An Epic Generator...
 

Galactic Civilizations is a 4x space TBS game that came out this year. Its expansion is coming out soon and, to my surprise, it is going to include a feature I've wished strategy games would have for a long time. It's called the Epic Generator:

"The Epic Generator. One of the most popular community building features of Galactic Civilizations II was Stardock's release of epic stories of various games the developers played. [The expansion] will include its own epic generator that will actually build (in HTML) the story of each game the player plays to read later or share with others that gives the story of each game."

I think Dominions, being a slow and deliberately paced strategy game, and having such a unique fantasy setting, would make great advantage out of something like this. I don't know if its modable or not, but a feature like this would be so, so cool for the game. After a long PVP, the group could get together and read each others' stories. I'm sure I'm the only person who thinks this idea has merit, but I thought I'd bring it up anyway.

=$= Big J Money =$=

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Its not exactly moddable because the mods dont allow you to create output as far as I know.

It is however doable in a small way (Ive been considering something like it for awhile). One of the many game settings that a host can use includes one to create a debug file. Its basically a text log of everything the program thought about and decided on while it was processing the turns.

Personally I would consider it easiest to do on a linux server but I guess it could be done on Windows or Mac. A program in any programming language could read thru the turn log, gather the appropriate data, rewrite it into a storybook form and HTML it, then copy the html file to a web-directory for viewing by everyone. It would be a major project but worth doing.

You could use the --postexec switch to call your program right after each time that the host processes a turn.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

I don't think The Epic Generator will be more than a gimmick.
After a while the stories will get boring and repetative, because they will all be built from a single template (or a limited number of templates).
It is a nice gimmick though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

It could always be an ongoing project of someones also. Continually searching for info in the files and deciding how it should be rewritten.

But probably a handwritten AAR will always be better. I think some of them should go to a PoD site like CafePress and offer it as a journal.
http://www.cafepress.com/cp/info/sell?pid=2837642
Especially if they do it in a two page format where the story is on one side and the game actionson the other side. It would make for a great read and a great tutorial

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

It might be a gimmick, but it would be kinda neat. Whether it's worth spending development time on or not is another issue of course.

After the initial novelty has worn off I doubt you'd see much use of it, unless an unusual or unintentionally comedic masterpiece is thrown out by the program.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Well it would always be more interesting than just the scores.html that the game puts out. And it wouldnt be hard to have it generate automatically each turn then move it to the web directory.

Im convinced it would be woprthwhile but it would be low on my list. And like most of the projects I do it will probably end up getting done just far enough to prove the point then I will drop it for someone else to pick up and finish.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

The excellent after-action reports of the Warlords series could be stepped turn-by-turn and included heroes' histories. "Heroica emerged at Citiaone, took Citiatwo, and was slain by a dragon!" It's the best I've ever seen and the GE one sounds beter. I just hope a Dominions implementation wouldn't require you to "win" to get to it since I've never made it past turn 70.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Lol @ Wick re: turn #s

If nothing else, there is something very useful about this kind of thing, even if it eventually becomes predictable. It would allow people to read the events of other players in games they played in, the importance of which is the fact that you get to learn a little about why your enemies succeeded or failed. Being chronological in nature, it would also give you an idea of where the turning points in the game came about.

=$=

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

King of Dragon Pass was built around the idea of a saga that is being built. It's a little-known game, and quite interesting. I never played it much. Maybe I should give it another try now that my summer job is over.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Yes I loved KoDP. In discussion of storyline games it always gets brought up.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

I don't remember for sure, but it's probable that I heard of it from you. However, that'd have been years ago.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

I bought KoDP a number of years ago. Played it for a while but I never made sense of how to do well in the game. Some aspects of it were kind of silly like duck warriors. But an epic that makes sense and has rules a la Dominions would be really neat. You could read about your conquests after you win. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Actually I like this epic generator idea, however it is not that important to add it to a patch...maybe for Doms. 4? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif [I guess it would take too much time for the devs to add this feature, and there are many more important things to add first.]

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

I think the only way to maintain the coolness factor in the theoretical Epic Generator is to add the ability to define new templates and enhance existing ones.
If someone coded that Epic Generator I would definitely help by creating new templates to make stories more interesting.
Now all we need is someone to code it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Heh, King of Dragon Pass is great, I've had it for some five years now, never get tired of it. Endoperez, you should definitely give it another try. SurvivalistMerc, it's not really that hard if you keep your head screwed on straight and always try your best to "do the right thing". Nothing for it if luck isn't on your side, though.

However, as nice as the game and the way it records the clan saga may be, I must confess I've never actually read any of mine. I prefer living in the moment to dwelling on the past, as it were. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

oKiN!

Ahh.....HA! I bet you are the culprit for getting me into this game. Did you mention DomII on the Mount&Blade forums a while back? I've been trying to remember how in the world I heard about this game many months ago. Anyway, if it was you, thanks a bunch for advertising this game, word of mouth. I might never have found it otherwise. It sure is rewarding to be a member of the indie games community.

=$=

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Nope, wasn't me. I know because you demonstrated knowledge of the game on the forum before I did. This is the earliest mention I found by running a search on "Dominions".

What happened to you, though? I don't remember hearing a peep out of you for ages.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

There's an earlier mention from April last year, and probably back before that (dunno when the auto prune cut off is).

Thought I recognised BigJMoney from somewhere. Endoperez too.

Back to the topic at hand, there's been a few interesting posts regarding the Epic generator in GalCiv.
I get the feeling context is the key to having a sensible story. It would probably take some work to implement though - summoning an air queen with the last of your magic could be significant (i.e. a last ditch attempt to save your kingdom) or it could be irrelevant (if your spending all of your gems on air queens every turn). It would be hard to actually enable the epic generation script to differentiate between the two.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

The generator wouldn't have to be able to differentiate between the two to be useful, especially in multiplayer games. If you kept track of major forges (which if it's te same month after month could just be sage Elron started forging lots of xx as a one time statement). Major expenditures of gold or gems would be tracked. The idea is that after a game you can read about what actually happened and understand it from multiple perspectives.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

It would be worthwhile even if it couldnt automatically write an interesting story. If it digested the log and spat out the revelent parts in dry facts that would still go far toward allowing a person to edit it for abit more color.

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

You'd still need to figure out what was a relevant piece of information to include from the log though.

On a related note, something I could see a use for would be a "battle report" type of thing. Going down the narrative route should be easier (and would be kind of cool), but it would also grant a better insight into the AI's decision making process (at least if implemented well) no matter how it was done. Not only would it help newcomers understand how to script for battles, but I'm sure even veterans would be interested to know precisely why their water mage decided to spend all of his crystals on summoning elementals when the enemy began to rout http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

The game supports a debug log now (even Dom2). A -d switch when you run the game creates an output that can be redirected to a log. Each d adds a level of info so -ddd is much more and -dddddd is huge logs that have to be deleted between each hosting. Basically, yes, you get to see the game "think".

That log is what I would work off of. Probably not on anything higher than 3 to 5 d's because after that it gets insane to pull out the important info.

Gandalf Parker

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

I have looked at the debug log output, and the spell selection process is probably the most accessable and useful part of the log. Here is a short sample from a game with my Prophet selecting/casting Sermon of Courage (no other spells had any value in this case):

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>com Prophet cast spell (favspell Nothing) (mayusegems 1)
spellscore, Banishment score 0 (boost 101)
Eval: Banishment score 0 (fat 0)
spellscore, Blessing score 0 (boost 119)
Eval: Blessing score 0 (fat 0)
best Sermon of Courage this far, 37 16 (13 pnts)
best Sermon of Courage this far, 41 16 (15 pnts)
best Sermon of Courage this far, 37 17 (16 pnts)
best Sermon of Courage this far, 38 17 (18 pnts)
spellscore, Sermon of Courage score 19 (boost 83)
Eval: Sermon of Courage score 21 (fat 0)
best spell so far Sermon of Courage (score21)
spellscore, Smite Demon score 0 (boost 99)
Eval: Smite Demon score 0 (fat 0)
castspell: cnr42 spl604 (Sermon of Courage) vis0 x38 y17 spldmg1
vis 0 xvis 0
blastsqr: unr2053 x38 y17 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2061 hv1
affectvic vic2076 hv1
blastsqr: unr2053 x37 y16 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2159 hv0
blastsqr: unr2053 x39 y17 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
blastsqr: unr2053 x38 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
blastsqr: unr2053 x37 y15 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
blastsqr: unr2053 x37 y17 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2156 hv0
blastsqr: unr2053 x37 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2056 hv0
blastsqr: unr2053 x38 y16 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2072 hv0
blastsqr: unr2053 x39 y18 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
blastsqr: unr2053 x38 y19 aoe1 dmg1 eff17 spc12599296 as10218 al9
affectvic vic2074 hv0
</pre><hr />

You can the pass of spell selection with different "boost" values for different spells. There are multiple tries of each spell to create a best "score", which selects which spell is cast. Then the "castspell:" line shows the selected spell cast and the following lines each square hit and the "affec"ted "vic"tim.

It's very gratifying to see the actual number of repels in combat as well, much more common than I would have intuited.

Sill

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Hehe. Wow, it's jarring to see how my personality changes from one forum to the next. I don't think I'd ever call anyone a devious bastard here on these forums ;-). Erm, I've been around, but I tend to not play M&amp;B too much while it's in beta, other than to look for bugs and make other constructive comments about the game. After I've given my opinions, I disappear for a while until the next version. I'll play it hard for about a week and then stop. I don't want to grow tired of the game before it releases. As for the forums, I've found that after a certain point, old things tend to ge rehashed, and I don't really have the time to go over them again. When the next version is out, I'll be around again for a little while. Maybe I'll even pop in before then for a little bit. It's always fun throwing ideas back and forth. That post you referenced, by the way; it seems fairly recent to me. I assumed you'd been around here a bit longer than that. My quest for the Dominions missionary who gave me life must continue, I suppose.

One other thing that could be useful about an Epic Generator is the method it uses to pick and choose what gets narrated. For example, it might be best if it doesn't try to narrate everything it has the ability to. Maybe some random element chooses pieces out of the history to become the highlights. This randomness might be good for a player, because it gives him a spin on his own story that maybe he didn't see himself. It could be a catalyst for inspiration. For example, if I think the highlight of the game was when I created this army of mages who can cast spell X, but the game instead narrates the fact that I won several battles with my SC, then it may cause me to write differently than I had anticipated. Either way, it gives the player a different perspective. Just a thought.

=$=

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

You do that. You do that right now. You're missing out on all kinds of great mods, the #mount&amp;blade IRC channel and most of all The Great TaleWorlds Dominions II Showdown 2, so you haul *** and get back there pronto, hear?

Well. I'd been around the TaleWorlds forum for several months at that time and I'd had Dominions 2 for a while, but I'd never posted about it on the forum before that. And if by "here" you mean the Dominions forum, I only just joined, as you can see. Never got around to it before.

Guess so. Good luck with that, fella. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: An Epic Generator...
 

Once the game gets settled in abit we can make specific requests to Johan. Information that is more game info than "debug" info that we might get him to put out into the debug log so that it can be reworked by us. Its on my wishlist but not something I felt was appropriate during beta-testing