SEV Questions?
 

1) Will there be scenario editor?
1a) If there is, will we have to run turns or just be able to edit an existing file?
2) Will there be a map editor?
3) Will there be an image editor? (within the game, not 3rd party)

I know that the game will be mod-able as far as images and AI, etc. BUT will any of the tools for this be included with the game OR placed in an "EXTRAS" folder like SEIV?

While modding is great it would be nice to be able to set up scenarios to create different situations. I've been working on some scenarios for SEIV, but you actually have to run the turns off running all the races to "set up" your desired situation. Once you down the road about 100 turns and find that you need to change something, you have to redo all those turns again. If scenarios are saved differently from games you would be able to do this as the biggest argument I hear coming from being able to edit games is the cheating aspect. <font color="red">(Please don't go off on this subject as I'm more interested in what's ahead in SEV) </font>

Re: SEV Questions?
 

All according to publicly available information:

1) Unknown
2) Unknown, but even if there isn't one at release, it's a possibility that Aaron will release one at a later date.
3) I don't believe so

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Why would Aaron make an image editor when there are so many dedicated and far superior image editors out there already?

SE5 is a Strategy/Wargame, not the next Photoshop/GIMP/3DStudio/etc...

Re: SEV Questions?
 

SJ, it's not about the editing. I agree with you about 3rd party graphics. I'm talking about a program the will let you assign pics to the proper item. [Ex. The planet bmp has all the planets on on large bmp file and unless you know all the x,y locations (which some people probably do) you can get some strange results by calling in the wrong x,y number.] If you've ever tried a game like War Engine then you know what I'm talking about. It would be like taking all the ships of one race and sticking them in one bmp file with the top left x,y coor. being called out in the id file for use as a specific set of pixels for that image. If you were off in your x,y coor. and lets say that you gave the center of a pic as the x,y you would end up with the bottom right part of that pic and the other three adjacent pics as your image.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

SE4 has all of the planet minis in one file, and you don't need to know the coordinates... just count how many images down the list the one you want is.

The imagemod packs even have an index down the side to make counting easier http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I agree. BUT, if you were going to do a planet bmp from scratch. Wouldn't you want a program that could insert each pic where it belongs in the bmp? Or else you would have to cut and paste each planet in the proper location. It would be much easier to just have a program that does that for you. You tell it what picture slot you want it in and it puts it in the right location within the bmp.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Just line it up with the grid paper background, no prob.

Or, email the picture to however is doing the imagemod for SE5, and let them line it up http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Or, have a handy program which does it for you.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I have to agree with SJ. It is no difficulty at all pasting the minis into the file in the gridlines. Personally, I'd rather have Aaron spend more time working on the game than on such a program. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Which is not to say that somebody else can't just make one if they wanted to.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Exactly!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

2 Questions (sorry if covered elsewhere)

1. Weapon arcs (as seen in Starfury) have been removed?

2. Escort, Frigate and Battlecruiser have been removed? What are the hull sizes for the remaining hulls? Please, please, please tell me the larger ships are much larger than in SEIV...

Re: SEV Questions?
 

No weapon arcs.

Frigates have not been removed; they are the starting warship hull. You can see a complete listing of hulls here:

http://www.spaceempires.net/home/article239.html

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Modding ship sizes should be quite easy and as far as I read you can use standard ship pictures and vary their size for new ship classes.
My concern is the ship design: if it works like in starfury, which is what the screenshots indicate, then it could be very time consuming to create the many designs you need in a typical space empires game. And I am not convinced that the directional damage is worth this effort, especially if you cannot control the exact ship movements in strategic combat.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

You can set formations though, can't you? Thus if you put your command ship at the back you could be vulnerable to flanking attacks, so he might want some rear armor...

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Thanks. Well I guess I really never used the Escort size anyway, even Frigate could disappear, I wouldn't miss it...

But does anyone have info about the hull sizes? I'm REALLY hoping there is more of a spread between sizes...

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Scale is overrated.
It really dosen't matter if you have a 10Mt ship or a 100kt ship, given that everything else is proportional.

In GGmod that I'm working on for SE5, there are fighters of 20-30kt, scout ships of 60kt, all the way up to dreadnoughts of 300ish kt.
All of which will be useful, even in the end game.

- Ask not what stock can do for you... ask what you can do to mod stock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Well that would be a nice change, if the smaller ships still have a role to play in the end game. What is different in SEv that makes smaller ships more useful?

But when I see a Dreadnaught, I want to think, "my GOD, look at the size of that thing!", not, "oh look, a Battleship with 2 extra guns, ho hum."

Remember in The Empires Strikes Back, when you're looking at 2 Star Destroyers close to each other, then a shadow drifts over them, and you realize the shadow is MOVING!!?? Hello Super Star Destroyer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif Maybe not That big a scale difference, but more than just 20% bigger...

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Nothing in SE5 makes them more useful.

It is the mod.
The general idea is that maintenance costs are fairly flat rate, but build costs go up proportional to the square of the ship size.

You can build 30 frigates in the time it takes to build one dread, but those frigates have most of their space devoted to a single 60mm Laser...
A battleship big enough to carry a 100mm gun and still be well armored is scary. Mmm. Those Yamato class Battleships in the FTP game with Sivran were sweet and scary. Ripped destroyers in half with its main gun (100mm Laser), and chewed up the remains with its secondary batteries of 80mm DUC.

(Weapon size/damage is proportional to the square of the bore diameter)

Re: SEV Questions?
 

SJ, why are you making 20kT fighters in SE5? I thought the units were adjustable so you could have 20 *ton* fighters and also ships in the kiloton range! Even if not that, why not just set the units to tons and have the fighters 20 tons and the scouts 10,000 tons? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SEV Questions?
 

the sample data files posted on MMs web site seem to suggest that there are weapon arcs.

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I agree with Puke, this stuff looks like firing arcs:

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre> Firing Point Arcs
315 0 45
\|/
270 -+- 90
/|\
225 180 135 </pre><hr />
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Firing Point 1 X := 112.319191
Firing Point 1 Y := 413.506592
Firing Point 1 Z := 27.873138
Firing Point 1 Arc Start := 315
Firing Point 1 Arc End := 45
</pre><hr />

Re: SEV Questions?
 

In another thread it was mentioned that Fire Arcs only affect graphics, not actual gameplay, which seems really odd to me. Why put all the effort in to only half-implement a feature? Maybe we'll see it incorporated into SE5: Gold, if not sooner.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

For animations yes, but there are not firing arcs as there was in Star Fury.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Trust us, there are no firing arcs in SE5.

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That's a fair statement.

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Instead of making 20kt fighters, why not make a 'fighter mount' to put whatever you need on a fighter. I've played with fighter mounts and found that they increase the usefulness of a fighter, but still present you with the fact that they are supplemental firpower and not a fully functional ship. This way you can limit what weapons and system you can put on them by mount specifications.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I would LOVE to find out that an all fighter strategy is valid in SEV, instead of the limited usefulness in SEIV. You could use them in 4, but only in the very early game, then point defense V chewed threw them like "a hot knife through butta'"

Re: SEV Questions?
 

sooo... looking at the fireing arc thing, the six firing points dont correspond with any of the slots on the other data file.

and if they are just cosmetic, i would have to assume that they are points on the parimater of the ship used for drawing beam effects and such, and that any weapon can fire out of any point, depending on which can see the enemy that needs to be seen.

it also suggests that if a modder forgets to cover an area with an arc, or double covers an area, there may be some problems.

i wonder if you place multiple fireing points covering a single arc, that if you could get a single weapon looking like multiple weapons. that would have some interesting graphical possibilities.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

If you look at the example file, it does have multiple firing arcs that cover the front and a couple other sides, so double coverage isn't a problem.

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Now that the sample data files has settled my modding concerns..
Im hoping that some AI abuses are plugged. Such as.. do not sell me your homeworld. I can take out the first 4 races I meet by offering every resource, every tech, every starmap, etc in exchange for "just one world" and they give it to me. They never have the ability to recover from that.

Also Im hoping to see plugged that I could offer 100,000 of each resource 5 times in the same turn (no matter how much I acutaly had). As far as I can tell it never ticked anyone off that I didnt have it (altho I havent verified if the game didnt possibly give it to them anyway even though I didnt have it)

Re: SEV Questions?
 

hmm. maybe my assessment was incorrect, then.

as to GPs comment, all games have some degree of exploitable feature. it reminds me of morrowind, and how lots of people complained how easy the game was if you exploited it. otherpeople thought it was fun and challenging. the difference? the people who had fun chose not to exploit the game.

you cant please everybody. some people cant resist an exploit. try to please them, and you invariably end up compramising some other feature or taking away from some other aspect of the game.

but thats a religious debate that will probably never be settled.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

You can plug that in SE4 AI already... just modify their politics settings to increase the ante for trades; a lot of custom AIs (esp. TDM ones) do this already.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

On firing arcs: One of the big sales pitches for the RTS game Supreme Commander is the way weapons work. Some units may have powerful shots, but are slow to turn, and so a fast moving unit will make a dangerous foe. Not because of a random dice roll modifier, but because the turret doesn't turn fast enough to keep the rabbit in it's crosshairs.

I hope that firing arcs have the same sort of effect in overall vessel performance, design, and use in combat. It does present a new componant size consideration: Ships will need comparatively more weapons, and AI will also have to consider turning ships to bring weapons to bear.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

The simple fact that fighters don't exist in 'stacks' but as discreet objects makes things very different. Each fighter has to be individually targetted and hit. Damage doesn't 'bleed' through to the next fighter. So overkill is wasted instead of carried over to the next. Beyond that it's simply a matter of balancing the armor and shield strength vs. the PD weapons.

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Speaking of hit, I hope the collision problems from Starfury have been resolved..

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Actually I play with TDM and half a dozen other mods already. It doesnt seem to help if Ive just met them (no points against me) and I offer them everything I have (which doesnt matter since they effectively drop out of the game at that point).

Besides, I dont want them to refuse to trade. I just wish they would refuse to trade their homeworld. Its almost impossible to get colonizing technology, but easy to get their homeworld.

Gandalf Parker

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Ok so it wasn't TDM per se, but some other high powered custom AIs in shipsets. Some of them do have it at up to 500% for enemies though, so you have to trade a lot more than otherwise.

Don't ask for their HW then, and there is no issue...

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I think Kwok mentioned (in regards to his exclusive screenshots) that ships will move in 3d in combat to avoid collisions.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Heehee. Good answer. The perfect response to my hope that its fixed in SEV. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

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So how about this: Could someone script a supply ship to continously resupply fighters to a carrier group in SEV?

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I haven't tried it as yet but as far as I understand the script files - yes, it will be possible to do this IMHO.

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That begs the Question how well does the AI handle the direct firing arcs and damage? Supposedly the damage is arc specific, so that one side of the ships defenses will take damage before other sides. Will the AI be smart enough to turn that damaged side away from the enemy?

Re: SEV Questions?
 

on damage arcs, I'm imagining there finally being a use for the "Hold Formation" option. Ships in a wall formation with all their armor on the front, possibly with fighter screens or sub-formations set up to flank.

Battles will probalby look more like brigade level infantry combat in the Napoleonic Wars.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

I have one question about SE V. Will it include the full version of SE III as a bonus?

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Let the Battle for planet Waterloo IV in the Waterloo system begin!!!

I don't beleive that firing and damage arc will create a better game with AI control. Those battles should be best left for human players that want to have that factor in their games. The actual construction of a ship will dictate the firing arcs. In Star Trek, the Federation ships do not fire to the rear of the ship well. That's because of the construction. The Klingon ships, because of the wing design can fire pretty much 360° on the top half of their ships. I just beleive that it would hinder the AI more then creat a 'better' game.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

oh ye of little faith. The best battles in SE4 are huge fleet battles with carefully designed strategies and tactics, left to auto-resolve.

Good AI programmers can create devestating combinations of ship design and fleet strategy. Ever play Carrier Battles Mod against the AI?

And SE5 is only going to be better. People will write AI that use optimal ship design and formations, and they will be better than anything we have seen yet.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Thank you for your post Puke, but you also state the obvious,

<font color="red">"and they will be better than anything we have seen yet."
</font>

When I see it, I will believe. The AI's right NOW are good, BUT they lack ability to improvise when needed.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

Although to be fair, you should give it some time after release for the AI to be optimized.

Re: SEV Questions?
 

And for the mods to fill in some of the awesome potential gamespace.

SE4 is a lush, well developed forest of mods, while SE5 will be starting out in a wide but currently barren field of possibilities.