer in pronounciation to the actual word.

And because I'm suddenly in the mood, I feel like explaining how to actually pronounce the names:
Shophet is pronounced like: shop (without the P) + fat
Melumad is pronounced like: met (without the t) + loom + advertise (without the vertise)
Navi is pronounced like: Narcotic (withouth the rcotic) + Vietnam (without the etnam)
Sayar is pronounced like: Seargent (without the eargent, and imagine an a in there http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) + yar (like a pirate, though without the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr)
Sar Milhama is pronounced like: Seargent (without the gent and the e http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) + Million (without the lion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif) + Ha + Master (without the ster)

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Thanks for the language lesson. The hebrew language seems quite different from languages I've seen before. Sayar is a bit hard since finnish language has the rrrrolling rrrrr. All the time. Yarrrr. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'll propably start working with the troops next.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Well, it is a rolling r in the sense that it is not the american r (which sounds a lot like a w).
It isn't a rolling r in the sense that it comes from the throat rather then the tongue.

And the language is obviously very different, considering how its roots are completely different: most Europian and American languages come from latin, while Hebrew (and arab langauges) have aramic roots AFAIK.
Its also one of the languages which is written Right To Left, rather than Left To Right.

Useless trivia: writing from right to left encourages the writer to use his left hand to write (because then it is easier to see what you just wrote, your hand isn't getting in the way.). And using your left hand is a sign of dominance of the right hemisphere of the brain (the one in charge of logical thinking [rather than emotional/creative thinking]).
Though even here in Israel the majority is with the right-handers.
I write with my left hand, so that is why I lack creativeness. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

As for troops:
Shomer Shayarot = Caravan Guard
S'hir 'Herev = Mercenary ('h is pronounced like the spanish j. I know there's a dutch letter that fits more precisely the right sound, my guess is its also an h, or maybe ch or kh?)
Lo'hem = Warrior
Lo'hem Vatik = Veteran Warrior
Oman 'Herev = Swordmaster
Oman 'Haravot = Swordsmaster http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
'Ikar/'Havai/'Havay = Farmer (for a militia warrior)
Ro'e Tson = Ship Herder
Tsayad = Hunter
Ya'aran = Forester

That's all I have for names for now, feel free to pick a few up for use as names ^_^

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Onwy if you awe Ewmew Fudd.

I like where this mod is going... I looked up the "Nephilim" wiki article and there are quite a few inspiring things involved with that mythology. And this gave me an idea for a Mormon mod I might make.... muah hah hah...

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Well, if you compare the way r is pronounced by people from the USA to the way it is pronounced in the Hebrew language (especially by some people), you'll see that the american r sounds much more like a w than our r http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

As for the nephilim, as far as dom goes, IMO they sound too much like the jotun to be the subject of a mod.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

theres alreayd a dom2 nephilim mod iirc.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Really?
I didn't know that (obviously), how is it different from just plain old Jotunheim?

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

it adds fallen angels and the 'jotuns' in it use more supplys me thinks. it also has some of the hybrids (wimpy ones) you get from crossbreeding iirc.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Impressing stuff guys.
Keep it going http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Just throwing some ideas:
What about the high priests of Israel, the "Kohanim"?
Do you plan on making references to the tribes - Yehuda, binyamin etc.
For unique heroes, you may consider Moses (with mute affliction) and A'haron (I think it is Eron in english) the exodus heroes.
If it were possible to mod national spells it could have been interesting to give them "Kruvim" and "Seraphim" which are angles, guardians of the holy temple and high ranking in the angelic hierarchy.
No cavalry, no spears, no heavy armor so low prot but higher def and mobility.
Consider the siege at "Mesada" I'd give at least some of the troops some of the whatever bonuses possible vs. siege.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

You'll have to tell more about Kohanim and the tribes if you want to see them. I only remember the Levi who were ordered to become the priests.

On the subject of national spell, I am sure that there could be a ton of interesting summons...I'd really have to read up about angels.

Hmmm, no spears?

I was actually toying with the idea of unit with siege bonus.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

On the 12 tribes and Kohanim and levyim (pronounced levi'im), as far as my memory goes that is:

There were three fore fathers to the Israelite nation -
Abraham -> Yitzhak (who was to be sacrificed by his father to god as a test of faith) -> Ya'akov (Jacob), whose name means "he who grabs the ankle" - for it was told that he had fought an angle in his dream and won the fight by grabbing at its ankle. So Ya'akov was also called Israel had twelve sons who where the fathers of the twelve tribes

Ya'akov's sons:
Reuben - first born, name means look, son,
Shim'on (Simon) - name means listening,
*** Levi *** - He his the fore father of the priests tribe whose most prominent members were Moses and A'haron. The Kohanim were decndents of A'haron who was the first "Kohen gadol" or high priest. The levites are lesser priests then the Kohanim.
Yehuda (Judah) - his decedents have kept their identity through the millennia - they are today's jews.
The rest are Dan, Naftali, Gad, Asher, Issachar and Zvulun.
Last were Joseph (described as a prophet in the bible) and Benjamin.

Wow, that came out long, now don't got me started on the angles http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

No spears?
As far as I know from bible lessons, spears were used (IIRC the Akravaim from "Avi yser etchem beshotim veani ayaser etchem beakravim" were spearlike)
And Ya'akov grabbed the ankle of Esav when they exited their mother's womb.
As for the tribes, in the bible the different tribes didn't have much of a different identity to emphasize in the game, so I don't see how you can add them (except for maybe the Levi).
Maybe they are mentioned in other sources, but I wouldn't know about that.

And cavalry is an option, IIRC king David had many horses at his disposal. (Though I agree cavalry should be weak, if at all existing, since in most of he stories the Israelites had very little cavalry/horses, and Israel does not have any natural population of horses AFAIK)

BTW, the ancient israelites had the technology to build siege towers, so if you feel like giving them some sort of siege weapon http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

EDIT: Whoops! Apparently the forum software can't support hebrew. *replaces hebrew with "English"*

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Slingers and bowmen seem to have been part of the Israelite (Israeli?) forces. It is especially mentioned that the slings were used left-handed. Maybe most infantry should be given slings and precision of 14 - using slings took lots of training, but stones were easy to come by. Alternatively, they could be given slightly modified slings, with range 35, dam [str-2] and prec 0 to show their mastery of the weapon.

There shouldn't be a slinger-hero. He would be equipped with some magical bow any way, and slings as normal weapons are rarely considered as dangerous as they were. The lead glandes shot from slings had to be extracted from the bodies of soldiers they had struck, and that can't be good...

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

I say Israelite to differentiate them from Israelis of today, I really don't know what the proper way of saying it is.
As for slingers and bowmen, I don't remember* any refernce to bows in the bible, nor slings (except for David and Goliath), but if you say they were a part of the ancient military, then I believe you.
Left Handed slings would be really cool, because I'm left handed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif
There shouldn't be a slinger hero? According to what you said, a slinger hero makes sense. We could even have David as a leader with powerful sling abilities.

Other hero ideas:
Cain Clone: If it was possible, making Cain Immortal and giving him the Blood Vengance effect would be really cool, this would simulate the Mark of Cain that ensures that he will: a) Forever roam the land b) Anyone who strikes him will be punished seven folds.
Elyahu/Elijah Clone: Uber prophet hero. This guy was a serious miracle worker, he even revived a dying child (Awwwww!)
Moses Clone: Another uber miracle worker, this guy can take credit (although obviously the credit goes to god) for a rain of frogs, turning water into blod, lice, complete darkness, a hail made from huge burning rocks of ice, etc.
Solomon Clone: Very wise, should be able to decrease chance of bad events happening.
Samson Clone: Uber strength.

*-I have a pretty lousy memory

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

"Judges 20:16
Among all these soldiers there were seven hundred chosen men who were left-handed, each of whom could sling a stone at a hair and not miss."

"1 Chronicles 12:2
they were armed with bows and were able to shoot arrows or to sling stones right-handed or left-handed; they were kinsmen of Saul from the tribe of Benjamin):"

I searched for 'sling' in BibleGateway.com - that's the two mentions of slings in warfare. I have read elsewhere, but can't cite any sources, that some tribe of Israelites (probably tribe of Benjamin) were extraordinarily good with slings, and perhaps ranged weapons in general.

I would rather not have a David hero, precisely because everyone knows the story of a peasant-slinger. Very few realize sling was actually quite deadly weapon. As a hobbyist-slinger, I'd rather have sling respeceted for the power it really had (better range than shorbows of the time, for one), and not remembered as the toy that divine power magically transformed into a weapon.

As an interesting variation, what if most heroes had a double-edged power(s), or they were described as such? All men fall, and were punished. Job would make a good hero, IMO. He raises dominion, but causes bad events to happen - on the other hand, he can be an awesome preacher, even prophet, but on the other hand, you don't want him on your important provinces.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

BTW, for the record I've been thinking a bit of how one could split this into three eras.

I'll look into the units this weekend.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Jobe sounds like an interesting hero, if he can be modded the way you say. The only problem would be making him an excellent preacher like you said, because Prophets are candidates for Holy4, and that means the only way to make him better is with Holy-5, which is maximum holy. And propheting him would seem really wierd (would he get Holy-6? O_O)
I'm not really sure how you think it can be split into three eras, because:
1) It will require 3 times the work (atleast on unit graphics http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)
2) The theme behind this nation is extremely low-tech and high-magic, even in the height of ancient Israel they had almost no access to iron, using bronze as their strongest metal, AFAIK. This makes it fit only to the most ancient magical era.
You could replace it in newer eras with the empires that conquered ancient Israel (Babylon, Greece etc.) but I believe they are already represented in the game, so aren't really good mod material.
You could invent an alternate history, but then the newer eras would seem detached from the original theme.

Anyway, if you give our(:P) nation powerful slingers, make sure to state they are left handed http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Job: Marignon units etc have Inquisitor bonus; Juggernauts and maybe few other things spread dominion like prophets; Doom Horrors spread misfortune. If these could be combined, we would have Job. They can't. We can only dream about the possibilities, and hope that we can make them come true one day...

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Its possible we will have them in Dom3, you know.
The Inquisitor bonus is definitely out of the question though, since it brands the unit as an inquisitor, and none of our units has anything to do with the inquisition O=

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Don't forget to give Moses the sailing ability! Can he give it to troops he leads as well?

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Eeeer, sailing commanders lead their troops over the seas. Militias or demon knights, there's no difference IIRC.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

i think you can get holy over 5, iirc I had holy 7 once (holy 5 marignon cardinal, prophetised and with the holy raising sword artifact.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

I'm not saying you can't, I'm just saying there isn't a point.
You get all the holy spells at Holy-5, and the added preaching bonus isn't very useful.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Not sure about that, slings, bows, staffs and maybe short swords as far as I recall.

right of course, glad I have already done "tanach bagrut" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Makes sense, I was just throwing this as an idea.

Maybe weak cavalry, I'm not sure it adds much in terms of thematic value.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Added Holy can be useful with the Banishment spells. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Oh, and early ideas on units:

Militia:

Havay

Sling/Sickle

Havay

Scythe

Warriors:

Shomer Shayarot

Short Sword/Round Shield/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet

Lo'hem

Axe/Sling/Round Shield/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet

Tsayad

Axe/Short Bow/Leather Armor

The Elites:

Oman 'Herev (12 attack, 12 defence)

Short Sword/Round Shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

Lo'hem Vatik (high precision, 11 strenght)

Axe/Sling/Round shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

"Settlement Guard" (counts as 2 men in siege)

Mace/Sling/Round shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

"Holy Warrior" (high stats, sacred)

Axe/Sling/Round Shield/Copper Armor/Copper Helmet

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Sounds cool!
Comments:
-Its kind of funny, with all this holy these guys are going to become serious Undead killers, despite almost no mention at all of the Undead in the bible. But it's unavoidable.
-Short Swords/Axes/Maces should be Copper Short Swords/Copper Axes/Copper Maces, which should have slightly weaker stats (0-1 less attack than the original,0-1 less defence that the original, 1-2 less damage than the original).
-"Holy Warrior" can be:
I. Lohem Kadosh (holy warrior)
II. Lohem Kodesh (a warrior of holyness)
III. Lohem Mekudash (holy warrior [the difference is "mekudash" is passive, someone who has been made holy, while "kadosh" is simply holy)
IV. Lohem Masu'ah (an anointed warrior)
-"Settelment Guard" can be:
I. Shomer Yeshuvim (guardian of settelments)
II. Magen Yeshuvim (guardian of settelments)
III. Magen Hityashvuyot (guardian of settelments)
IV. Shomer Hityashvuyot (guardian of settelments)
V. Shomer Mivtsarim (guardian of fortresses)
VI. Magen Mivtsarim (guardian of fortresses)
VII. Shomer Bitsurim (guardian of barricades)
VIII. Magen Bitsurim (guardian of barricades)
IX. Magen Homot (guardian of walls)
X. Shomer Homot (guardian of walls)
XI. Shomer Migdalim (guardian of towers)
XII. Magen Migdalim (guardian of towers)
-10 units is average, you could add more by adding spear-bearers ("'Hanita'im"/"Kidona'im") , if you think it is necessary.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Spear-bearers?

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

You know, guys with spears, Spearmen O_O
Probably with a warrior chassis and:
Spear/Leather Armor/Copper Helmet
Maybe a Round Shield as well.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Aaah, yes. Mmmmaybe. http://www.cncreneclips.com/forum/st...cre/ponder.gif

BTW, does anybody here have any knowledge on the angels?

EDIT: M ysuggested lineup of magic sites

Cloud Pillars 1 S 1 A
Crystal Flames 1 S 1 F
Ancient Temple 1 S
*either of the GE Arco non-gem sites*

Unaesthetic, but it gives 3S 1 A 1F, and the Cloud Pillars are rather fitting, aren't they? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Depending on the number of capitol only units one of the Arco GE sites will be used.

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

Actually, I think its a rather fitting lineup.
Crystal Flames is kind of thematic if you think about the high priest's vest with 12 gems. (not sure if it whould be translated to gems, but it doesn't matter much either http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

As for the angels... In the Bible angels are actually just messengers, and appear just like any other human being (ie no wings). If you feel like adding cooler angels you can add Seraphim, angels with many (I think four or eight) wings made of fire, and bigger than normal men IIRC.
My knowledge of jewish mysticism is rather limited...

*checks hebrew wikipedia* (there's a lot of interesting information in the english wikipedia, but you can read that yourself, and I'm kind of busy right now :\)
According to the hebrew wikipedia (which is luckily much more succint than the English one) angels in the bible are just messengers, but later a new meaning was created for them (traditional angels we all know).
Angels can look like people, they can also become invisible (glamour/ethereal?)
There are "angels of grace" which are immortal and angels of judgement (including the good ol' angel of death.), regarding whom there's no mention of immortality.
On rare occasions people can become angels.
Everything has a guardian angel, even plants. The angel that is in charge of mankind is called "Tselem"(image) or "Mazal"(luck).
Each angel usually performs just one function/mission.
Kruvim are... warriorlike angels... They have four wings and "the image of their face is that of the face of man, and the face of lion,and the face of bull, and the face of eagle). Apparently, they guard the tree of life. picture of assyrian statue that supposedly resemebles a kruv. They are armed with "Haravot Mithap'hot" (it is uknown exactly what this means, but with strict translation they are "turning swords", and IMO it means flaming swords).
Another page states they have the hands and body of a man, the hooves of a calf and the wings of an eagle.
The Seraphim are angels made from a burning material and they praise god. They have six (fiery?) wings, two to cover their legs, two to cover their faces, and two to fly with.
The entry also mentions four "special" angels, Gavriel, an angel of fire and heroism, lord of justice. Mi'hael, an angel of the grace of water and snow, lord of light, and warlord of god's army. Ori'el, an angel of enlightenment and intelligence, in charge of the armies of angels and "hell"(not really hell, but I don't know how to translate :\). Repha'el, an angel of healing. These guys symbolize the four elements (AFAIK, Gavriel=Fire, Mihael=Water, Ori'el=Air, Repha'el=Earth). (these guys are nice elemental summons / hero material)
One last thing is that angels could also be manifestation of a natural force.

Enough of angels for you? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

According to Rosemary Guiley, who wrote the book Encyclopedia of Angels, an angel is defined as "a supernatural being who mediates between God and mortals. The angels' primary duty is to shuttle back and forth between realms, bringing human prayers to heaven and returning with God's answers." The term "angel" comes from the Greek "angelos," which means messenger; in Hebrew the term "malakh" also means messenger, and in Persian the term "angaros" means courier.

Angels are grouped into nine different Choirs. Each Choir is a group of angels with the same mission. The nine Choirs are grouped into three classes. Each class contains three groups. The highest class of angels is known as Angels of Pure Contemplation. The three groups in the Angels of Pure Contemplation are the Seraphim, Cheribim, and the Thrones. They are endowed with the highest degree of knowledge and awareness of God. The middle class of angels is known as Angels of the Cosmos. The Angels of the Cosmos consist of the Dominions, Powers, and the Virtues. The Angels of the Cosmos assign the power and instruction they receive from the Angels of Pure Contemplation. The lowest class of angels is known as the Angels of the World. The three groups consist of the Prinicipalities, Archangels, and Angels. The Angels of the World give the power they receive from the Angels of Cosmos to the earth. According to Janice Connell, here is the ranking of angels into a hierarchy:


DIVINITY: UNCREATED ENERGY
CREATION: Created Energy
The Nine Choirs of Angels
ANGELS OF PURE CONTEMPLATION
Govern all Creation
1. Seraphim
2. Cherubim
3. Thrones
ANGELS OF THE COSMOS
Govern all the Cosmos
4. Dominions
5. Powers
6. Virtues
ANGELS OF THE WORLD
Govern all the World
7. Principalities
8. Archangels
9. Angels
Angels of Pure Contemplation:

Seraphim
The Seraphim are closest to God and sometimes referred to as "burning fires of love" because they are angels of the purest love. Rulers of the Seraphim are Seraphiel, Jahoel, Metatron, and Michael.

Cherubim
These are the voices of divine wisdom, possessing a deep insight into God's secrets. Chiefs of the Cherubim are Ophaniel, Rikbiel, Cherubiel, Raphael, and Gabriel.

Thrones
Thrones are the angels of peace and submisssion. They reside in the area of the cosmos where material form begins to take shape.

Angels of the Cosmos:
Dominions
These angels regulate the duties of the angels, making known the commands of God.

Powers
These are known as potentates. They fight against evil spirits who attempt to wreak chaos through human beings. The chief is said to be either Samael or Camael, both angels of darkness.

Virtues
The Virtues are sometimes referred to as "the shining ones." They Govern all of nature. They have control over seasons, stars, moon; even the sun is subject to their command. They are also in charge of miracles and provide courage, grace, and valor.

Angels of the World:
Principalities
These angels have "princely powers" and watch over the actions of the Earth's nations and cities. They also govern and protect religion on earth. Their chiefs are Requel, Anael, Cerviel, and Nisroc.

Archangels
The Archangels communicate between God and mortals. They are also in charge of Heaven's armies in the battle against hell, and supervise the guardian angels. They themselves are guardian angels to great people, such as heads of religions and states.

Angels
These angels are closest to the material world and human begins. They deliver the prayers to God and God's answers and other messages to humans.
All the angels of the nine Choirs are actively engaged in the mission of helping humans gain entrances into the Kingdom of Heaven.


A List of Angels:
Angel Gabriel:
The name Gabriel means "hero of God" or "the mighty one" in Hebrew. Gabriel sits at the left hand of God. Gabriel is connected to the delivery of important news. Gabriel is the angel who announces the coming birth of John the Baptist. Gabriel is best known for announcing the coming birth of Jesus. Gabriel appears to Mary and gives her tidings that she will become pregnant with a child who will be named Jesus. Gabriel is also the angel who appears to Joseph in a dream and warns him to take his family and leave Egypt.

Guardian Angel:
A Guardian Angel is bound to a person from birth to death. Guardian Angels' duties are to provide protection, guidance, and companionship (Guiley). Each human has their own guardian angel assigned just to them.

Michael the Archangel:
The name Michael in Hebrew means "who is like God" or "who is as God." According to the Encyclopedia of Angels, Michael holds numerous offices in heaven. He is the chief of the virtues and archangels, a prince of the presence, and the angel of repentance, righteousness, mercy, and salvation. Michael is the special defender of Catholics and the church. Michael is the angel who wages war against the forces of Satan.

Raphael:
The name Raphael in Hebrew means healer or doctor. Raphael is known as "the medicine of God" or "the shining one who heals." According to Guiley, Raphael is associated with the symbol of healing, is entrusted with the physical well-being of earth and humans, and Raphael is said to be the friendlist of angels. Raphael is the angel of joy, light, peace, prayer, and love.

Michael, Gabriel, Raphael, Anael, Samael, Sachiel, Cassiel:
These seven angels always stand before the face of God. They are entrusted to govern the world.


Planetary Angels:
Sun--Michael
Moon--Gabriel
Mercury--Raphael
Venus--Anael
Mars--Samael
Jupiter--Sachiel
Saturn--Cassiel

Angels of the Days of the Week
Sunday--Michael
Monday--Gabriel
Tuesday--Samael
Wednesday--Raphael
Thursday--Sachiel
Friday--Anael
Saturday--Cassiel

The Hierarchy of Angels
by Melissa Ann Miranda

Re: Byblical Mod Discussion (\"Moved\" from Dom3 for
 

I remember reading something similar when I tried to find news about Dominions. What with both Seraphim and Virtue in the game that has you spreading your dominion... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif