Official SE5 release date announced - September 12
 

http://www.strategyfirst.com/press/D...ArticleID=3296
Yeah, it's not August, but it's not that far off anyway! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif
Though I wish the boxart was a bit more "glowy space combat" and less "brooding Jraenar infantry", I guess the boxart doesn't matter, it's what's inside that counts, right? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

The game is pretty cheap imho.

edit: that will probably mean 2-3 more weeks coding, afterwards the game will go gold which usually 3-4 weeks.
Is 3 weeks enough to make the game worthwhile ? im curious http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Who is saying the game isn't worthwhile now?

$40 is an excellent value.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I would also keep in mind (based on his history with SE4) that Aaron is always committed to fixing bugs and adding player-suggested improvements well after the usual two month patch window of most other games. By releasing in September, instead of trying to aim for a December release of the holy grail (e.g. a bugless game), the fans benefit from being able to suggest improvements and provide feedback.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

This is dead argument. I would rather have a bugfree game, then a bug-filled (or even only with occasional bugs) game 3 months earlier. Its easy, releasing a bugged game earlier will allow the producer to earn money "earlier". Since a decent game usually earns you a load of $$$ you not only win a lot on interests, but "patching" will require less work than a "full" day of coding for a proper release.
There are so many examples of this...MoO3, Civ4, HoMM5, Titan Quest etc ++
In response to your "the fans can ask for suggestions" thingy -> what exactly makes it different, if the fans ask for support in september or december :p

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

There have been rumblings from beta testers that SE:V isn't 'done'. Without much detail.

As for a publisher-pushed release date- I doubt it. I don't trust SF, but they'd have more to gain from a delay. Publishers LOVE November/December releases, for example..unless perhaps they thought SE:V would get lost in the flood.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I recall SFI waited to release SE:IV Deluxe in stores after December for that reason.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Titan Quest is already in the "Halls of Shame", I see http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif That's not really fair, though, considering that half of it works half the time, and that 25% is very fun. For some reason, people (probably nVidia users) seem very willing to forgive/defend Civ4... not me, though.

Games get reviewed at release. If a 'C' game at release is patched a month later to be an 'A' game, it will still eternally have 'C' reviews, and have sold like a 'C' game for the first month... and forever after, because in month 2, people will still see 'C' reviews. I understand why people ship an F- piece of trash, and patch it later so it won't delete your registry anymore... since in another 2 months, it would basically be an F- piece of trash with slightly more obsolete graphics. But I don't understand why people spend years developing an 'A' game, and ship it 2 months early as a 'B-' game.

Not to say this is happening here; I have no idea, and I'm not commenting on Space Empires (though I do wonder if GalCiv2 is stable yet). But in general, this whole concept of "faster and brokener" that plagues computer games is utterly baffling to me, since it is so obviously idiotic and self-defeating. Even the excuse 'I thought it was done' is obsolete in elementary school, when you find out that turning in a test as soon as you have scrawled something by every question does not magically grant you a better score than people who take time to make sure the answers are right.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I still have some graphics issues with Civ4 on my ATI card. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

For some reason Civ4 tends to crash to the desktop during wonder movies. Recently however I've had two consecutive occasions where, right after the game zoomed in on a city where I'd just built the Pyramids, it crashed my entire system and gave me a weird kind of BSoD I'd never seen before. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif Ah well. The rest of the game is OK though IMO http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I hope you are correct. But, there are two things that could possibly work against this:

1. It takes two for patches. Both the developer and the publisher must support the game. Aaron wanting to update the product doesn't work if SF won't allow it. And SF has a record of not supporting releases for long. Look at JA and many of their other titles. They are still selling half completed games from 3-4 years ago.

2. Aaron is no longer an independent contractor and now, more than ever, not in control of his game. Malfador is now SF.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Face up to the times! MONEY / GREED drives just about every business decision these days. Even if Arron is not ready to release SEV there will be pressures by SF to get it out. All business's have their "profit schedule" for the end of the year business projections. You as a consumer, will never know "what goes on behind closed doors" when it comes to product releases. I've seen companies put garabage out, knowing that they'd have to rework the product, just to meet their promised delivery date. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Be careful of what you ask for, you may just get it!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

You can wait until the year 2047 and there will still be bugs; every game ships with bugs. There are millions of possible computer configurations out there, and it's impossible to thoroughly test them all. If you want homogenized hardware, buy a Mac and enjoy the two or three games that are available for it.

Personally, I'm drooling over fully scriptable AI. I can't wait to start tinkering...

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I seriously hope you dont want to argue over bugs. If you compare todays games with the ones from 10 years ago, you will see a rise in bug/problems within the hundreds %. And most of the bugs we are talking about are NOT, i repeat NOT, referring to system/setup, but rather a failure in the GAME itself.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Of course, the games of 10 years ago were much less complex beasts... But even 10 years ago there were tons of games knowingly shipped with bugs. There was never this utopian ideal of bug-free game shipping at any point in history.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Examples ? I cant imagine a single decent game from 10 years ago which, in relation, was as bugged as todays games.
And even though games get more complex (I dont think todays game are more complex, only from a graphical point of view), today a game has much more development time (3-4 years today, 1-2 years 10 years ago?) AND ***much*** more development game and progressivly more developers.

Face it, the industry is milking us/their customers. Every recent game had patches coming out not even a WEEK after the game was available in retail.
10 years ago, i can barely imagine patches at all (compared to today), and even if there were patched, there were definitly no game-breaking bugs/problems. Today every major game is rushed and released bug, there is no doubt about it.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Well, lets see..aside from the DOS configuration nightmares, which meant some games never really would work, you had:

1998: Extreme PaintBrawl!: shiped with NO AI. Players often got caught on geometry. Was given *two weeks* coding time, start to finish.

1997: Streets of Simcity: So badly coded the framerate dropped to single-digits when more than one car was on-screen

1995: Mechwarrior 2. Some verions released without a functioning mechlab (equivilent: if SE4's ship-design screen didn't work). Many problems with joysticks, crashes under Windows 95, hanging on exit, etc.

And that's just from a 5 minute search.

EDIT: a search of Google Groups gives people *****ing about "patch a day" syndrome back in 1997, as well..oh, and the infamous tendancy of patches to make your saved games not work.

Fallout is getting to that age as well, and it has quite the slew of bugs.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I guess known of these will count as decent games, but i can name a few and interestingly the first 3 all tied to windows. Serria's SpaceBucks only need one patch but with out that patch game could not be finished, sierra's outpost (the first one) Shipped incomplete had patches that followed, certain aspects of game where still broken.
Battlecrusier3000......... any way i currently have over 100 games in my closet going as for back as 15 years.
every that went by problems became more common. they increases with Windows. the more lines of code you have in a program more potential for problems, games having been getting larger, now run primary run in windows (itself a source of game issues) window pacthes have broken games. graphics is a source of problems because they are now render objects, their not static images.
Some bugs that may cause serious issues may only show up in limited situations, may be known about but have yet to be isolated (while windows itself not game' its MS practice to ship a buggy product get jump on possible competition.The First release of windows 95, it had a known memory leak, patch made it 95a, patch was even ready at time 95 hit the shelves)
showed a game ship with major bugs no, but i would truly be surprised if there where none, and i personally know of case where testers tried to conceal a bug from the game creators, in order to exploit it later.(that attempt failed in part because they couldn't keep their mouths shut)
Some bugs literally nothing more then a single value being entered wrong, but causing an issue some where else, that has no direct connection to it.
I remember a an assembly program i had to create in electronics class it was short had only a sinlge error, but more time to find it then create the program in the first place, reason program essentially erased everything from just above the error to the end of program. the problem was in how it was entered, but since that was gone.....
minor bugs i would complain about biggies yeah those should be fixed be fore release, and probably will.
most of the bugs in SEIV that i'm aware of have not caused me to much grief

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

To be fair here, one week after retail release does not equal one week developer time. To go Gold, the situation would generally go something like so (completely making up amount of time here, but 4 weeks sounds very reasonable to me): 28 days before release, software is frozen; 26 days before, everything is packaged together for easy installation; 25 days before, you start pressing discs and stuffing boxes; 7-10 days before, you load up trucks and ship to distribution centers/stores; then the game is released in retail everywhere at the same time. That leaves developers with about 3 weeks of time to continue testing, bug squashing, and planning new features to either make it into patches, or expansion packs. So patches coming a week after retail release could very well represent another month of developer testing.

As for patches, I see SF as taking advantage of the precedent set in SEIV. If they want to keep Aaron on as one of their developers (since the SE series is a labor of love; why else work on it for over a decade, largely by himself?), they will likely support patches through Spring '07 (May?), but then they will probably want a Classic/Gold split or "Expansion Pack". That could come around Summer '07 (August?), and then we have another period of patches working up through Winter '08 (March?). I could also see SF hiring some developers to create "official" mods for the game. User mods will still be big in the core fan community, but it would be hard for hobbyist modders to top an experienced design team working full time on a mod (and one that is officially pushed by the publisher, at that). I fully expect that SF will eventually hire a game designer, a writer, and a few modelers, and make a mod that is to SEV as Counter-Strike is to Halflife. New races with new descriptions and backstories, new technology trees, possibly unique to each race, and a slew of pre-made scenarios.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

People, it wont help you naming one bugged game for all 3 years. I was explicitly asking for TOP games.
Top as in 2005/2006 = Civ, Homm, TQ, Sacred, Vampire Bloodlines etc ++.
EVERY game (with a *FEW* exceptions, usually shooters) these days is bugged.

No offense, but what exactly is your point here ? Games shouldnt be pressed if they are bugged. Thats an easy point imho. Developers/Sellers are playing with your money, easy as it is.
Would you buy a car whichs brakes arent working, in mind "oh well they will work in 2 weeks.".
Or maybe "oh well they MAY work in 2 weeks" ?

There is no way to argue about that.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced
 

I agree for the most part with Ragnarok on this one. Games these days are more "bugged" than the past and it is partly due to cutting expenditures and rushing titles. Although I will also contend that the games are much more complex and have to be able to run on some many different system configurations that it will be difficult, if impossible, to achieve bug-free releases when releasing to the mass market. Perhaps in this case an open-beta could help. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

You've obviously never had a car recalled.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

funny i named 3, you references past 10 years, the First comand and conqueror game had several issues patched after release, one bug actully allowed a player to place a building anywher on the map, well beyond ones on base.
sevearal other of the C&C games also had patches, just because you may not haave problem with game doesn't mean its bug free. just means you have not don anything to trigger it.
i remember a game near the end a certain spot, would be termeminal , would load a previous save and it would still happen, called it in gave the info and that it repeated. believe it or not they called back an told me the couldn't reproduce it, didn't surprise, since then i had learned the dead spot was random. When you first entered area was when it set, so if your save was before that, the spot would move, after that it was fixed, so if what you needed was not affected by it you would never know it was there.

Hmm TOP games only based on the names you listed that rules out SE

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Dude, I could do this all day. All I did was grab some quick examples.

Are you seriously arguing that Mechwarrior 2 and Quake weren't top games? Because they were both bugged. Fallout might not be considered one based on sales, but it is incredibly favored by the players. Also bugged.

X-Com had a fun little bug where it'd give you all flares to defend your base, and a slew of others.

How about Civilization 2? Auto-settlers would hang the system, using help would sometimes crash the game, lockups under high windows resolutions, AI problems, problems scrolling between cities, autobuild issues, unit abilites that didn't work, population that would reset to zero when it got too high, incorrect turn date tracking, sound card related crashes, and more.

Command and Conquer Red Alert: Patched up to version 1.08. Can't access the patch list, but I know 4 player multiplayer was added in a patch.

HOMM:2 - can't find a patch list but a search turns up numerous bug complaints and crashes, including the choice comment from someone playing a port: he played it to level 9, it crashed twice, and he was VERY PLEASED since it was much more stable than the PC version..

Is that enough examples yet? The only reason to claim older games weren't buggy is nostalgia. Yeah, some of the newer ones are worse than some of the older ones, but it works the other way around as well.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Keep in mind that there is a big difference between a game being released with bugs as compared to a game that has hardware conflicts. With all the vendors out there trying to keep from violating patent laws they are force to "THINK OUTSIDE THE BOX" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif which forces a patch to attempt a fix. ANY game that has been properly playtested should be relativly free of (large) bugs. There is always going to be someone who'll tinker with a game and find bugs. That's because you just can't determine what everyone will end up doing with a game engine. Those are really the people you'd like to have as playtesters. I guess it's like a version of the ink spots. Everyone will see something different/

I believe that SEV has a good group of playtesters and will be released relativly bug free. When you expand the amount of people that get introduced to the game there will be bugs found and patches made for them. Life goes on!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

You should consider the amount of money involved in this. A current game has a budget *several* times higher than the budget of our all beloved oldies.
All of the bugs you mentioned i cant remember. I have played every game from your list, and i dont remember patching at all, especially not to make a game work at all. Of course they are a few things, like the well known fallout, which had plently of bugs. Then again, it is VERY complex, and open. At that time, the industry was not "perfect" enough for such stuff.
Those days i wasnt even able to patch since i didnt had internet and i believe there were many who hadnt.

Just FYI, the games you mentioned were of the top games, but they werent released within a year. You are merely naming a few blockbusters, released over *several* years. As of now, ***every*** major game is usually bugged, and thats considering the market for computergames has grown by a LOT, and with it, the money involved.


Oh, and just as a sidenote, how comes PC-games are bugged all over, while console games usually (99%) arent ? I tell you why: The developer knows pc games can be patched, while console games cant.
So he takes the RISK of distributing BUGGED software by PURPOSE, because it will mean a win in both time, and logically, money.
Your money, and my money.
I seriously dont understand your point of view. You appear to find it okay to buy broken stuff. If so, would you like buying my car ?

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Rag-X, you are splitting hairs here... It doesn't matter if the random samples are all in the same year or not. There were fewer games released each year 10 years ago than today, so how is this requirement even relevant?

Forgetting about bugs is just more evidence pointing to nostalgia. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I remember a lot of bugs in Civ2 that either required patches, or were never fixed.

Console games have always had plenty of bugs. It's a myth that they are 99% bug-free. With a console game, features tend to be dropped wholesale to make the deadline, rather than be left in slightly buggy, since they can't be patched or improved in an expansion.

Also, P-D never implied he likes buying broken things, just that games in the past were no less broken than today.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

..Rag. Do I need to go through and do EVERY released game with a list of bugs, or what? I'm not aruging that bugs aren't a bad thing, only that your perception of older games having drasticlly fewer bugs isn't right.

Console games have bugs as well, just not as much- and a lot of the difference is directly due to the fact that a console has ONE set of hardware, which the dev gets more or less direct access to.

EDIT: and you're changing your argument.
"Examples ? I cant imagine a single decent game from 10 years ago which, in relation, was as bugged as todays games."

Now, unless you want to take the buggiest of today's games unless the LEAST bugs of 10 years ago, that doesn't hold water; I've given you plenty of examples to show that.

And with that I'm out.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Tell a strapping young developer of 20 years to work on a game, and turn it in when it is done and free of bugs, and he will die of old age before submitting for distribution. And what that developer leaves behind will still have bugs.

And re: console games supposedly having fewer bugs. Consoles all have the exact same hardware, with the exact same OS configuration, with the exact same drivers. The majority of big showstopper bugs for PC games only affects a few players, and can often be fixed by uninstalling, upgrading drivers and libraries (DirectX/OpenGL), then reinstalling. But gameplay bugs will always exist, in console and PC games. Law of diminishing returns says eventually you will have to release the game, otherwise you will never recover the costs of making the game in the first place; that's why we will never see a bug-free game worth playing.





(and by worth playing, I mean a tic-tac-toe game, where the game has very few numbers of states that can easily and quickly be enumerated, doesn't count)

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I remember my PC Zone magazine that arrived each month in the later part of the 80:s and the 90:s, eventually it started having floppys and later on CD:s on the cover.
After a while they had two floppies, one with patches and one with demos. The Cd always had a patch section.

About cars.. I have my car at service every year, sometimes to fix bugs ("This is a known bug with this car, the contact is substandard and often glitch", etc"

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Every game wil have a bug the main issue appears to be they shouldnt be shipped with major bugs.
I mean i still dont know how they ever shipped games like Deadlock 2 that wouldnt even run without a patch

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Most of the time, it's a very easy decision to make. It's simply because they don't care.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Big problem with your analogy; vehicles are required to be as "bug-free" as humanly possible because your safety (and life) depend on it! Your life won't hang in the balance if a game has a few bugs, it will if your car does http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Comparing the auto industry with the PC Gaming industry is like comparing a White Dwarf star to a supernova http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Oh well, i have some more arguments at hand but i feel i will be misunderstood because of wrong grammar and/or wording.

At any rate, if you think its okay to buy games or stuff in general which is broken, do so. I simply wont, easy as it is.
And, even considering the amount of critism i got, i cant understand your point of view at all. You are spending your money for stuff that is mostly not working and you think thats fine ? weird.

Anyways, one more thing. You all like the point "oi so many systems, its very hard to make a game bug free".

But you obviously oversee i was clearly referring to GAME bugs, bugs within the code who have absolutly *NO* reference to a system setup. You like the bugs of Civ2 ? Fine, those are GAMEPLAY bugs, within the game, with absolutly no corespondence to a potential different setup.
That also negates the point of "consoles are always the same", because even if they are its not important since the bugs i am talking about are created not by graphical issues (which is usually the problem with hardware-based bugs) but gameplay bugs.
And, once again, these days almost every major game is retailed, with a patch or several patches following close after. Face it: The customer is being played with.,

Renegade: The reason i chose car vs game is easy. Because of the money. For the standart 16 year old guy a game is pretty expensive, as is a car for a 30 year old guy. I can as well just take a flat screen tv, that pair of inliners or potentially even your new mobile phones with loads of functions.
The gaming industry was a niche market years ago, but is more and more moving towards the mainstream. With this, the amount of money involved grows (Ubisoft, 60% more gain this year, anyone?), and so the Industry more and more moves towards "we want easy money, lets arse the customer", just like every other major player.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

This probably leads to the real reason that home PC game sales have been declining in the last couple of years, drawing attention to the console games. I just don't believe that games are playtested well enough these days as to trap bugs before it is released. OR else all the people who purchase the games are considered the 'playtesters.' http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Ragnarok-X said:
At any rate, if you think its okay to buy games or stuff in general which is broken, do so.

The arguments I've read seem to have been to the effect of "games today are not much more bugged than in the past," not "we like buying buggy products." Nobody likes buying buggy products, but that is how it is, so we have to make do.

That also negates the point of "consoles are always the same"...

No it doesn't. Console games require an order of magnitude less testing time on graphical/system config issues, which means more time to test other things (or faster time-to-market).

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I can understand why you chose the example you did, but I just don't think it was a very good comparison. Perhaps a better comparison would be Game vs. Book. If a game is buggy and you can't really play it, it's similar to buying a book that's missing a few pages here or there. I think that works well as a good comparison. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Well, I can tell you right now it wont sell into that crossover crowd if thats the way the box art looks. It's completely stupid! No one's gonna buy that lizard in a monk robe game!

They shoulda put a hot terran chick with tits and a space ship on the front. Tits and space ships sell. Lizards in monk robes dont.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Dizzy wins the "tell it like it is prize." This week's prize is a spaceship. With tits.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Reminds me a bit of this comic .

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I think that's Rag-X's point though. If people stopped buying shoddy products, companies would have a financial incentive to improve quality. There just aren't enough people willing to pay for quality.

It's like the old saying: "Fast. Cheap. Good. Pick two." Enough people pick "fast & cheap" to keep the shovelware coming.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Tim - you are absolutely correct. It was his dedication to the fans by continually patching and adding things to SE4 that has partly kept me involved with the series since 2000 (and of course the inherent fun in modding and relationships with other fans over the years). It's funny how patches with mostly bug fixes and some new features make you want to play certain games again. Typically, anytime a new patch comes out for a game I will typically give it a whirl again, even for some that I shelved long ago.

I know that when confronted with the patch question on a chat as recently as this weekend, Aaron confirmed his intent to patch SE5 for a very long time (one part of the equation as you put it). However, if SF does not support Aaron in his wishes, then I don't doubt the SE series will die an untimely death.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I hope SEV is a big success, because I think Aaron deserves it with his dedication and superior game concept.

I'm eager for the game because SE games are all I play.

I'm looking forward to playing games with all you guys in the future because this is by far, the best online community I've ever been a part of.

Even if the game is only a a mediocre success and only draws in a relatively small number of new people, I have no doubt in my mind that Aaron will continue to provide us all with the same level of commitment he has shown us all over these many many years.

Bugs in games are unfortunate, but inevitable because of the climate that PC games have evolved into. Wish it wasn't so, but it is. I'll be lined up at my local PC game store on Sept 12 to pick up my copy regardless.

bugs or no, I feel that because of our enthusiasm and Aaron's dedication, SE isn't going away anytime soon.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Hey,
okay, i 100% percent agree with you. Your example is DEFINITLY way better. Thanks http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - September 12
 

There has never been any computer software that has been released without bugs. There has never been any computer hardware that has been released without bugs.

Period.

Here's some of Intel's latest known hardware errors and they seem to have no intention of fixing.
http://geek.com/news/geeknews/2006Ja...0123034350.htm
They are just an example of why I say "no hardwarew or software is bug free".

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - September 12
 

Ragnorak: Everybody else here is pointing out examples of how games in the past have been just as bugged as modern games, or how it isn't just games that are released with "bugs."

Could you please make references to the games that have these horrible game destroying bugs you are referring too?

The title monster complained
 

Bungie made a game that would reformat your hard drive. I forget what it was called, it was some version of myst I think. Anyway, that would not only ruin that game, but ruin all my other games installed.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

I once made a bugless 'Guess-my-number' program.

It even had two difficulty levels.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

So it releases... after my birthday. Swell.

Re: Official SE5 release date announced - Septembe
 

Any word yet on Preordering SEV? I don't really care about what serial number of disk I get, but I would like to run it soonest!