SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Just a quick rundown of the basic tasks in each game. I'm trying to get an idea of exactly where the SE5 UI could use help. Once the list is *finshed* I'll email the areas that can be improved to MM. Feel free to add your own comments and additional tasks..but please, UI items only.

System Display: Se5 takes up the entire screen. At resolutions greater than 1024x768, SE4 takes up a 1024x768 "window".

SE5's systems are much larger, but this results in scrolling and panning of the system display. Oddly, there doesn't seem to be a way to move the viewport left/right in skewed view, nor is there a way to lock the camera. The Center View button resets the view to skewed, which it should not do.

Advantage: slim SE5. Improvements: add a left/right panning command and a lock view feature, as well as a "range to target" display (click on a square in SE4 and highlighter another square- it will tell you the range. SE5 doesn't do this). Adding some indication of what *level* of scanning a hex is under would be helpful as well.

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Control Grouping: SE4 has all the controls at the top and right of the screen; SE5 puts them at the top and bottom. SE4s controls do not block the system map- SE5's can.

Advantage: SE4. Improvements: allow the SE5 command blocks to be dragged to different points on the screen.

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Right Clicking- Right Click works only for unit stats in SE4, and then only in the Design windows and unit groups. It brings up a SE3-style command menu as well in SE5. Advantage: SE5.

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Selecting planets: in SE4 you click on the sector, then on the planet. In SE5 you do the same. However the empire flags in SE5 sometimes force you to move the camera so you can see the planet to click on it. The flags also tend to overlap if two nearby hexes are occupied.

Advantage: SE4. Improvements: Make the flag itself clickable, or make it smaller without reducing the size of the status icons.

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Status Icons: SE4 tells you how many objects are in space in that sector. SE5 does the same but breaks it down into Bases, Ships, Units.

Advantage: SE5. Improvements: See above.

SE4 allows you to have lettering under a planet for a number of different facilities on a planet. SE5 removes most of those catagories, retaining only Has Spaceport, Can Resupply, Has Spaceyard, and Can Repair. It adds icons to display empty construction ques, domed colonies, fighters/sats/mines/drones/troops/WPs in cargo.

Advantage: SE5. Improvements: ?

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Access Construction Que: process is identical.

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Sector List: The SE4 sector list is longer - it displays 9 items to SE5's 6. Units do not stack in SE5, so they will take up more room on this display. In SE4, clicking a unit displays its detailed screen- you have double or right click for this in SE5. In SE4 you have to shift-click to select multiple units; in SE5 you just click them in turn.

Advantage: Nil. Improvements: Allow the size of the SE5 unit icons to be reduced, fitting more into the sector box.

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Construction Que: SE5 adds item costs and an icon for each item to the list of items to be built. In SE4 you have to right click on an item or add it to the que to get this info.

SE5 tells you if there's a spaceport in the system; SE4 does not. SE5 lets you specify a number of items to add. SE4 has the "emergency build" command right on the main screen- SE5 needs a sub-menu to access it, along with On Hold, Repeat, and Move To. (the Repeat command has improved, though).

The reorder que setting is similar, except SE5 lacks the "go to top" and "go to bottom" commands. Right-clicking on an item in SE5 gives you more information (eg its strategy).

Advantage: Leaning SE4. Improvements: Move Emergency Build, Hold Que, and Repeat back to the main screen. "Clear items" and "Create item list" could be moved to the More Que Options button, since they aren't used as much.

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Retrofitting: in SE4 you click on a sector, then click the scrap/analze/mothball button, select the items you want to work with and pick an option on the right. Clicks: 5.
In SE5 you click on a sector, click on the unit to be worked with, click "deconstruction orders", then on the appropriate item. However you cannot do ANYTHING besides scrap to multiple ships at once even if they are of the same class. Clicks: 6 per ship.

Advantage: Se4. Improvements: Allow multiple ships to be retrofitted/fired on/etc at once. Leave the menu in "deconstruction orders" after an option is selected.

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Scrap Facilities: SE5: Click on the sector, then on the planet, click on "Cargo orders", then "scrap cargo", select the facilities and cargo you want to scrap. Jetison cargo works the same way except its a different button on the sub-menu. Number of clicks: 6
SE4: Click on the sector, then on the planet, click "jetison cargo" or "scrap facilities". Select cargo to jetison or facilitiy to scrap. Number of clicks: 5. SE4 does not allow you to scrap cargo.

Advantage: Slight SE4. Improvements: Make sure the manual mentions that facilities are considered cargo!

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Command Menu: SE4's has 40 buttons. SE5's has 18, and SE5 has MORE commands to use, resulting in many sub-menus. Advantage: Se4. Improvements: not sure yet

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

In research/intel window make available to hold the mouse button on "%" bars when setting values. Yea I know about shift thingy (from this forum, not from the game itself...), but it's not adequate.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

You can click directly on the bar to set a value, as well.

Actually the "hold to do it more" thing could be incorperated into pretty much EVERY screen.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Under the little planet on the Empire flag is a box. The box fills up vertically based on how populated the planet is.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

huh, I thought that was for the number of planets in sector. Editing OP. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

PD- I agree with most of your points except one, where you say:

"SE4 allows you to have lettering under a planet for a number of different facilities on a planet. SE5 removes most of those catagories, retaining only Has Spaceport, Can Resupply, Has Spaceyard, and Can Repair. It adds icons to display empty construction ques, domed colonies, fighters/sats/mines/drones/troops/WPs in cargo.

Advantage: SE5. Improvements: ?"

I would say SE5 since SE4 required you to click each planet to figure out if any sats/wps/fighters were ready for pick-up (now you can see each system at a glance). Also, SE4 had no way to tell which planet had an empty construction queue by looking at the system. Now we do (similar to GalCiv II).

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Which is what I said. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif However we did lose some status icons in the bargin.

More write-ups later. The ship design screen especially should be interesting.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Whoops, re-read your post now I understand your system. Sorry about that.

While it is NOT an excuse or subsitute for a poor UI, keep in mind that there are shortcuts for just about everything to minimize clicks (i.e. retrofit - CTRL + E, CTRL + Click to move a ship, etc. that are still being documented).

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

This game reeks of potential.
I'm pretty excited.
Anyway, here are mine:

Most menus and sub-menus: Visually confusing. I'd reccommend darkening the system screen behind the menu (50% opacity maybe?) Something small, but I think it would help considerably.

Ship Design Screen:
allow a (doublt/shift/ctrl?) click to add a component to the next available slot. Move the filter comps button somewhere else. I'm not too fond of the upper/mid/low decks as it is, but the restriction on armor worries me. The ship designs can only hold so much armor, but (apparently) almost as many shield generators as you could ever want. Not sure if this is a good or a bad thing. And, if armor ends up becoming unbalanced, what's to stop a gamey shipset creator to add unnatural numbers of armor slots?

As an aside - that's a lot of research for ship hull levels :\

That's it for now, more later probably

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Part 2:

Ship Design Screen, main: SE4 has buttons for switching between ships/units, enemy ships/units and show obselete. SE5 makes you click through a sub-menu or right click on the colum header to do that. SE5's Ship Detail screen has all the details of SE4s in fewer pages, except it does not show component levels. SE5's Upgrade/Copy buttons don't always copy the ship name. Upgrade will sometimes add a number (12345) or a Roman Numeral (I, II) to the end of the name, but this isn't consistant. More importantly, if you try to change the ship's name, the name is completely erased.

Advantage: Slightly SE4. Improvements: Show component levels as small numbers in the component boxes, as in SE4, allow changing the ship strategy from the design details box, remove the Filter button and move the buttons in that menu back to the main menu..there is room. When the player clicks "set name", input the current name into the box so the player can change it rather than having to re-type the entire thing.

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note: this next section is JUST ABOUT THE UI. The merits of the new ship design system are off-topic. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Ship Design, Designing: SE5 has a screen to select ship size, SE4 has a pop-up screen. If you want to change size in SE4, you select a new hull. Doing the same in SE5 clears all components from the ship. In SE4 you can select a name from a drop-down box or click in the box and type one; in SE5 you have a button elsewhere on the screen to click, bringing up a screen with the same function. SE4 allows you to add new design types and delete old ones; SE5 does not.

SE4 displays to-hit, defensive bonuses. SE5 displays strategy, crew, ordinance, and allows you to set the strategy here. SE5 has an "Autocomplete" feature and a "clear design" button. SE4 allows you to filter comps with a button; SE5 has that and a right-click menu. SE5 has tonnage remaining on a different display than speed, cargo space, etc. SE5 displays total hull structure.

To add multiple components in SE4, you click multiple times. To do the same in SE5, you shift-click on slots. You can't switch between decks while "holding" a component in SE5. SE4's component list displays 9 comps at a time, and can only be scrolled by clicking. SE5's displays 8 at a time, and and be scrolled by clicking or the scroll bar. To use a mount in SE4, you click Comp Enh, then the mount type. To use one in SE5 you click the mount type.

SE5 displays component levels only in the component list, not on the ship. SE5's component detail screen is scrollable; SE4's is not. SE4 allows you to use obselete components; SE5 does not.

Advantage: Nil. Improvements: SHOW TO-HIT EFFECTS. They could fit quite easily into the display between tonnage used and total cost. Allow clicking on the name to change it. Swap the locations of the Hull Structure and Tonnage Used displays. Impliment custom Design Types and allow deleting of design types. Show component levels on the ship itself.
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General Interface Issue: The use of the keyboard is not consistant. Sometimes Enter closes a window, sometimes ESC does, sometimes you can use the arrow keys to move a list sometimes you can't.

Advantage: Nil, SE4 had the same problem. Improvement: Allow the use of the keyboard in ALL windows. A good example of one that doesn't allow it is the ship design screen- ESC and ENTER work, but you can't scroll the ship list with the arrow keys or pageup/down. Filter Components allows the use of ESC but not ENTER; stuff like that.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Part 3:
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System List: This has no equivilent in SE4. Improvements: The Filter list would be more useful if you could select multiple items. Like all report screens, the tabs seem to take up too much room. The additional sorting capability would be good, but some tabs could be combined (planet icon and size, in the planet list for example). The "layout control" option would be more useful if you could copy existing layouts and save them.

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Planets List: SE5 displays all the information SE4's screen did, but its split into multiple layouts. Creating a custom layout aleviates this problem, and still allows use of the new features like time to arrival. SE4 had multi-line displays- it showed picture, size, type and name on one tab for example. SE5 has single-item tabs, which allows for finer sorting. In SE4 you click to go to a planet, in SE5 you double-click. Both allow a right-click to access the planet detail screen. Both forget where you where if you use Goto Planet.

Advantage: Clear SE5. Improvements: Add a "SE4 style" tab to the default layouts for SE4 users. Remeber which planet the player used Goto on and start there the next time the screen is opened.

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Colonies List: The top-left screen has all the same info, and SE5 adds "number of races". SE4 filtered via side buttons, SE5 does it via the filter popup box (are we sensing a theme, here?). The screens are otherwise very similar except SE5 has more information and customizble layouts. SE5's list. Advantage: SE5. Improvements: As with System List and Colony list, some of the headings seem to take up too much room and could be combined.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Quote:

"Upgrade will sometimes add a number (12345) or a Roman Numeral (I, II) to the end of the name, but this isn't consistant. "

I've noticed that it is consistant (sort of), to me it's an interesting feature. If I make a ship and call it 'Dart Mk I', every time I upgrade it the 'I' increments to 'II' and so on. However any ship that doesn't have a roman numeral last, gets a random number, that needs to be fixed.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Not entirely true. A ship named Vomit A, on upgrade, turns into Vomit A II. I think it may be tied to the single-character thing at the end.

A ship named Alabama gets the 265657 thing. Some get none at all, which I really don't get.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

A few UI improvement suggestions:

Ship Design screens: allow right-click menu for filtering buttons, to bypass the dialogs. So changing for filtering from non-obsolete ships to non-obsolete units takes two clicks and small mouse movement, instead of three clicks, and much more mouse movement. Same for component filtering in the actual design window.

Cargo Transfer/Unit Launch/etc. screens: make the display collapsable. So if you have 100 sats in a group, and you aren't working with any particular satellite in the group, you can just collapse the group and have more screen space for anything else in the sector. This applies to the cargo/supplies/ordnance for individual items as well.

Treaty Negotiation: allow for this to collapse as well, so specific provisions do not appear until you select the higher-level provision it is under. For example, don't show the 5-30% in trade treaties until you select the Trade Percentage provision.

Systems/Planets/Colonies/Ships/Construction Queues screen: allow Layout and Filter buttons to have right-click menu access, to prevent needing to go through the dialog.

News Screen: Make a small view! While the pictures are pretty and all, I want to be able to see more than three news items at a time. And also, if a spaceyard constructs more than one item in a turn, put that all in one news report, instead of breaking them up into several.

Orders Buttons: it would be nice if the 18 orders buttons in the bottom right of the screen could be customized. So, in the early game, I could arrange it so the top six buttons are Move, Goto Waypoint, Colonize, Explore, Survey, and Resupply at Nearest, and arrange the other orders in customized submenu buttons. It would be even nicer if we could do this based on the context of what is selected, and save these layouts to distribute to others. Or... I could just start memorizing those hotkeys http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

System View: it would be nice to have the axis of rotation for panning be somewhere other than the center of the system. This one is completely pointless, really, it just makes things look cooler; you can set your camera over one of your colonies, and survey the system from that POV. Also, is there a way to turn off the hex grid? How about grid off, and keep the outer boundries for FOV? Also, clicking on a flag should highlight the sector the flag is attached to.


That's it for now, I'll probably come up with more later.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

FYI: The latest version has an improved ship report screen which displays informations about a component just like in the ship report in combat.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Will: the ship-design right click menu is there. You have to right-click on the Design tab. Same with the component window. Same with ships/planets/colonies. Just right-click the tabs.

Log screen: click on the tab above the icon. Combining reports would be very nice, yes.

Orders: Ooo, good idea.

System: you can turn off the grid in..empire options, I think.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Part 4:

Ship/Unit screen: SE5 displays bases in space and mothballed ships/bases in addition to the info in SE4's upper-left box. In SE4 you can display ships, units, and/or fleets. In SE5 you can do the same and also show enemy/allied items, but you can only do one at a time. You cannot, for example, show units and ships at the same time as in SE4. the layouts are similar but SE5's General tab has slightly less information.

Advantage: Nil. Improvements: Same as with the other list screens. There's a lot of wasted space on the right side- putting commonly-used options back into those boxes from the Layout and Filter screens would save time. Also, showing fleets should show the fleets, not the ships in the fleets. In games with extremely large fleets, the fleet display option will be all but useless.

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Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

You can already use right-click to filter both items from their column header.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

Ok, didn't know about the right-click on column headers. Would still be nice to offer the same right-click menu for the buttons as well.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

SEIV: You were capable of selecting which type you wanted, ships/bases or units/fighters/mines for you or the enemy easily with one click on a button to the side.

SE V: Now you have to:

Click on Filter

Click on button for which filter you want

Click on "Ok"

Three clicks.

SEIV : T3h win.

Re: SE:IV Gold vs SE5 Demo: Basic UI
 

As has been pointed out several times, in SE5: Right-click on design tab, click appropriate button. Don't even have to move your mouse from the ship list.