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-   -   Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview) (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=29889)

Urendi Maleldil August 20th, 2006 03:01 PM

Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
The Ages of Space Empires is my latest mod project. It's based on a technology structure similar to the one used in the RTS game Rise of Nations. It's designed to make SE4 more fun and give it more of an epic multigenerational feel.

The most important (and expensive) tech levels are the 8 Ages. Each Age represents a significant leap forward in technology that changes the face of space combat, yielding new battle strategies and obsoleting old ones as the game progresses. The Ages only become available after a race has achieved predetermined levels of technology in the General Science categories.

The Ages are:
0 - The Space Age (starting Age)
1 - The Nuclear Age
2 - The A.I. Age
3 - The Antigravity Age
4 - The Antimatter Age
5 - The Warp Age
6 - The Hyperspace Age
7 - Ascension

I've completed the conceptual phase. Right now I'm planning out the individual components, facilities, hulls, and all that. Eventually I'll add AI races, but I want to get the core of the mod done first.

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Age details:
Space Age
strategy: Boarding, Ramming, Blockades and Troops
description: Space travel has been achieved. Space propulsion technology has developed far enough to create ships capable of leaving and re-entering a planetary atmosphere. The discovery of Warp Points allows easy access to the resources of other star systems. The possibility of developing off-world colonies exists, but it's much more efficient to leave manufacturing, construction and resource processing facilities on the homeworld. Most off-world bases are simply outposts used to resupply spacecraft, observe stellar phenomena, support remote resource extractors, and scout for new resources. Ship-to-ship combat in space is limited, since the effective range of most weapons is relatively short, and most space vessels lack the speed and endurance to travel far from established supply lines. It's more common to blockade an enemy homeworld and invade with large numbers of ground forces, or eliminate enemy outposts one by one, destroying an enemy's economy.

Nuclear Age
strategy: Dreadnoughts and Missiles
description: Safe and cheap Nuclear energy leads to a rebirth of space exploration. Huge Nuclear reactors power some of the largest starships ever built. Nuclear missiles dominate space warfare, but smaller direct-fire weapons still play a small role in space battles. Large dreadnoughts are designed with heavy armor to withstand a Nuclear attack.

A.I. Age
strategy: Light Cruisers, Destroyers and Torpedos
description: While your race hasn't achieved computer sentience, artificial intelligence technology has developed to a point where machines can take over most menial and repetitive tasks, leaving your race free to focus on creativity, leadership, and science. Smaller more sophisticated ships can easily outmatch Nuclear Age dreadnoughts. While Nuclear weapons are still useful in space warfare, their power has been tempered by the emergence of energy shield technology and AI controlled point defense grids. This age also sees the advent of Plasma weapons to counter shields and guided torpedos to counter large armored ships. Nuclear weapons become small enough to use on fighters, which are typically launched from colonies and converted cargo ships, rather than dedicated carriers.

Antigravity Age
strategy: Carriers and Beam Weapons
description: The development of practical Anti-gravity technology creates a revolution in space travel and industry. The development of the inertial dampener and artificial gravity generators means that manned space craft can travel faster and operate for much longer durations than ever before. Gravitational technology leads to the development of effective medium range particle beam weapons. Carriers also come into their own with the introduction of gravitational arrestor catapults for launching and retrieving fighters in combat.

Antimatter Age
strategy: Superdreadnoughts, Base Ships, Missiles and Planet/Star Destroyers
description: Antimatter power becomes safe and effective. While the Antigravity Age's massive particle beam weapons pushed the envelope of Nuclear power, the development of the Antimater reactor has made such weapons practical even for small and medium size ships. Once again missiles become effective for use against large vessels and hardened targets with the introduction of Antimatter warheads and point defense evasion technology. Both shields and armor evolve to counter the vast destructive capability of Antimatter, but they require the use of larger ships, the largest of which surpass even the ancient Nuclear age dreadnoughts. Antimatter weapons also make destruction on a planetary, and even stellar scale possible.

Warp Age
strategy: Faster Ships, Missiles and Stealth
description: The technology to Warp and shape the space-time continuum has developed. This leads to the development of incredibly fast Warp drive systems, as well as the technology to Warp space around objects, making them difficult to hit with direct fire weapons, giving missiles an advantage. The development of smaller, more powerful Antimatter weapons that are able to warp past armor and shields has turned space warfare into a game of deception and strategy, with each side trying to decimate the other with a first strike, and both large and small ships emphasizing offense more than defense. Antimatter weapons become small enough to use on fighters, making carriers deadly once again. The invention of warp point generators allows ships to slip into a system behind enemy defenses.

Hyperspace Age
strategy: Individual Cloaked Ships, Beam Weapons
description: Warp technology takes a great leap forward, letting ships actually punch through the space-time continuum into another dimension called Hyperspace. Ships are able to travel through Hyperspace, making travel across the galaxy even faster than before. The ability to tap into Hyperspace for energy allows the construction of space vessels that have practically infinite range. Warp point generators become compact enough to use on small ships. Powerful weapons can disintegrate matter on a Hyperspacial level. Some smaller vessels are able to stay "submerged" in Hyperspace permenantly, making them invisible to nearly all sensors. Eventually Hyperspace weapons become so potent and so compact that any single space vessel can take on whole fleets of ships using earlier age technology.

Ascension
strategy: Star Killers, as close to MAD as you can get in SE4
description: Technology that allows beings to shed their material bodies and exist as pure energy becomes available to all. However they still need resources, particularly radioactives, to thrive. Space warfare becomes a tool used by Ascended races in their pride and jealousy against one another. The machine decendants of those computer systems that emerged in the A.I. Age have developed full sentience and taken their former masters' place in dominating the material world. Ascended individuals are able to posess a material spacecraft and fight without the use of technological weapons, making the ship largely immune to nearly all material weapons and able to regenerate quickly. The only way to kill a ship embued with the spirit of an Ascended being is to cause a nearby star to go nova and catching it in the blast wave. Stealth technology of any kind is useless against an Ascended race.

-------------------------------------------------------

colonial development
The default population growth rate will be set very low, similar to the Proportions Mod, but each Age will introduce a different Space Port facility that increases system pop growth rate to stock levels and beyond. This way developed systems will grow quicker and have greater production capacity than isolated outposts.

electronics
Electronic systems like Combat Sensors and ECM will be much smaller than stock SE4 (similar to the Pointer Mod). This way ships using more electronics can be smaller, but will also be more expensive and take longer to repair.

ship sizes
Hull costs will increase exponentially, similar to the Economies of Scale mod, but less drastic. Larger hulls will also have greater defense penalties, making them more vulnerable to direct-fire weapons. More details here.

starting tech levels
low, medium, and high tech starts will work like this:
Low Tech - Space Age
Medium Tech - Antigravity Age
High Tech - Hyperspace Age

troops
Troops will be available right from the start. In fact, the Space Age will feature very few planetary weapons to encourage the use of troops and planetary invasions. Instead of representing vehicles like in Stock SE4, each troop unit represents and Army and require varius command and support components, depending on its size (similar to the Pointer Mod or the Units Mod). Troops will also become more important in the A.I. Age as planetary shields develop to protect planets from being glassed by Nuclear weapons.

stealth
early Warp Age stealth technology will simply be glorified ECM combined with low-level EM cloaking ability. Later Hyperspace Age stealth will be similar to an idea for "Subspace" that someone mentioned on the forum in connection to the Carrier Battles Mod (can't find the link).

------------------------------------------

That's what I have right now. I also have a list of components that will go with each Age. Assembling the actual mod data files is slow-going. I'm using a combinaton of text editing and DavidG's Modder. If you have any ideas, comments or suggestions, that could improve the concept of the mod, or make development go faster, let me hear 'em.

Ragnarok-X August 20th, 2006 03:50 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
I dont really have suggestions but i find it amazing, the mod seems pretty interesting. Very interesting.

NullAshton August 20th, 2006 03:51 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Ascension is SWEET. It would be so awesome to play a high tech game of this, with those ascended ships. And it seems like it would be fun for a heavy RP type game.

Though, how are you going to get high tech users to start in the hyperspace age, and not at ascension?

Fyron August 20th, 2006 03:55 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
You can't; high tech start means 100% of techs you can get.

scJazz August 20th, 2006 04:47 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
This isn't really the type of mod that would be played from high tech. It defeats the whole point of the mod so I think it wouldn't be such a concern.

Dejavuproned August 20th, 2006 05:12 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
wow, just wow. Definately will be a must play when you release it. Great work!

Will August 20th, 2006 07:02 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
You could have a mod-launcher-type utility with the mod, to select the starting Age for all races by modifying some data files to give the correct starting tech for that particular age.

scJazz August 20th, 2006 07:36 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Too bad there is no way to get announcements like Age of Empires... Cue Cappa Commonwealth has reached Nuclear Age!

Captain Kwok August 21st, 2006 12:16 AM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
You can do it sort of if you have a prerequisite tech area for each age...

EaX August 21st, 2006 12:34 AM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Very interesting mod.... i'll be waiting its realease.

Urendi Maleldil August 21st, 2006 01:54 AM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
I forgot there was no way to define what techs you get for a High Tech start. Oh well, it's not vital to the mod, but it woulda been fun.

narf poit chez BOOM August 21st, 2006 05:29 AM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
That would be a very...interesting game. Rather like the chinese curse.

scJazz August 21st, 2006 09:34 AM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
One suggestion I have is to make the Age Technologies dependent on researching other techs. Similar to how it is done in M$ Age of Empires. So in order to advance to AI age you have to have X lvl nukes, Y ship construction, Z research or some such. Otherwise there is to great a temptation to just blast through the Age researches. In Age of Empires it was generally felt that a player who fully developed each age was able to hold on (barely) against one who raced 2 ages above.

Urendi Maleldil August 21st, 2006 01:17 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Yep. that's exactly how Age research will work

Ed Kolis August 21st, 2006 03:40 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Ages, eh? Reminds me of Anacreon... too bad SE4/5 won't let planets have individual tech levels no greater than the overall level of your empire... that would be sweet - only the most developed worlds could build your fanciest ships... however, MOO3 did something not quite the same but similar which might be replicable SE5 (maybe even SE4 in some scaled down fashion) - each hull size required an additional type of spaceyard be present on the planet, so for instance a Cruiser might require 5 types of yards, while a Battleship might require 7. I imagine something like this could be done in SE by means of spaceyard expansions with quadratically growing growing build rates and exponentially growing costs, tweaked with the right factors (e.g. rate 1K, 4K, 9K, 16K; cost 1K, 5K, 25K, 125K)

Kana August 21st, 2006 04:31 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Quote:

Ed Kolis said:
Ages, eh? Reminds me of Anacreon... too bad SE4/5 won't let planets have individual tech levels no greater than the overall level of your empire... that would be sweet - only the most developed worlds could build your fanciest ships... however, MOO3 did something not quite the same but similar which might be replicable SE5 (maybe even SE4 in some scaled down fashion) - each hull size required an additional type of spaceyard be present on the planet, so for instance a Cruiser might require 5 types of yards, while a Battleship might require 7. I imagine something like this could be done in SE by means of spaceyard expansions with quadratically growing growing build rates and exponentially growing costs, tweaked with the right factors (e.g. rate 1K, 4K, 9K, 16K; cost 1K, 5K, 25K, 125K)

This would be quite cool if we can do this...certainly make particular Spaceyards more important than others...

gregebowman August 21st, 2006 07:11 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Sounds very interesting. I just hope you don't really find a way to make it a RTS game. I hate those. I'm not a teenager who can grasp the situation while it's happening and commence the correct commands at a moment's notice. I'm old school, and like playing by turns. But I'd like to see your mod in action once you complete it.

Renegade 13 August 22nd, 2006 04:30 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
This sounds like an awesome mod, I will definitely check it out when it is released http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Suicide Junkie August 23rd, 2006 06:27 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
Quote:

Ed Kolis said:
Ages, eh? Reminds me of Anacreon... too bad SE4/5 won't let planets have individual tech levels no greater than the overall level of your empire... that would be sweet - only the most developed worlds could build your fanciest ships... however, MOO3 did something not quite the same but similar which might be replicable SE5 (maybe even SE4 in some scaled down fashion) - each hull size required an additional type of spaceyard be present on the planet, so for instance a Cruiser might require 5 types of yards, while a Battleship might require 7. I imagine something like this could be done in SE by means of spaceyard expansions with quadratically growing growing build rates and exponentially growing costs, tweaked with the right factors (e.g. rate 1K, 4K, 9K, 16K; cost 1K, 5K, 25K, 125K)

Easy.
Age 1 yard:
- Build rate of 2000/1/1
Age 2 yard:
- Build rate of 2000/1/2000
Age 3 yard:
- Build rate of 2000/2000/2000

If you want to get fancier and not require backwards compatibility with old age tech, you can have 7 yard levels.

Urendi Maleldil August 24th, 2006 03:35 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
That might be too confusing for players (not to mention the AI.) I've been giving some thought to what kind of construction scheme Ages should have. I think it will be much like Stock SE4, except orbital space yards will have greater construction capacity than planetary ones.

(doesn't make sense to build a space dreadnought on land)

vanbeke August 25th, 2006 02:20 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
That makes sense to me. But is it possible for base yards to have a component that can't be built on ships? It seems that the non-mobile yards should be the hastest.

Urendi Maleldil August 25th, 2006 02:29 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
You could change to vehicle type of the Space Station component to "Base" instead of "Ship/Base."

Or you culd simply make it too big to fit on a ship hull.

Suicide Junkie August 25th, 2006 06:49 PM

Re: The Ages of Space Empires
 
It won't be too confusing:
High tech ships need high tech spaceyard or they don't build.

Urendi Maleldil September 12th, 2006 10:35 PM

Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
Download Now

This is the first preview release of the Ages of Space Empires mod. I'm releasing the Space Age Preview to show off and test Space Age gameplay.

No AI has been written yet.

Weapons start off relatively weak. Ships with gun batteries perform better in fleets. Ramming should become a significant tactic once you research Armor, and boarding should be come another significant tactic once you research Troops.

I need your opinions on:
- Weapon balance (gun batteries and missiles should be balanced on the low end, while boarding and ramming should be much more effective)
- Resource Production (should be rather low, with remote mining being more effective than ground facilities)
- Colonial Expansion (should be slow and difficult to establish large off-world colonies)
- Ship Construction Rates (Orbital Space Yards should be more effective than ground-based ones)
- Troop Invasions (It should be more effective to invade homeworlds and large colonies than to glass them with bombs)

Urendi Maleldil September 13th, 2006 09:39 AM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
I'll probably be releasing one preview for each age before the final release of version 1.

Atrocities September 14th, 2006 04:47 AM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
Quote:

- Ship Construction Rates (Orbital Space Yards should be more effective than ground-based ones)

I agree with this 100% and adopted this philosphy in STM some time ago however I discovered that HW's will always be more effiencent with their bonuses than non homeworlds.

As to making troops more important than glassing a planet I would love to know how to you intend to make the AI handle this.

Fyron September 14th, 2006 06:21 AM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
There are a number of AIs that are quite capable of conquering your planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Urendi Maleldil September 14th, 2006 09:37 AM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
I'll simply have them build more troops and troop transports I suppose. That will increase the chance that an invasion fleet will have troops on hand to capture a planet.

They could glass a planet using bombs, but they will need a heck of a lot of bombs to make a scratch on a major homeworld

Atrocities September 14th, 2006 11:41 AM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
Quote:

Imperator Fyron said:
There are a number of AIs that are quite capable of conquering your planets. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

This is true I am sure but what is the best method for doing so?

Urendi Maleldil September 22nd, 2006 08:13 PM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
I just discovered that the Ages mod has an interesting technology bleed-over effect.

Since each Age tech level is required for many components, a player who hasn't reached a particular Age yet, fighting against someone who has, can capture a ship, analyze it, and automatically jump to that Age too.

I'm actually considering removing self destruct devices or making them diffcult to use to keep tech bleed-over part of the game.

What do you guys think?

narf poit chez BOOM September 22nd, 2006 08:42 PM

Re: Ages of Space Empires (Space Age Preview)
 
I dunno, my first instinct was to go the opposite way - Make tech nearly impossible to capture.

After all, just because you can build a coal power station, doesn't mean you'd have a clue what to do if someone dropped a nuclear one on your lap.


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