SE V demo Interface
 

If I've done this right there'll be an attachment with a picture of my screen during system display. I'm having a hard time getting past the cack-handed way this is handled. The default option is a 3D display, except it isn't. It's a faux 3D display. Before you tee off on my about space being 3D consider that the 3D display is just a lumpy approximation of a 2D image anyway. There's no actual benefit to be had from the 3D display. If you've ever referred to a map you'll know that they're a 2D representation of a 3D environment. Nobody feels the need to make maps 3D to represent the height of a mountain or the depth of a valley so why is it necessary in a GUI? I'll probably edit this further to show other examples of the interface that make no sense to me. The file names should make this self-explanatory.

Re: SE V demo Interface
 

Do we need this?

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How about this?

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3D rocks?

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I don't think I follow what you're getting at...

The angled view does let you make more use of your screen without having stuff be off the edge.
Tilting compresses the vertical, and essentially changes the aspect ratio of the map.


PS:
How are those screenshots any different from stuffing your view into the far corner of an SE4 combat replay?

I'd prefer a more flexible camera to what we have now than a more restricted one.

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Long and short of it is there anything in the first image that can really be improved upon with further panning out, panning in or converting to 3D?

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I refer to the combat replay view about once every 30 or 40 turns on average since I only play strategic. I refer to the system display constantly.

The other point being that there's a large blank border around the scrollable display probably to account for the fact that when you scroll right-in the border represents about a hex and a half but when you scroll out you can illogically scroll the 2d view about 2/3rds the length of itself. I kinda thought this was self-explanatory from the pictures.

If I can't lock the edge scrolling I'm constantly having to re-centre what can elegantly be represented by picture No 1. If I switch to 2D that's pretty much all I (ME) need. Your mileage may vary but flicking the screen about to get a decent view doesn't seem like progress.

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My preferred view is as shown

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Yeah, definitely.
Most of the improvements come from modding, however.

Zooming in and going to angle view to make better use of the screen area would still help.

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That's actually fine by me too! It's basically the 3D view of my 2D view. The difference being that when you hop to a new system you'll have to rotate it to see what's going on there. And then rotate it back when you click back on your homeworld. Your call! Simple 2D view works for all systems.

Mainly what I want is the option to lock the view once I get it right. Now obviously that's not much use for a 3D view like your's, what with the constant twirling and all, but a locked down 2D view will serve me until SEVI.

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Oh and not to ***** or anything I was trying to keep the screenies under 100kb with my own postings just in case there are still dialup users here.

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Eh? I almost never rotate the view... there is no need. (After all, all of the hexes in my view are bigger than the hexes in your original top-down view)

Once in a while I might, if I feel like getting a closeup of some particularily devious fleet deployment of SE5a's http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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like behind a sun SJ?

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You'll rotate the view every time you inadvertnetly stray off to either side actually. Just like you'll have to change your zoom if you go to far top or bottom.

And like I said this is the exact problem I have with the 2D view. I mainly just want a way to lock the view. I have Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. Try moving your mouse by making a fist and using the edge of you palm to move it - this is my world. I can FPS with the best of them on easy but fine control has gone. If you ever suffer RSI you will learn to distill your computing into what is good for it and what is bad for it. Needless mouse clinking and movement is a bad thing.

You say you don't need to rotate the view much but I don't see why you should have to rotate the view at all. In any event I can't see how that skewed 3D representation (of a myth of a view) is actually helpful to you, more than a straight 2D view would be. You're actually letting the skewed view play tricks with you vis a vis distance to objectives.

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I agree with you about too much clicking.
And a lock against accidental moves would be nice.

There are no perspective tricks with distances or anything...
Distances are all in "number of hexes", anyways. My goal is to have everything on the screen at once, and have it be as big as possible.

There is perspective, but it is no more a trick than a 2D photograph of the backyard.

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so SJ, that screenshot seems to not be of the demo. I'd venture a guess that its not even a screenshot of the stock game. What kind of mod are you running there that gives your homeworld a scanning-range of 3 on the first turn of the game?

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What you see are just trivial things like new hex colours and settings.txt saying scanning range for colonies := 3 instead of 0.

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How did you shrink the Empire flags without also shrinking the base/ship/unit # displays?

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Unfortunately they're attached on the same .bmp image so you can't reduce one without reducing the other.

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I had to do it by editing all the bitmaps...

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What percentage did you reduced it to? I reduced them to 40% size (by area) with my mod. Also, did you do them all - alliance and neutral flags too?

Edit:
Nevermind. I saw the download. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

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Almost all of them...
I've gotten all the ones that are attached to shipsets, but I think there are a few independent ones floating around still.

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That's not good. One of the fun parts of playing with different ship sets is being able to see the ships.

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On behalf of us dialup users, it is appreciated.

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I thought someone asked this question in one of the 3 SE5 demo threads we have going but I didn't find it, so here goes:

How do you scrap facilities? The Colonies and Construction Queues screens have "Scrap Cargo" buttons but not Scrap Facilities. The Deconstruction Orders button has mothball/analyze/abandon planet/etc. ....but not Scrap Facilities. Am I just not looking carefully?

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Facilities are under the scrap cargo.

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how do you see planet orders?

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GAH! Thanks.

System View: I'd like the ability to zoom out enough to see the whole system, while still retaining the 3D view.

Tactical View: Definitely needs expanded camera controls, at least on par with the current system view.

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Cool. Thanks. I used Bit Torrent and I am now exploring the game. It's decent looking. I'm having trouble finding where the facilities on my planet are listed other than scrap cargo area. I noticed current facilities/maximum facilities is listed as tonnage. 19000/20000. I have room for one more facilitie I think.

Update: OK. Right click on the planet image in the interface to get planet screen. Also, right click on planet in system then choose report. Perhaps double clicking on planet in system should do this too.

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-----Let's have some thing neat to look at with detail that changes often in between turns instead of a black screen.

-----Let's have an opening cinematic to the loading of the game (also maybe at a game start?), even if it's very short.

-----How about some movement animation on the title screen?

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NO. Anything that gets between me and the main menu when I boot the game is BAD. I don't want to be informed that it runs best on AtiVida cards or see StrategyFirst's animated logo, I want to PLAY.

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Shift clicking, such as used in ship design, should be noted on the appropriate screen.Perhaps with a scroll over.

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That is exactly why I play my PBW turns using SE4 Gold instead of Deluxe.

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People opposed to a cinematic are, I believe, in the minority compared to the vast gamers in a desired market.

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Specific improvment ideas are always welcome in Aarons email box.

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Malfador is a game company, not a movie studio.

Non-interactive video sequences hurt gameplay. Aaron is plenty busy fixing bugs and implementing the actual game.

I dunno about you or them, but as far as I can see a game should be played not watched.

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Is there a difference in behavior between Core/Escort/Picket ships other than their location in the task force? How do I tell which ship is the lead ship in a task force, especially in tactical combat? Since the rest will move to maintain formation, you should effectively be able to move the whole TF by moving just the lead ship. The tactical mini-map also needs some zoom functions. In my most recent battle against a huge planet my fleet was almost entirely "off map". I can only imagine the difficulty of tracking separate ships/TFs after they move off different edges of the mini-map.

I love the depth that fleet organization has, but the interface needs work. Like much of the game's interface, there are screens that present info, but in order to change that info you have to go to other screens. For example, if you select a fleet and right-click to bring up its report, it will display the attack/defense formations, list all the ships, and display TF information on a sub-tab, and the warp transit order on a sub-tab. You can't change any of this stuff without leaving the Fleet Report. I shouldn't have to go to the Fleet Transfer Screen to change the Task Force formations and strategies for a single fleet I'm looking at already.

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Yes, yes, yes 1000 times! I completely agree. The first thing I do with games that have an opening video is shut it OFF (if the game gives me the option of doing so).

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The more people play and the more people report bugs and offer suggestions the better the game will become. Remember that helpful feed back with detailed bug reports or specific suggesions coupled with a save game or two can only help to make the game better.

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Not sure if it was a bug but my first battle my ship would refuse to move toward the enemy. May have been bc i didnt set a strategy when i built it but then i couldnt ad one after. i had to physically move the ship by clicking near the enemy, clicking on it would cause my ship to turn and run.

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In my opinion the UI needs an overhaul, so many things are either completely unintuitive, or takes more 'work' to do. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but retro-fitting seems to be a prime example. It seems to be impossible to retrofit multiple ships at the same time, also.

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It is definitely not just you.

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I agree it needs an early overhaul already.

If looking at the entire system- you can barely see ships.

Way too much clicking everywhere.

The windows at the bottom seem to be taking up too much screen real estate.

Being able to lock the rotate and zoom with the mouse would be most helpful and also it does not seem to be much of a zoom as it is moving in and out.

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You won't find one person amoung the "group" that will disagree with you regarding UI issues. The focus has been on bug fixes and getting the features to work, and balance, not UI improvments. However now that the Demo is out and the Fan feed back is coming in, perhaps the focus will now be shifted a bit toward improving the UI and its functionality.

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Having had an entire night and much of today at work to think about the game, I have come to a painful conclusion:

There are a lot of little problems. Most of them I could probably power through and just be constantly annoyed by. There are, however, two overwhelming problems that I can't get past:

1) The main window UI needs to be fixed.
2) The ship design UI needs to be fixed.

I can go into detail on what I mean, if needed. But until these UI issues are fixed, the game is, to me, not viable and I WILL NOT be buying it.

If those things are fixed, then I'll buy the game immediately (and then, being an annoyingly critical S0B, I'll press for all the other problems to be fixed...)

I really can't see playing it with the UI as is.

Thanks,

AMF

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AMF, I think it is save to say that us beta testers are not surprised by this conclusion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

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Im just generally unhappy. Im forcing myself to continue playing the SEV demo to try and give it a fair chance but I feel pulled back to my SEIV game. So far Im really wanting an SE 4.5 with 4's graphics and some of 5's features.

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As much as I really, really like some of the new stuff in SEV, like the much improved diplomacy, there are just too many other problems that really ruin it for me. All in all, this demo certainly does not present the game in a good light. Which is to be expected when the beta testers are ignored. Unless the full version fixes a lot of the issues presented (and we get a patched demo to prove it), I just don't see me wasting my money on another Moo3..

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I'm sorry to say that I feel the same way you do. I spent a lot of time with the SEV demo on Friday night, and also played it for most of Saturday. I wanted to post what you and some others have posted late last night, but held off because I wondered if maybe it's "just me." I can see that it isn't.

I won't be buying SEV. The many issues with the UI just kill the game for me.

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Unfortunally i agree with the two of us. Im very sorry to hear myself saying that since i was expecting so much from SEV. I remember months ago when we had rumours in the boards that the game is bugged etc. The testers said something like "the game is enjoyable etc". At this point, im not enjoying it.