Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I was just thinking about what SE IV could use...

Remember in Space Empires III when you set up an Empire, you could specify what level of tech they had in any tech area? I really liked that.

I would like to see that feature implemented into Space Empires IV because I think it would add more to the game - especially the AI. Instead of everyone starting at the same tech level, you could give the AI a variety of advanced techs - while you fuddle around with research and such. For example, you could give the "Borg" maximum levels of tractor beams and shield depleters at the start of the game - that would make them all the more challenging.

Also, the tech levels would be saved in the .EMP files and you could even created specialized tech levels for different MODS.

What do you guys think?

I think it would be possible to add in one of the upcoming patches - Aaron already has most of the code from SE III, he would just have to modify it somewhat to be compatible with SE IV and create some new buttons, selections, and a window or two.

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Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I agree. In fact, it was one of my game inprovement suggestion to Aaron in a previous thread. If you can get him on board with this, you'll be a hero in my book. http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

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"We've made too many compromises already, too many retreats! They invade our space and we fall back -- they assimilate entire worlds and we fall back! Not again! The line must be drawn here -- this far, no further! And I will make them pay for what they've done!" -- Patrick Stewart as Captain Picard
UCP/TCO Ship Yards

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I coudn't agree more and it has been suggested several times before. But if we repeat it from time to time it might be included in a future patch.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Not having starting tech levels is ok if you are just playing against the computer. You can mod whatever you want and not necessarily give yourself an advantage over the computer. However, the lack of starting tech levels is what is keeping my co-workers from buying the game and playing at work. The game is a lot more fun and challenging against human players because you just don't know what they are coming at you with.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

This feature would be especially good if you could use it with the map editor - for example you could have an empire with their home system(s) behind a whole string of nebulae. Give them advanced propulsion and supply storage from the start and they would have an interesting defensive advantage.

Or how about an ancient race in the centre of a map with no warp points? All the human players start with diplomatic contact with the ancients, who have warp point creation tech. You have to persuade the ancients (one way or another) to open a warp point to your system so that you can explore beyond your home wihout researching stellar manip. Either that or steal the tech from them=-)

You could also use neutral empires a bit like the "ruins" planets - give a neutral some huge tech level or other so that other empires can race to assimilate them for the tech.

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Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

If it is done, a change should be made. In SE III you simply got a certain number of levels instead of research points. The problem was that everything was counted evenly. You could get 5 levels of ship construction for the same price as 1 level of 5 different weapon techs while in terms of the amount of RP's needed, the 5 levels of ship construction cost like ten times more.

What would be great would be to have like a mini research window. For each .emp file, you would open it up and then start adding levels. The form would sequentially add up each increasing level you chose just like you were researching it in the game so essentially, the costs of starting game tech is exactly that of the tech troughout the rest of the game. It would be kind of like the first turn (when everyone blows there research wad), but you would have alot more points and be able to get multiple levels.

[This message has been edited by nerfman (edited 02 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nerfman (edited 02 May 2001).]

[This message has been edited by nerfman (edited 02 May 2001).]

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

This is an excellent idea to add uncertainty and variety to the game. I'd vote for it!

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

God suggestion, I definitely vote for it.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Put me down as a 10 http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

What you REALLY want is a SaveGameFile Editor. This would allow you to do everything that the map editor does, PLUS edit ships, techs, pops, facilities -- in other words, everything.

You could make an enemy with low tech but a big empire. Or an enemy with high tech but a small empire. Or an enemy with sparsely-populated planets with horrible conditions (due to their recent civil war). Or a galactic invader with huge ships and no planet at all (to begin with).

And you could make your own scenarios, such as:
A galaxy-wide catastrophe (roll for it each turn); or
No warp points at first, then someone discovers them, then the knowledge gets transmitted every time first contact is made; or
Natural warp points gradually wink out; or
A race is taken over by its own robots; or
Your mega-empire has a civil war and splits into two.

AND you could merge SEIV with other games. For instance, if you want more hands-on control of space or ground combat, just use your favorite tactical or first-person combat game to determine the results of an SEIV combat. Then use the Editor to override the default SEIV results.

[This message has been edited by dmm (edited 02 May 2001).]

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by dmm:
What you REALLY want is a SaveGameFile Editor)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes - the ideal would be to copy the one in Civilization II, where you could open the editor at any point in a game, change literally anything, then save it as a scenario.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I would vote for the scenario editor. The Map Editor is nice, but I think the scenario editor is needed far more to give people real creative control over their scenarios.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

The Scenario Editor sounds like a lot of work for Aaron. It might be a very long time before we would see one...

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Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by capt_spoogy:
The Scenario Editor sounds like a lot of work for Aaron. It might be a very long time before we would see one...
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
All we need are two programs -- one that translates the SaveGameFile into ASCII, and another that translates ASCII into a SaveGameFile. Both of these should be easy for Aaron to write. (Or Aaron could just explain the format of the SaveGameFile.) Then modders could write nice user interfaces for changing the ASCII, which would be the hard part. That's basically the way things were done for C&C Red Alert and for X-Wing.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I'm actually pretty good at doing front end programming. If Aaron would like to put out documentation for the layout of the savegame files, I would be glad to volunteer my time to create a scenario editor. I know there are other good programmers on this forum as well and I'm sure some of them would volunteer as well. Maybe we can even split up the work and get it done faster...

All Aaron would have to do is put out the savegame file layout documentation. =)

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Yeh, but making the save game files open source will enable people to devise hacks for save game files that could mean a lot more cheating in pbem. I would be in favor of the editor and I only play w/ trusted friends anyway, but I just wanted to voice a trade off that would arise.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Here's my suggestion... make this part of "racialabilities.txt", it would need a tag like follows:

Number of Extra Techs := 4
Extra Tech Name 1 := Physics
Extra Tech Level 1 := 2
Extra Tech Name 2 := Phased Weapons
Extra Tech Level 2 := 1
Extra Tech Name 3 := Shields
Extra Tech Level 3 := 3
Extra Tech Name 4 := Sensors
Extra Tech Level 4 := 1

That way you can create "tech sets" for diffrent "themes" or Races AND charge points for them!

If your playing in a mid tech game... the "Raise level" value in "techarea.txt" affects the racial level not the normal level... and in a full tech game, the starting points are refunded to the race so they can buy other advanced traits.


[This message has been edited by Trachmyr (edited 02 May 2001).]

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Another way is that you have a racial trait say called " Advanced Reasearch Race" worth 3000 points.
You then have them get an extra 10,000 RP for the entire game that way they get a big boost at the start but it does not really make that much difference later on.

Could do the same for Intel projects as well.

Could even have a race that can build any one project in one turn with a boost ablility for no extra cost in resources.

But I also liked the extra tech level boost from SE3 but with RP then this will be hard to do.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Trachmyr,
Does that idea work?
You could create an unlimited number of combinations or you could even assign every tech branch a value, say 50 points for level 1 APB but 1000 points for level 1 physics, and everyone could pick and choose their race techs.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

No, it does not work... it would need to be implemented by MM, it was just an "alternative" suggestion to the SE3 style... I think it would be easier to implement in this form, as it could use many of the same algorithims that the game already uses to determine tech at the game start, it would also give races more of a unique "tech"-personality from the start of the game.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Too bad http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif, it's a great idea.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

I truly believe that the best way to do is like it was done in SE III. A player is given a set number and can choose whatever, as long as the prerequisites are met (must choose organic to open up organic tech etc...). Each RANDOM computer race could have their levels part of the _general.txt file, while the humans, and human added computer players, could acutally choose. It would be possible to select computer races and make them VERY tough. If an option is "100 starting tech levels" the humans could agree to use 20 and let the computer players use all 100. That would definitely make for some serious butt-kickings.

Re: Bring back SE III Player Tech Levels!
 

Count my vote. I also miss that feature from SE3. I really like the idea of setting up AI opponents with different advanced traits - not necessarily racial traits, just advanced. Like what was mentioned for the Borg.

For instance, you could advance 1 AI's troops, another AI's fighters, anothers missle tech. Then you wouldn't really know what defensive position you should be focusing on untill you actually meet the AI. As it is, it just seems I'm always ahead of the AI tech whenever we meet except in very early contact.

Of course, many have already stated many more detailed examples and some have done a good job of this with mods, but it would be very nice to do this kind of thing 'on the fly'...