New Borg
 

Ok, after some requests I have posted my modifications to the Borg AI. This was NOT done to step on any toes. I am not out here to say 'my set is better'. These are just my preferences. And to those who wonder why I didn't use Psychic for the Borg, well it just didn't seem right. In the movies they use Trac beams and 'Cutting' beams. So my set uses APB/Trac beams as the weapons.
My modifications were made due to the previous AI of a Borg set that I had from the House of Style/Warpnine site that used missiles but no research for them. It was disturbing seeing them at turn 50 with capital missile 1 and shield 5. Don't even get me started on how they handled the DaveMod.(imagine ships with only ext.missile I everywhere, ugh).
Anyway, to make a LONG post short they are in the shipset section. Enjoy http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
Feedback is appreciated......

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

Thank you very much Deathstalker.
I just had a quick glance at the design file. Was the ship that boarded one of yours a attack ship or a specialized boarding ship? I made the experience that the AI does not engage the specialized boarding ships in combat. In my game they were just sitting in the orbit of a colony and did nothing.
I found twice two double spaced blank lines between the different designs (about in the middle of the file). This might cause a problem: the computer will not read anything below this double empty line IIRC.

Re: New Borg
 

hmmmm......didn't know about the x2 space lines, will have to go find/fix, I assume these were in the designcreation.txt?? The ship that boarded mine was just a regular attackship, light cruiser. I have seen them end up with Ammonkrie ships after engagements too (colony and LC seen in fleets afterwards). Hopefully this is due to the change in the settings file for Optimal firing range 2ndary being Board Enemy ships. Well, off to check on the double spaces, maybe this is why they STILL haven't built units in my current game, or bases. It IS turn 30.

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

found, fixed, posted updated Designcreations txt.

Re: New Borg
 

Found one more bug, the Kamakazie ship has the strategy listed as 'Kamakazie', it should be 'Ram', (syntax change from 1.3 to 1.35 I believe). They are now building units and doing better in the scoring. The only problem I am having now in the game I am playing is the tdm-modpack Xi'Chung are overrunning EVERYBODY. They are beating the snot out of my Y'Gath (due to their lack of point defense vs. parasites) and the Ammonkrie aren't slowing them down either. Luckily I'm a few sectors away. I'm having enough trouble with GE's Klingons (nullspace??ugh!!) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

hmmm. These pre1.19 patch files have lots of different stuff. Its amazing how much has changed since some shipsets were released. Makes you wonder how many were not working right due to the fact that the program didn't report the errors earlier.

Anyway, found one more, also in the Kamakazie ship in the Design_Creation.txt, Combat To Hit Add, should be Combat To Hit Offense Plus (capitals used for first letters, it seems to be case sensitive now).

enjoy....

Re: New Borg
 

Another update.......No corrections....Just to say that the Borg are DEFINITLY boarding ships. Just finished a tac combat where they boarded three of my ships and took control, then I boarded two of theirs and then they boarded and took them BACK!

Resistance IS futile........ http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

bump, well anybody tried my Borg yet?? Any comments??

Re: New Borg
 

I am running your borg, I have not meet them yet.

Re: New Borg
 

For REAL borg, you'll have to mod some new components for them.

(since boarding parties don't work on troops)
-borg troops have Allegiance subverters! Uh, oh! The borg are coming! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

-Organic armor type regeneration for the entire ship http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
That would make for some really nasty, scary borg. Also, make sure they use big, boxy Baseships!!! hehehe.

-Automatic declaration of WAR to every race.

I would really enjoy a borg mod where they get an organic-regenerating copy of every component in the game. With double hitpoints! The entire quadrant would have to join together to stop their incursions!
They would have to be AI'd to declare war instantly, every time. They should call for surrender during every encounter, then kick your *** http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would really like to see a technologically DANGEROUS borg AI. Something that you and some friends could gang up (militarily) against and lose most battles to.

Re: New Borg
 

I am running your BORG AI, with the UCP Borg ship set. I must say, they are not at all friendly. >: They have captured over a 3rd of my fleet, and pushed my boarders back two systems. Additionally, the only that seems to stop them are fighters, but in my Last encounter with them, they developed point defense and nearly beat me. Nice work on the AI. You have made the Borg aggressive and Borg like. Congrats on a job well done.

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"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

Re: New Borg
 

Thank you, Thank you (blush http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif).

I am still tweaking the files myself, they don't develop point defense early enough(in my opinion). The tdm-Xi'Chung can still kick the crap out of them 7/10 times.(thats pretty much the base I use for all my AI tweaking, wether or not they can stand up to the Xi'Chung and the Rage, Damn those AI's are GOOD http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif). That and the Borg fleet values still seem a bit flaky, probally cause its still set for capture enemy ships and not Optimal Firing with 2ndary Capture Ships. But all in all I am pleased with my 2nd attempt at creation http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif. If your looking for something different try my Y'Gathian Free States shipset/race, the shipset isn't the prettiest but the AI rocks (humble opinion).. That and they use BOTH crystal and Organic tech.


------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

I installed your Borg race and got a message about the Assimilator culture not found. What culture would best fit this race (I do not follow Star Trek)?

Re: New Borg
 

As for the race culture, the borg are very, very aggressive and as for the SE4 race styles, i would personally choose berzerkers, since that most accuratly fullfills the gap between SE4 and star trek. I hope this helps...

Re: New Borg
 

Thanks

Re: New Borg
 

I have posted an updated Version of my borg race in the shipset section of the mod area.

The AI has been tested in numerous games with the supplied .emp file and has provided a good challenge, usually running 2nd or 3rd in the 'scores' section (of 10 races).

All ship sizes will now be used, as will additional weapons and even limited fighter use.

Point-def has been made stronger and a few surprises have been added to ship design.

Feedback is more than welcome http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif, this in an ongoing process to help provide new challenges.

Thank you to all who have helped by playtesting previous Versions and letting me know how they are doing....

For any who are interested I will be posting an updated Y'Gathian Free States shipset later on as well, the AI has been tweaked as well to efficiently use the combined crystal/organic tech.

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

Deathstalker,
Have you considered making the Borg a Temporal or Organic race? I have been working on a Version using Organic technology (like the regenerative armour) which seems promising. Am still playing with Research file.

Am reviewing your Last update to see how well I can common up the files so that my Organic variant can be used without anyone having to switch too many files.

Regards,

God Emperor

[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 11 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 11 May 2001).]

Re: New Borg
 

Hmmm, only seem to be able to use the Organic technology in the 5000 pt race. Just seem to need to spend race points on too many other things - eg Propulsion Experts.
Oh well, will keep on working....

PS: I have done a bit of work on some of the AI files that you have left unaltered up to now. Will email you a copy in the next day or so if you are interested.

PPS: My current race style is as follows;

Design Name File := Borg
Race Opt 1 Num Characteristics := 5
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 1 Type := Intelligence
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 1 Amount := 110
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 2 Type := Cunning
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 2 Amount := 90
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 3 Type := Political Savvy
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 3 Amount := 80
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 4 Type := Maintenance Aptitude
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 4 Amount := 105
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 5 Type := Happiness
Race Opt 1 Characteristic 5 Amount := 110
Race Opt 1 Num Advanced Traits := 2
Race Opt 1 Adv Trait 1 := Propulsion Experts
Race Opt 1 Adv Trait 2 := Natural Merchants
Race Opt 2 Num Characteristics := 6
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 1 Type := Intelligence
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 1 Amount := 120
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 2 Type := Cunning
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 2 Amount := 90
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 3 Type := Political Savvy
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 3 Amount := 80
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 4 Type := Maintenance Aptitude
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 4 Amount := 110
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 5 Type := Happiness
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 5 Amount := 110
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 6 Type := Defensiveness
Race Opt 2 Characteristic 6 Amount := 110
Race Opt 2 Num Advanced Traits := 2
Race Opt 2 Adv Trait 1 := Propulsion Experts
Race Opt 2 Adv Trait 2 := Natural Merchants
Race Opt 3 Num Characteristics := 6
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 1 Type := Physical Strength
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 1 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 2 Type := Intelligence
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 2 Amount := 120
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 3 Type := Happiness
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 3 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 4 Type := Political Savvy
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 4 Amount := 80
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 5 Type := Defensiveness
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 5 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 6 Type := Maintenance Aptitude
Race Opt 3 Characteristic 6 Amount := 110
Race Opt 3 Num Advanced Traits := 3
Race Opt 3 Adv Trait 1 := Organic Manipulation
Race Opt 3 Adv Trait 2 := Natural Merchants
Race Opt 3 Adv Trait 3 := Propulsion Experts

[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 11 May 2001).]

Re: New Borg
 

Sure, always interested in new ideas. And as to why I kept the Borg so 'vanilla' (instead of Psychic or Organic) was to keep in flavor with the movies etc. The modds I did to the AI had them boarding in Tac combat quite frequently and subbing say the Alligence Subverter just seemed too much (That weapon still seems like 'cheating' to me, way to easy to get tech/ships, what AI's actually use computers to run thier ships??)

I mainly wanted to give thier ships some 'beefing up', and have them build/research past light cruiser. All in all I am happy so far with the design (currently they are kicking my butt in a game, I have destroyers and they have Cruisers with APB V, only my mines are keeping them at bay.)

And for heavily shielded ships I have them building a variant ship with Shield Depleters and Grav Hellbores, packs quite a punch..... http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: New Borg
 

Yeah SJ, you're damn right ...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
For REAL borg, you'll have to mod some new components for them.

(since boarding parties don't work on troops)
-borg troops have Allegiance subverters! Uh, oh! The borg are coming! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

-Organic armor type regeneration for the entire ship http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
That would make for some really nasty, scary borg. Also, make sure they use big, boxy Baseships!!! hehehe.

-Automatic declaration of WAR to every race.

I would really enjoy a borg mod where they get an organic-regenerating copy of every component in the game. With double hitpoints! The entire quadrant would have to join together to stop their incursions!
They would have to be AI'd to declare war instantly, every time. They should call for surrender during every encounter, then kick your *** http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I would really like to see a technologically DANGEROUS borg AI. Something that you and some friends could gang up (militarily) against and lose most battles to.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Borg should kick *** as no other race would. I never tried them (but will soon) ... so I ask you - how is the assimilation simulated. Did you find a way that one Borg ship can spy out and replicate the technology of an enemy ship?

It would be cool to have a borg ship at low tech spying out the higher tech of an enemys ship ... then during battle or between to battles they should modify (=upgrade) their weapons (in space) and attack the more advanced enemy suddenly with his own equipment. Might be a mixture of psychic and organic tech tree or something completely new.

Is it possible to create such a race in the game?

ZzZ

[This message has been edited by ZzZ (edited 11 May 2001).]

Re: New Borg
 

Deathstalker I found a small bug in the design vehicles file: The attack ship designs have no weapons included that are present at the beginning of a game with low starting technology. That makes it impossible for the AI to build any attack ships. In fact they start building two troop transport ships, which is not very useful.

Re: New Borg
 

God Emperor, could you also email me the updated Borg AI as well. I have reworked the ship set, and would love to include the new AI files you two have made.

Thanks.

Re: New Borg
 

oops, Thanks Q, I had the design files as listing Capital Missile I for secondary wpn family pick but no low tech start for majority wpn pick, will change this to Duc I's, as I almost never play a low tech game (usually play med with 3 starting worlds, high AI and low AI bonus) I didn't pick this up. For those of you that this affects and know a little of modding just open up the Design_Creaions file, set the Majority Weapon Family Pick 3 to 25(which is DUC cannons), should work fine after that.

Like life, its a work in progress http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.

Re: New Borg
 

And on another note, The AI currently does NOT use the 'analyze' button, it will scrap and retrofit but I have NEVER seen it use anlyze. Does anyone know why?

If I am right and the AI cannot currently use this feature then boarding ships as a whole are not worth it. As you can only repair tech that you have actually researched/know then taking a heavily damaged ship will only be a drain on your resources. I really don't want to have to use Alligence Subverter for the Borg, but I may have to do a Psychic/Organic Version if this 'bug' keeps up.

Re: New Borg
 

Just give the borg really low maintenance, then capturing ships will not drain resources.

Re: New Borg
 

Suicide_Junkie,
I agree. Maintenance Aptitude and Mining Aptitude are the options I employ on most of my AI to assist them with having big fleets.

ZzZ,
A Borg racial trait could be developed to do what you want I think. It could include low space repair bays (to give that regenerative aspect), ship capture (or Allegiance subVersion, whichever works best), special weapons etc.
What do you think?

hmmm, might make it my next project! (Have actually. Have developed a Borg racial trait, but, have encountered a significant inconvenience with Emp files and the racial traits file - see new thread).



[This message has been edited by God Emperor (edited 12 May 2001).]

Re: New Borg
 

ZzZ,
Your wish is granted.
I have posted a Borg Variant in the mods/archive. These Borg have their own Research technology and are designed for Destroyers and Point Defence at game start. As such they are very nasty and kick ***!

Regards,
God Emperor

PS: If anyone expresses an interest, I may do a mod for the basic game too....

Re: New Borg
 

Deathstalker I finally started a new game with your Borg. I am now at stardate 2405.0. It is still to early to make an true evaluation, but one point I observed: They build a lot of troops transports.
Have you a special intent with these ships? I never saw an AI make good use of them until now and the ones I saw in your race were also just sittng in the orbit of the colonies. I know you want your Borg to board ships and probably conquer planets, but as long as the troop transports are not included in fleets with special orders (both is until now not possible as far as I know), I see no real use of troop transports for the AI.
Oh by the way I included a test Version of my Psycho-Borg in the game (psychic technology of the CueCappa and politics/anger files of the Borg). I am very eager to see the two Borg meet!

Re: New Borg
 

Stardate 2410.0. Your Borg are 5. of 14 empires. They have contact with two empires (Illuminati, Ixaris) and are at war with both of them. So far so well.
They have 14 (!) troop transport ships but still not developped troops! That I think should be changed.

Re: New Borg
 

Thats odd.......My current game (of turn 33) they have lots of attack/defense ships. Not a troop ship in sight. the only others are ship yard ships, a few bases and a lone kamakazie ship. Will have to delve into the research/planet_construction files later today.

thanx......

------------------
"The Empress took your name away," said Chance.
Owen smiled coldly. "It wasn't hers to take. I'm a Deathstalker until I die. And we never forget a slight or an enemy." -Owen Deathstalker.