Religious Uprising Feature: moddable?
 

I just thought of a crazy idea that actually makes a lot of sense. What about the ability to "Dominion flip" provinces? Basically, when the people of a province worship your god strongly enough, they rebel against the army in control there. If they win, the province becomes yours. Two situations would arise from this:

1) Neutral territories might become attacked repeatedly and whittled down until they become yours.

2) Enemy territories with no/low PD might actually become yours.

The chance of an uprising would be dependent on the level of dominion there, of course [modified; see posts below]. The attacking force would be pretty small, but maybe it would get larger each time [also updated below]. It would be a force made up of locally recruitable troops.

I'm not saying dominion doesn't do enough in this game, but this idea came to me while writing an AAR and it just seems to make a lot of sense, role playing wise. If you can get the people of a province to worship you enough, they join your team.

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Re: Would this be moddable?
 

Are you sure it didn't come up while playing Civ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Would this be moddable?
 

It certainly does sound familiar. Might work, but the required dominion for a rebellion would have to be pretty high to keep it balanced.

Re: Would this be moddable?
 

The force and the probability of the attack can be proportionnal to the actual dominions in the province. The order/turmoil balance can also have an effet.
For example:
chance of attack: dominion% +3% by rank of turmoil/-3% by rank of order

Attacker force equivalent to 20 gold * dominions

With that sort of mechanism, the majority of the attack can be easely beaten by some cheap defense (like 10).

The unrest and population can also play a role in this.

Religious Uprising Feature
 

Not necessarily. If the attacks never happen unless its a high Dominion, then you'd rarely see this take useful effect in the game. Rather, I think it would be balanced more by the scale of the uprising than its frequency. If there is a 5% chance of an uprising in a province with only 1 enemy candle, it doesn't necessarily mean that its unbalanced, because if that province has at least 5 PD, it will be fine.

Good points, Tyrian. I was thinking the scale would be something like this: for every 1 candle of enemy dominion, the rebelling force should be beaten off by an average PD of 5. I also think the uprising chance should be slightly effected by dominion strength, though. Maybe 1% per candle. Also, unrest increases this percentage according to this scale:

1 - 10: 10%%* increase
11 - 20: 20%% increase
21 - 30: 30%% increase
31 - 40: 40%% increase
...etc
* - %% means an increase of the increase; not a direct increase.

Example:
A turmoil-3 province with 10 enemy dominion* and 100 unrest would have a 38% chance of an uprising per turn. [10% (Dominion) +9% (Scales) x 200% (Unrest) = 38%]

Example:
An order-3 province with 10 enemy dominion* and zero unrest would have a 0% chance of an uprising per turn. In fact, order-3 with zero unrest cannot even have an uprising unless the enemy dominion level has reached 10 or higher. [10% (Dominion) -9% (Scales) x 100% (Unrest) = 1%]

Example:
An order-0 province with 10 unrest and 10 enemy dominion* would have a 11% chance of an uprising per turn. [10% (Dominion) +0% (Scales) x 110% (Unrest) = 11%]

* -- This attack would require an average of 35 PD to fight off (this takes into account that PD levels after 20+ give double the troops)

Keep in mind that these examples use enemy Dominion levels of 10, which is someone being absolutely steamrolled by enemy Dominion.

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Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

With regards to creating an attack force:
If that's too good it could also be done so that provinces in enemy dominion got unrest per turn. Maybe even scripted so that, say if unrest = 300 -(10xdominion) + 1 per point of pd + 1 per unit stationed there, the province flips automatically. Without the province flipping trigger, it basically puts an income penalty on people that expand a lot beyond their dominion, and doesn't even add much micromanagement, because of the new auto-tax system. With the province flipping part, unrest causing spells, and spies become (more) powerfull weapons for people with really strong dominion. The above unrest formula is actually pretty lenient, you could make it alot worse (you need 200 unrest, even with dominion -10, for the province to flip) Good vs Mictlan though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif
There's probably something glaringly wrong with that forumula, but I can't see it. The actual numbers would need tweaking of course, but I think it might work in concept.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

That's a neat idea, too. I especially like the fact that both ideas are very similar in outcome. In both cases, spreading dominion and increasing unrest together make a powerful combination. :-) This is a new game mechanic... spies are good for not only decreasing resources, but possibly even stealing a territory.

I can only think of one flaw that needs to be compensated for in your idea: military presence. How would the game handle flipping a province if an enemy army is located there? The army would simply retake the province on the same turn. Even just leaving one weak commader there would be good enough to keep the province from flipping.

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Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

Ideas sound kind of interesting, but some of them would have huge impact on the game. Like having to go over provinces every turn to ensure "adequate PD/dominion ratio". The only solution I can see here is to make sure defending against province flipping is impractical. To make it realistic, maybe there should be uprising army proportional to the population while the chances of rebellion are proportional to turmoil and dominion strength. If the rebels army has 1000+ regular units (perhaps one of those that can be recruited?) in it, nothing short of having major army or SC in the province would help, so it wouldn't cause any noticeable extra management.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

But then the person who gets the new territory has a huge army, and would either a) go on a rampage and take tons of provinces, which would be kinda cool, but overpowering, or b) have a bunch of crappy troop (like militia event but x20) and have to suicide them, which is a pain. (unless dom3 has a disband command)

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

They could automatically disband after the battle.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

A) Provinces under enemy dominion get unrest already, albeit a rather small amount.
B) Those provinces might already go indy via special event. Chances might be higher if the unrest is furthered by spies and if misfortune is spreading there.

.. at least that's what happened to me in Dom2!! Haven't seen anything that this was changed in Dom3 ...

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

The rebels force can be based on the population and the factor use by BigJMoney. In is first example, the rebellion is so massive that 38% of the population go in open insurrection. The unit are probably very basic unit like militia. If the Insurection is crushed, the population fall by this rate. A side effect can also be the diminish of the dominion.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

For some reason, I didn't think of population being a factor...silly me :-)

Anyway, don't forget that having PD is not the only way to combat this. It's the last resort, actually. The more efficient ways to comabt it are:

1) High Dominion
2) Order and happiness

In other words, the only area of the game that is drastically changed are those who play with both low dominion and low population control. They need to have more defensive military presence, "or else".

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Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

Maybe it makes order too powerful? the unrest reduction isn't bad as it is (in dom2) and the gold income is insane... maybe we could tie it to a different scale? Drain description says thinking is difficult? Maybe drain makes planning rebelions harder? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

My assumption is that rebels will just resume their normal occupation (like farming, etc) after rebellion succeeds. So the province will become empty of military.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

That's a very radical change considering that the most common way to conquer land is by invading it with military force. It's hard to expect order or high dominion as a result of such action http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

That would be ok I guess, though maybe a small % could stay behind, giving a few units to defend the province with. Alternativly, they could joing the PD.

Re: Religious Uprising Feature
 

Alexti was right, the point isn't to create "free armies", the point is simply to flip the province to new control.

@alexti
True, it would really make people think twice about steamrolling into someone's territory who has a stronger dominion. Don't forget, however, that taking territory means bringing down temples and putting up your own.

Anyway, I'm starting to think this idea has gone beyond modability. How about tying it to the Fortune scale, rather than the order scale, in the form of a new random event? It doesn't work as well in the roleplay sense, but in the game balance sense, it might be more feasible. Simply create a negative random event that only occurs in provinces with enemy dominion. I don't know anything about modding, but I'll assume for now it's not possible to make this army the same allegiance as the enemy dominion, or scale the size of the army to the dominion strength. Anyway, it's a start. Maybe someone can step in here and explain a little bit about modding random events.

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