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- Dominions 3: The Awakening (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/forumdisplay.php?f=138)

- - The Demo (http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=30153)

Well, the game is gone gold... so, what about the demo? Is it coming soon? My gaming budget is kinda limited these days and with the upcoming Gothic 3 and Neverwinter Nights 2... well, I need the demo to finish convincing myself http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Demo would be nice indeed.

I wonder how many playable nations it would contain (for possibly starting an MP game with the hopes of finishing it once the pre-orders arrive)

From what I gathered demo is coming out after October 2nd.

I see, so it won't be too relevant for me http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Quote:

Nerfix said:
From what I gathered demo is coming out after October 2nd.

Hopefully not. Hmm...but I don't know. Which is the best marketing strategy? Release a demo before or after the game is out? Maybe releasing a demo before the game is out would be the best choice, but I don't know too much about marketing.

Well it would be, but the devs can only do so much, especially when there's only one coder.

Don't blame everything on lack of programming resources. High levels of Sloth scales in southern sweden might have something to do with it. As might high levels of Order sclaes in North Carolina.

Too bad North Carolina isn't closer to Sweden. Otherwise, we could all put a lot of faith in Shrapnel and hope for a dominion push to speed up the demo release. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Here's hoping my Luck scale here in Atlanta somehow has an effect.

Quote:

JaydedOne said:
Here's hoping my Luck scale here in Atlanta somehow has an effect.

It hasn't had an effect on 285 traffic, so my hopes are minimal http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

I'm confident that the threat of a sudden and determined supercombatant invasion from the neighboring province of southern Finland will keep the population in southern Sweden busy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

I think Johan took a breather after getting out the Gold.

As far as marketing... Im not sure if the game sales would be effected much by the demo prior to the release of the game. However, a week or two later when we all turn into Zealots trying to convert everyone we know.. well then it would be handy to have. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ahhhh thats the Tshirt I need.
Dominions Zealot

Gandalf Parker

The T-shirt I need is
Dominions Fan(atic) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
I think Johan took a breather after getting out the Gold.
Gandalf Parker

I can understand that. Wish there was a way we could all get together and have a Gold Party.

=$=

Quote:

BigJMoney said:

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
I think Johan took a breather after getting out the Gold.
Gandalf Parker

I can understand that. Wish there was a way we could all get together and have a Gold Party.

=$=

Sure there is. Everyone buys flight tickets to Malm� and we throw a suprise party at the school where KO teaches.

Quote:

DominionsFAN said:

Quote:

Nerfix said:
From what I gathered demo is coming out after October 2nd.

I don't knwo much neither about marketing, yet releasing the game *and* the demo *simultaneously* would likely have maximum "hype" effect http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

One of my favorite comments on other forums, usually when they are complaining about system upgrade problems, is this. Instead of complaining I show sympathy for the IT crew pulling long nights and sign it off with "Who do I call to send the techs a pizza and jolt cola?"

Quote:

Nerfix said:
The T-shirt I need is
Dominions Fan(atic) http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Ok I give you the permission to place my picture to that t-shirt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Quote:

DominionsFAN said:
Ok I give you the permission to place my picture to that t-shirt. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Let's not scare people off.

Im tempted to do it since it takes me about 2 minutes to put his face on a tshirt with text and have it selling on the net.

You'll have to add,

"plus world class street fighter; prepare to be tramled"

on the bottom of it, too. That will give it just the right touch.

=$=

Nono, the bottom text ought to be: "Attack 15, Defence 15, Trample; Prepare to be Thug'd."

Speaking of which... does the Bane Lord have new graphics? I'd love to have a shirt with "Thug Life" in thug font, with a bane lord above it...

Hahaha, that would be awesome.

Quote:

BigJMoney said:
You'll have to add,

"plus world class street fighter; prepare to be tramled"

on the bottom of it, too. That will give it just the right touch.

=$=

Maybe we finally have someone that can take on Uwe Boll?

Quote:

Morkilus said:
Speaking of which... does the Bane Lord have new graphics? I'd love to have a shirt with "Thug Life" in thug font, with a bane lord above it...

Wouldn't that be "Thug Unlife"?

Quote:

Sindai said:

Quote:

Morkilus said:
Speaking of which... does the Bane Lord have new graphics? I'd love to have a shirt with "Thug Life" in thug font, with a bane lord above it...

Wouldn't that be "Thug Unlife"?

Yeah... but White Centaur thugs are so lame.

So...about that demo...

*crosses his fingers*

*burns sacrificial offerings*

*injects things into his arm*

*plays a bone flute*

Smiles evilly ...

And doesn't answer!

Quote:

Kristoffer O said:
Smiles evilly ...

And doesn't answer!

Kris, I....must....play...with..the..demo!!! As soon as possible! Perhaps today? This is an excellent day to release it.. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/stupid.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Today I feel is a good day to release the demo. (Dinosaur Comics reference)

Today is a new day...

...so any chance of a demo?

Pretty, pretty please... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Don't I wish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hey, while we're talking wishful thinking, Shrapnel could make the game available for download for those who've already pre-ordered.

And perhaps someone will buy me a pony too. *grin*

They might make the demo available for download (eventually) but that isnt as easy to do for a game. I wouldnt hold my breath for that.

Quote:

JaydedOne said:
Don't I wish. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hey, while we're talking wishful thinking, Shrapnel could make the game available for download for those who've already pre-ordered.

And perhaps someone will buy me a pony too. *grin*

It won't happen. Tim Brooks [president of Shrapnel] has posted this like 2 weeks ago on Quarter to Three:

"Forgive me for interrupting but I thought I'd try to explain our Gold process, our distribution policies and our thoughts on manuals.

First off let me say thanks to everyone here for supporting the Dominions series, Illwinter Games and Shrpnel Games. Even those who blasted us. I would much rather you speak of Shrapnel in a positive tone, but speaking of us is the important thing. How truly sad it would be if we didn't generate any conversation! So blast away if you must...

The overriding theme of the earlier posts here is the whole digital distribution model and whether it is better than our model of physical product. We are not opposed to distributing digitally (and we do so with many games now), but we do like to give our customers and fans a choice. We do enough physical product with games where we offer both choices to know there is a huge contingent out there that wants that CD and printed manual. So I doubt that our philosphies will change to a great extent any time soon. And with some games, those requiring an in depth manual to understand the intricacies of the game, it just doesn't make sense to us to offer both products. These manuals are usually huge and thus expensive to develop and produce and to recover our costs we need them to sell. And let's face it, we probably don't lose many sales (sure some impulse buys, but how many are we talking about on a very targeted product?) on these games that are offered as just physical product. If someone really wants the game they will buy it.

Plus, there is the bonus of making things tougher on the pirates. We get weekly - not monthly, not twice a month - but several requests every week through customer support where someone says we shipped them the cd, but did not ship the manual (or the really funny ones where they say the got the game at their local Electronics Boutigue and there was no manual in the box). And could we please send them the manual. Well, those who bought Dominions II know that the CD is shrinkwrapped inside the manual. So, if you got the CD, you got the manual. And we don't distribute through traditional retailers...

Now, on to the issue I want it now and our Gold process. First off, as Tom has pointed out, alot of the timing issues aren't under our control. Printers do a fine business, just as CD duplicators do. We have to be fit into their existing schedules and that is beyond our control. Now having said that, here is how we arrived at the October 2nd date (and why you wouldn't get the game any quicker if you could download it):

The manual is huge - it will probably come in at 200-220 pages or so - and is being written by Bruce Geryk, who you all probably know or at least know of. The manual couldn't be completed until we had Gold code as Tom has mentioned. Now that it is almost ready (we should get it early next week), we then must edit and format it and give it back to Bruce to work some additional magic on, and then another round of editing before it is ready for the printers. In all honestly we are looking at a 2 week process before we have a completed manual. Now, here is the part no one has mentioned. Once we have the completed manual, we now have to get the review copies off to the mags and sites that want to review the game. These review opportunities are an important part of marketing the game. The reviewers need at least two weeks (they really want longer, but 2-3 weeks is all we will give them) once we get them the Gold copy. Luckily, since it is a physical game, we can use this 2-3 week downtime to get the CDs pressed, the manuals printed and the game packaged (shrinkwrapped). And now we are at October 2nd and are ready to ship the game to those who have ordered it.

But, even if we had a downloadable version (which we don't), it would still require the same time frame. So, you would still be looking at October 2nd.

Some may ask, well why announce Gold so early then? You're talking about the game aren't you? <wink>

Thanks for listening,

Tim Brooks
President
Shrapnel Games, Inc."

How quickly I forget. I remember reading that post. Perhaps I blotted it out of memory in favor of the above-mentioned wishful thinking. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Hmmm. I think I'll start a strat review site, just to get an early copy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Anyone know why black steel helmets only improve my wyrm's prot by 2 each? Is it a balance mod thing?

18 is pretty good, but I was a little surprised/disappointed.

Rabe

I never read that post originally, but my gut feeling was correct. Pirating did play at least some hand in the desire to only print the manual, rather than create a PDF. I am horrified to see that they got such lousy requests on a weekly basis, though. That's disgusting. It causes me to wonder what should happen if my Dominions II manual should finally kick the bucket. How many loops would I have to jump through to get a replacement, even if I am willing to pay a few $$?

One promising piece of information I am gleaning from this, however, is that none of the above necessitates that a demo cannot be ready some time before/around shipping time. I am in a thread about the demo, right? The two week time frame for game reviews, CD pressing, manual printing, etc. could also be used as demo creation time. Whether Illwinter are going to push themselves that hard to get a demo out is another story, but I'll keep my fingers crossed.

@rabe
Interesting place for your query, but my understanding is that creatures with natural protection get diminished returns from wearing armor. There is a formula for it, look around on the boards. Heck, it might even be in the manual. I think this includes protection bonuses you get from some spells/items. Barksin and invulnerability come to mind.

=$=

Quote:

rabelais said:Anyone know why black steel helmets only improve my wyrm's prot by 2 each? Is it a balance mod thing?
Rabe

See section 7.13 of Liga's Manual Addendum for formula or, since the link seems to be broken:

"If a units has both natural protection and armor, to calculate the protection values you have to:

Pb = base protection, intrinsic, from stone skin etc. Pa = protection from armor. Pt = total protection. Pb and Pa are always restricted to 40 or less.

Pt=Pb+Pa -(Pa*Pb)/40

So a unit with 10 intrinsic protection and a total of 18 in equipment armor would have an effective armor of: 10+18-(10*18)/40 = 28-4.5 = 23.5, rounded up to 24.

[Zen]"

So the maximum protection possible in the game is 0 natural and the Monlith Armor (30), Barrier (7), Black Steel Helm (3), Krupp's Bracers (4), and Bracers (2) = 46. Oh, +18 for Crystal Shields in the other three hands, if there is a four hander with no protection.

I dont think this was done on purpose but I think its great that the Space Empires V demo came out already. Its going to make the Dom3 demo look great. Of course Dom3 cant please everyone so there is bound to be discussions about what people feel should or should not have been "fixed" in their opinion. But the SEV demo is getting much more flak than I think the Dom3 one will. Good timing even tho Im sure it was accidental.

Quote:

Gandalf Parker said:
I dont think this was done on purpose but I think its great that the Space Empires V demo came out already. Its going to make the Dom3 demo look great. Of course Dom3 cant please everyone so there is bound to be discussions about what people feel should or should not have been "fixed" in their opinion. But the SEV demo is getting much more flak than I think the Dom3 one will. Good timing even tho Im sure it was accidental.

Sure, as Dom3 didn't switch to 3D strat map http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif !

SEV demo is nice enough. Been playing it a bit.

Don't get me started on the SE:V Demo. For every NIce addition, they seemed to 'Wank' something that was streamlines in the previous version. A Demo for Dom3 would be nice but the Dom2 Demo and what I'm not hearing 'Thru the cracks' in these forums by playtesters has me sold that Dom3 is still about as streamlined as Dom2.

Just 1 more turn games, stop becoming 'Just 1 more turn' when extra 'Clicks' and unwieldy UI are plugged into even the best of games. I dont get that feeling from what I've read here. (Unlike my hands-on experience with the SE:V demo. Don't get me wrong, There is a very good game there, a few non-changes in the interface and it would have been great.)

Of course, go ahead and Make that Demo quick. I have several gamer friends I would make sure download it and give it a spin.

Thats a great point. The SEV demo lost that "just one more turn" thing for me. Instead it became "where is that older space game". Its hard for me to give the game the decent try-out that Im deterrmined to give it. It deserves at least that.

Well Aaron the developer of SE5 did make a very smart move by releasing the demo first. The greatest benefit is all the fans become testers in locating bugs... and some obvious ones have been found. Heaven knows if the gamers here find any major bugs we won't blame Illwinter... we'll blame the beta-testers.
Another benefit of releasing the SE5 demo now is it gives the gaming community a chance to voice their opinion about the changes... allowing Aaron time to add or remove a few extra tweaks/balance/features.

It all depends on how close SE:V really is to release. If it's an early demo (like a public beta), this means some of the "bad moves" might still be changed. If it's right before gold, it means the game _will_ release 99% as it is in the demo, and apparently the eagerly awaiting fans won't like it until it's significantly patched. Not sure it's so smart a move, in the end.

I'm not an expert on SE, and I'm guessing Dom3 will keep me busy for some time after it releases, so I'm probably going to wait a bit on SE:V to see how the experts are judging it.

We're talking about games that live or die by word of mouth, not huge releases where you see trailers in every computer games store. Hype won't sell this game; happy fans will.