Helicopter Damage.
 

I was just wondering, for the longest time why helicopters retreat off the map after taking just 1 point of damage. I mean that most helicopters are armored, so when it gets hit by small arms fire, shouldn't it stay longer in the field? Any thoughts?

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

I wish my opponents helicopters would do that. I've damaged at least 5, some with as many as 3-5 points and they won't leave and they are not even armored gunships. They just keep launching rocket volleys at my BMP-2's. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Yeah, I know exactly what you are talking about, attack helos are not destined to be that fragile IMHO. I´m kind of used to it anyway, and eventhough there´s always mobhack, for some reason helos always tend to be that way; and I guess there should be a reason because this helo behavior ain´t new, though it´s up to the team to decide if it should be revised.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Could we please have a bit more detail about this?

There are SIX helicopter classes in WinSPMBT. Could you each tell me which classes you are dealing with ? It will make answering so much easier. Some are reporting helos running off map with one point of damage and yes, I have seen this as well. Mike reports some of his opponents helos have taken 3-5 points. That's a big difference and with six classes of helos to account for it would be nice to know exactly which ones we are discussing

Don

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

It's June 83 and my OPP is the US and is using a mixture of the AH-6J LBirds and the UH-1D Huey's. I've shot down several but several more have taken at least 3 points of damage and are still flying over the field of battle. Some of them have been hit for additional 1+ points here and there.

They all seem to run away when hit but not off the map (they are still in visual most of the time). I foolishly didn't purchase enough ADA stuff. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

I believe they both can take 5-6 points of damage before being destroyed.

My point was I haven't seen too many run away that often where they actually leave the map that many others have reportedly seen.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Being damaged means receiving SIGNIFICANT damage, even if it is just one point. Not every rifle bullet that physically hits the helicopter results in a point of damage. Personally I've regularly seen helicopter get hit by (small arms) fire resulting in no damage points.
As soon as you do receive one or more points of damage that means that some degree of significant damage has been done to degrade the combat effectiveness of a very expensive and complicated piece of machinery to the point it is considered wiser to return to base and have the trouble fixed than to run the risk of not getting the chopper back to base. While the fight in SP lasts for a relatively short time (minutes or hours at most), in 'reality' that chopper would preferably have to live and fight another day. So when damaged it flies back to base to get checked out/repaired.

As to damaged choppers staying on the map, it is possible if you manage to rally them each turn and fly back to the action. They'll still try to retreat off map at the end of each turn but if the choppers stay on map (they're either to slow or the map too large) it's possible to keep them on map for a while. Maybe that's what you're seeing in your game?

Narwan

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

helicopters will go home when damaged - as do planes.

If an aircraft is damaged, the pilot does not knowif the damage will bring him down eventually, or not till he gets the crate back to the mechanics at base.

Pilots do not like the idea of falling out of the sky, so choose caution.

ANY damage that gets past an aircraft's armour protection (if any) is therefore an RTB item. (If damaged to the full extent of their survivability, it is crash in flames time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

However, Helicopters CAN sometimes hang around for a move, before going back to base, especially if carrying troops, it gives you a chance to drop the pax on map. Depends on morale and experience, and if you can rally them. Though sometimes id rallied they will still go home. You cannot force a pilot with an unserviceable bird that may drop out of the air at any moment from returning to base.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Yes we changed this for winspww2. You get all the hit reports now. They have been in the game for awhile but they were not reported. Previously the only report that would come in was when you did take damage. Now we report when hit's are taken right from the start so you will see more hit reports but only a few may cause damage. This is to alert the player he's starting to take hit's so he can take evasive action before those hits become damage OR if he so chooses to press on but now he's being alerted that his choppers are taking potentially damaging ground fire

Don

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Intrestingly enougth in the run up to the LZ X-ray campaign we where messing around with the comand helicopter and put two points of armour all over it, becuase we wanted it to hang about at high altitude.

I still had one winged by an AK round and retreat.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

US transport helicopters did not have standard floor armor until after Operation Just Cause in Panama. This means that even the first iterations of the UH-60 were not armored in many places. Most early helicopters were even more sensitive than current ones and armor only adds weight and reduces control. I would say that a closer inspection of non-dedicated gunship helicopters would show that most helicopters are in fact not armored, or at least not as armored as you would seem to think. Helicopters to this day are extremely vulnerable to accurate ground fire.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Any time I take\buy\get helos in any scen, they usually get hit by a max range, 1% chance manpad, take 1 damage and retreat straight away.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

I've had Apaches get hit by AK-47s, 1 point of damage, and retreat off map...

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Well there was that farmer that popped an apache with and AK or some sort of bolt action rifle and brogught it down. I remember seeing it all over tv during the 2003 invasion of iraq.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Helicopters are extremely fragile when it comes down to it, whether you want to believe it or not. Their immense utility in combat and having changed the face of it forever is what keeps them in active frontline use, but people are always trying to deal with the inherent fragility of the concept. Imagine, for an instant, that 1 point of damage is all in the tail rotor assembly. When you take into account the size of the aircraft, the tail rotor hub is relatively small, but if it is destroyed, the system becomes virtually uncontrollable. Same deal with any serious damage to portions of the main rotor hub, individual rotors, and on newer helicopters the computer flight systems (blamed in the UK for a number of accidents involving their CH-47 fleet).

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

After seeing a vid ground test on a CH-47, where there was a slight problem with the rotors I'd say any helicopter thats damaged should get on the ground sharpish.

For those of you who want to know, the helicopter was tied down and filmed. It started shaking, then the fusalauge started warping left and right. Finaly the rear engine houseing collapsed into the cargo bay. The total time was about a minute.

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Well I can understand the instinct of life preserving of the pilots. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

BUT some chopers should be MORE RESISTANT to small fire arms like Apaches, Supercobras and other gunship of that sort. I can remember that in the initial version of Steel panther2 (1997) helicopters could fight after taking substentials damages (more than one point) so MAYBE if some let say experienced crews(veterans and elites) of gunships success in a rally check maybe then those helicopters could continue the fight. In my humble opinion most of the players would agree to my point of view. After all its very frustrating to have nice killing birds and see them turn their bleeding noses toward mother base to seek shelter... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Cheers

Vincent

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Apaches, Hinds etc have armour - this stops a certain level of AAA fires from having any effect. The hit simply becomes a no-effect one. But if any does get through causing damage, planes and helos RTB. This has been the case since SP1/2/3 days.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Helicopter Damage.
 

Only certain parts of AHs are armored. But the one biggest part isn´t, the rotor. So burst of small arms will damage it, and ricochets may damage other vulnerable top parts, like the rotor carriage.