Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

Using SPWW2 Long Campaign.

Formed up in June 1941 using a Medium Tank Battalion of 32 x T-26 M1939s.

First battle was a DRAW, lost 12 tanks and 54 men, but destroyed 2 German Tanks, 3 German Mortars/Guns, and 261 men.

The T-26s and BT-7s get a lot of bad press, but in 1941, they really aren't that bad of a tank; everyone fixtates on the mighty T-34, and forgets that the majority of the tank parks for everyone was relatively light vehicles; and in 1941, the Infantry really did not have very good anti-tank weapons, making a charge by a Battalion of T-26s a deadly thing to German Infantry.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

Battle 2: DRAW

1 x T-26 Destroyed, 4 AT Guns destroyed, 43 men lost.

vs

10 x Pz IIIs destroyed, 91 German Troops lost.

I bought a AT-Gun Battery composed of 47mm L3x guns, along with several companies or was it platoons of conscript infantry to support my core tank battalion, and laid them out like so

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/245...e2startbu3.gif

with my Tank Battalion sitting in reserve, and the conscripts and ATGs screening them.

Final Battle Results:

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/5553/battle2ka4.gif

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

Nice !
The only problem with those nice little tanks is the poor crew quality if you oppose a significant number of PzIII or better.
In my ongoing pbem (So delay vs Ge advance in 41) all my little tanks are Panzer-fodder as they fire twice and don't def fire when the Panzers fire 4-5 shots in each phase, and with better to hit chances !

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Sadly the poor crew quality is historiacl truth. In the first months of the Barbarossa thousands of light tanks were lost. T-34 and KV were lost too, but they were hard for Germans to crack, and usually delayed Germans considerably. In the rare instaces then new tanks had expirienced crew results were devastaing for Germans.
A single KV-2 stopped 6th panzer division for day at Rossenij crossroad. Latest data hint that it was crewed by Winter War vetreans. Then at winter Katukov 1st tank brigade was formed, and he'd shown what T-34 can really do with good commander.
Another problem of Russian tanks in the first years of the war was not sufficient amount of mech infantry and artillery in tank formations.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Yep, I know it's historical, but soooo frustating when you want to send those Nazis back to their lair and out of the Motherland ! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

The most vicious battle I've ever been in so far; the defense of Hill xxx

Link to 500~ kb GIF showing the entire front

My losses:
190 men
5 AT Guns
14 Tanks

German losses
339 men
32 Tanks

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

How do you manage to *not* get wiped when fighting panzers ?

The last experience I have ('41 Sov defense vs Ge advance) was as follows :
Ge Turn : Panzers advance, Sov tanks that were in ambush don't react, Panzers fire 2-4 times each and smoke Sov tank, repeat.
So turn: Sov tank moves, get a hail of reaction fire as soon as seen, get smoked, repeat.

That was even true with T34s, they were just sturdier... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

How do you manage to *not* get wiped when fighting panzers ?

Two ways:

1.) I lay out a thin screen of infantry and AT Guns in front of whatever I'm defending; and I place my tanks in hidden positions.

This makes the Panzers waste their shots on my thin screen; while a few of them get brewed up by the AT Guns.

If there's a danger of a breakthrough; I send my tanks forth and counter it.

2.) Sheer weight of numbers. If you're attacking 4 Panzer IIIs, attack with at least 10~ or more tanks.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 1945
 

I find another good way is defend with reverse slope and point blank tactics. Most german tanks will be brewed up before they get a chance to shoot.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Yeah, I thought that too during my game, but my opponent didn't fall for it and just flanked the hill ... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif Against AI it should be dreadful though.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Playing a similar campaign, got ahistorical mixed force, but generally a tank bn (BT-7 model 1937 co, T-26 model 1939 co, T-28 co (7 tanks), some AA trucks, a platoon of 76mm model 1936 guns, mortar platoon, BA-20M AOP, 76mm off map Bty and some scout units with Komsomolet's).

Battle 1, delay.
frontline consists of ifantry co with 6 45mm ATG's (support units) supported by T-26's, BT's and T-28's, of each company part is in reserve. Defenses on reverse slope except 45mm ATG's, which are a bit behind with good fields of fire.
76mm guns even behind them.
The 76mm fire is deadly - if it hits.
45mm fire is deadly - if it hits.

So far loses are rather minor and I'm beginning to reclaim victory points with a massed counterattack of BT's and T-26's. In the center bulk of Panzers got themselves in a trap, with arty buttoning them up and three 76mm and two (check... now just one, darn it) 45mm guns firing at them constantly, tried to "shoot and scoot" with BT's and T-26's with mixed results - while on move they rarely hit a thing. But they've scored a good amount of hits while standing over the slope, ie initial barrage after which they retreated into cover.
Enemy groups of platoon strength on flanks were stopped by pairs of 45mm ATG's and accompanying tanks - T-26's and T-28's.
So far lucky - lost three tanks, one ATG, two more tanks damaged. Enemy arty is far from targets, two Bf109's have missed targets and one of them got downed.
But the accuracy of Soviet tankers is really... Not good http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Yep - you need the guys (both riflemen and tankers) to survive long enough to get to 70 plus experience, and 3-5 kills or so helps this process. once they are there, they are noticeably better than the 57-61 or so they start off at.

The 45mm gun is reasonably effective even frontally up to 300m or so as and until the 5-7 front armour P3s and long 75mm P4 start arriving in mid 42 or so. After that, you really need to fight German armour from short range side attacks. Luckily, they are only around 3 side armour. Even later on the 45mm should be useful, as Panthers are but 5 side, and I should habve T-70 with some APDS by then. (The T60 is useful as infantry support, bought with support points, but I do not see these as forming any part of my core force).

Once you can get the Zis-57, a section of 2 added per tank coy, with a section of kosmolets ammo carriers, if used skilfully is a good boost to a light tank coy. (Less so if BT tanks trying to advance fast though!). A hard-hitting and accurate little SP-ATG. But slow, low ammo, and open topped.

(NB - We made the experimental T-50-57 available for what-if. Only one made, there were problems with fitting the 57 in such a small turret, and the 57mm HE shell was always poor, plus there was never a reliable supply of the APCR round. At the cost, I think I would rather have a T-34 instead though! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif)

I have got a 76mm ATG platoon in the core, origianlly truck towed, now halftrack. Rather useful, even if attacking I push these forward to provide long range overwatches.

I had a section of T-28e to accompany each leg rifle coy, these are now (Late 42, entering Stalingrad battles) M3 Lees, and these are reasonably efective as infantry close support tanks if kept away from any long-75mm German armour.

I bought the infantry batallion support coy as I had 3 rifle coys. Initially I thought the HMG would all be upgraded to AAMG. However I have found that massed HMG are brilliant for defence, and supporting an attack as well. All now 12.7 Dushkas, for really long range support fires - both direct and Z-fires.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

29 of T-34/57 with Zis-4 57mm gun were used in the Moscow battle. (I'm not quite sure, but I think one of these tanks was able to cut through German front line salient and break through on the other side.) Also second batch of T-34/57 with Zis-4M gun was produced in the 1943, to be superceded by T-34/85. I also prefer 57mm gun to 76mm as ATG.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

OK - but I was talking of the T-50-57. It was the intended final armament, but due to the troubles with the production, it did not happen.

T-50 Article

Closer reading of that sems to show that we may need a T-50e uparmoured model as well?.


The T-34-57 (both batches) are already in the game as tank destroyer types.

Cheers
Andy

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

What I find strange about T-50 in game is, that in game it's slower then T-34. I think in reality it was faster and more manuerable(that should translate as even more faster in game). Also T-50 should have better vision or fire control - it had command cupola and T-34 befroe 1943 hadn't. Now, if you have enough points you would be better just buying T-34 instead of T-50 - it better on all parameters.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

I'm playing a similar Soviet '41-'45 long campaign and have completed a couple of battles so far. I must say I normally never play Soviets, I don't likemthat style of fighting, using huuman wave tactics etc... I prefer quality over quantity...

My initial force had about Batallion-strength: I tried to make it balanced: 2 rifle companies, 1 tank company, 1 57mm ATG platoon (3 guns), some arty and attachments. I was aware that morale + experience would be the main drawback - as a concession, I bought T-34s right away in '41 and later I added a KV-1 company, starting with an HQ and slowly expanding, battle after battle.

The initial battles were tough - I was mostly on deelay or defence, some meetings as well - I tried to let the enemy come, deploy my forces carefully and keep my tanks in reserve. This usually saved my *** - one line of infantry just isn't enough if a full Panezrabteilung with inf support is attacking, overrunning my men. My A/T guns proved to be very effective but not survivable at all. I also relied on 37mm AA guns to cover my rear - they hardly ever hit a plane and even though capable to take out medium tanks, they have only 5 shots of AP ammo and hardly ever manage to hit anything ...

I also bought a Katyusha battery later on... I find them pretty over-rated, especially when compared with the Nebelwerfer I'm used to!

Soviet arty is a pain - due to low experience it fires usually only after 3.5 turns (!) - for someone like me who until recently only played modern battles in WinMBT that't hard to adjust to... also, German counter-battery fire is a problem if your own guns fire once in a while and are swiftly taken out of action...

The T-34s and KV-1s, on the other hand, are life-savers: I hardly ever lost one of them, and if, then it usually got immobilized by slow, friendly arty fire while making a counter-attack. Also, the tankers are almost blind, so having scouts and M/C scouts in cooperation is an absolute necessity.

I tried to keep the tank company closely together to make up for the incompetent crews - this proved to be effective, even if 9 out of tanks firing opportunity fire miss, one guy in the company will be lucky and then its usually a kill!

After a couple of battles, I added a 2nd 57mm ATG platoon and a 76mm platoon - well, when they become experienced, they are great. Same is true for all units. Luckily I'm still in '41 and haven't had to attack so far... but I already got introduced to the deadly '88, securing the artillery batteries which I once tried to destroy in a counter-attack...

In general, so far playing the Soviets is much more fun than expected - I'm looking forward to see how things go when the Germans start to receive better tanks...

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

I'm playing russain long campain too.
Don't worry about buying KV and T-34 in 1941 - it's completly historical. They were staple of tank brigades in 1941.
Stalin ordered formation of tank brigades in august, after RKKA Mech Corps were bleeded dry in huge border tank battles.
For example here is 142 tank brigde equipment on the september 1 1941:
KV-1 7
T-34 22
T-26 57 (light tanks of tank brigades vary - could be T-60, BT, T-38, T-40 etc)
AA guns 12
ATG 8
mortars 12
LMG 43
SMG 181
rifles 551

trucks 202
utility vehicles 15
tractors 8
Most actively used were of cause T-34. KV-1 were slow and often couldn't manage to reach fight in time. Light tank were fragile. Tank brigade commanders often complain that the only tanks they really coul use were T-34.

Re: Soviet Tank Battalion 22 June 1941 - 8 May 194
 

Excellent AAR,

Good Hunting, PanzerBob