Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Might as well start asking questions, and getting answers, so that we can easily start putting together the mods that will make SEV a great game. I ask that you bold your question, normal type any other explanation or text, and if you have an answer please Quote the Bold, and then Italics your answer.

Thanks...

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can you pick different models for each level increase in a ship class?

This would facilitate the improvement and upgrade of certain vessel classes. A Frigate from WW1 is completely different from a Frigate of modern times. Or another example would be like the progression of a the Enterprise in Star Trek, from the TV version to the Movie version.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Kana: I don't want to think about how much work that would take to make a complete shipset. Even if it is possible, I don't think you'd find much support.
My question:

Can you impliment action-specific experience types?

I was looking through experience types earlier, and noticed a lot of different catagories. This may be a well-documented feature I've just missed, but I think it would be cool if, say, after n kt of damage towards a planet, a ship gains a "seige experience" modifier. Or picks up "green/experienced/veteran Sniper" after n# successful beam hits.
Something like that.

Scale factors for building prices and maintenance?
 

Are there any overarching scaling factors for building prices and maintenance somewhere in the text files?
In SE4, I always found that the price of ships was much too low compared to their maintenance cost(or maintenance too high comp. to building cost), meaning that it did not sufficiently hurt to loose a ship. Basically, every 4 turns you paid the building price again through maintenance cost. Why bother to bring back a damaged ship to repair, when during the time you drag it to a shipyard, you spend more resources than it would take to build a whole new ship?
Therefore, I approximately doubled the building cost and time for all hulls and components and halfed maintenance cost. However, while cutting maintenance in half was very easily done in the SE4 text files, doubling production cost requires touching every single hull and component - several hours of work each time a major patch came out.

In SE5, is there a general scaling parameter for production cost, too?

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintenance?
 

Is there a master list of all abilities/restrictions for SEV like SEIV's Abilities.txt file?

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can't be done.

You could however make new ship classes available, but you'd have a very cluttered ship design screen.

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintena
 

jowe01:
You know, with a simple python script, you could double all costs in SE4 in a matter of seconds. See attached file. You will need Python 2.4 installed to run it.

For SE5, it would have to be a little more complex to handle formulas, but that will be easy enough to do.

Of course, it will indiscriminately double unit component costs as it is, but there are a lot of components that can be used on ships, satellites, and drones in stock.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can anyone decifer the weapon damage and range formulas?

I'm referring to stuff like this:

Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (5 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 2)) - iif([%Range%] > Min(30, (([%Level%] - 1) * 20) + 10), 10000, 0)

I'll try to explain my understanding, taking it piece by piece:
(5 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 2)) Gives a damage rate based on the level of the component.

Min(30, (([%Level%] - 1) * 20) + 10) Compares a number to the value of a function based on the weapon level and returns the lower of the two?

- iif([%Range%] > ..... ,10000, 0) If the range is greater than the value returned above, return 1st number. Otherwise return the 2nd number?


Geesh. I think I'm going to need Excel graphs to tweak damage formulas for my mods.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Translastion (please correct me if I'm wrong)

Assume a level 1 weapon..

damage = (5 + (1 - 1) * 2) = 10 (with 0 damage past range 30)

The damage I have almost no trouble with, but I'm not too sure of anything after the 'iif' statement.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

The given formula is for a weapon without any range attenuation, so I will instead use this one:

Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula := (55 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5)) - (([%Range%] / 10) * 5) - iif([%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 50), 10000, 0)

=0=

iff(CONDITION, a, b) means:

If CONDITION is true, do a. Otherwise, do b. It is a messy way to put:

if (CONDITION) {
do a
}
else {
do b
}

Sadly, it is the only way to do that when your entire "formula" has to fit on a single line.

Min(x, y) is a function that returns whichever value is smaller, x or y.

=0=

Now to look at the formula:

(55 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5)) - (([%Range%] / 10) * 5) - iif([%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 50), 10000, 0)

The first part is pretty straightforward:
(55 + (([%Level%] - 1) * 5))

This evaluates to 5 plus 2 times one less than component level. This part is the base damage value, the damage at range 0.

The next part is the damage attenuation rate (aka: damage reduction over range).

- (([%Range%] / 10) * 5)

For every 10 units of distance, subtract 5 damage.

The last part, the big iff, is the max range setting.

- iif([%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 50), 10000, 0)

In this case, we have:

CONDITION = [%Range%] > Min(90, (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 50)
a = 10000
b = 0

When the range to the target gets larger than a certain value, 10000 will be subtracted from the damage value. This effectively cuts off damage at that range, due to negative value handling.

The CONDITION is the part that is determining the max range; it is the minimum of 90 or (([%Level%] - 1) * 4) + 50). Thus, every instance of the weapon will have at most a range of 90. The second value that we compare 90 to is the range increase via tech levels. It is 50 plus 4 times one less than the level of the component. Isn't that nice wording? hehe.

This breaks out to the following ranges at tech levels:

1: 50 + 0 = 50
2: 50 + 4 = 54
3: 50 + 8 = 58
4: 50 + 12 = 62
5: 50 + 16 = 66
...
10: 50 + 40 = 90
11: 50 + 44 = 94

Note that level 11 gets a value greater than 90, so the Min function call forces the max range down to 90.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

My head hurts...

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Would this be a bad time to point out that as weapon forumlas go, that's going to be on the SIMPLE end? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

There's actually a number of different ways to construct the formula for the case Fyron used as an example, but when you're sticking in the level and range variables, it always looks messy. But really it's easy. There's the default damage value and the amount that it increases per level; the attenuation; and lastly the range.

----

Bearclaw - There are files that describe the abilities etc., but I think they're only partially complete at this time.

----

Are there any overarching scaling factors for building prices and maintenance somewhere in the text files? - From your examples, instead of doubling build rates, why not just make maint even less like 1/12 or 1/16?

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

How about a quick and dirty formula builder app? It requires .NET Framework 2.0.

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/te...mg_builder.zip

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Oh sure...you give me a headache THEN you go and release a simpler way...*takes 2 advil and glares at the screen* http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

I have uploaded a better version that uses number boxes instead of text boxes. I set the limits to 1000, figuring only a totally crazy person would go that high... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

http://www.spaceempires.net/files/te...mg_builder.zip

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Except now you can't put in exponents, etc. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintena
 

Thanks Fyron. Now Python is completely new for me (actually I have not written a program or a macro in 20 years). Where can I get it? Any good newbie documentation you know of?

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintena
 

http://www.python.org

The official docs on that site are rather good, I find. The great thing about Python is that it is powerful like C++, but designed to have good, well-defined and easy to follow syntax (much better than any Basic attempt for this, IMO). One of the primary design goals was making it easy to learn and use, in fact. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintena
 

Thanks, I give it a try. However, that address does not seem to work, at least not right now.

Re: Scale factors for building prices and maintenance?
 

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can there be more than 17 or 16 different ship/unit pictures in the Empire/Shipset Files?

First off I noticed a 1 image difference between the Ship Set, and Vehicle Main Textures bmp. What I wanted to know, are the sizes of the bmp's set in stone, what if we want to add more vehicle models to the shipset/empire? From viewing the Empire style example on MM, it doesnt appear so.

Ship Set--[Empire Name]_ShipSet.bmp--378x84(each picture is 42x42)

Vehicle Main Texture--[Empire Name]_Vehicle_Main_Texture.bmp--256x256 (each picture is 64x64)

Unit Combat Texture--[Empire Name]_Unit_Combat_Texture.bmp--256x256 (each picture is 128x128)

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Yes, they can.

All those files seem to be able to be lengthed in a manner similar to components.txt in SE4. That is, you can make them longer, but not wider.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can you target an incoming Beam or Bolt based weapon with an effect?

I was going through the data files, and I noticed that there was a listing of valid targets, like ship, or seeker for instance, but it also said beam and bolt.

What is the difference between Torpedo and Directed Torpedo?

From what I can tell it looks like Directed is seeking, and Torpedo is like direct fire.

Can Shields use supplies?

Do the Formations for the Fleets and Task Forces determine the max number of ships per fleet?

From looking at the formations data file, it shows one formation for fleet as a max of 40 ships, and one for task forces at 74. I was hoping that you could use this to possibly control the total size of any fleets being used.

With out Multiplex Tracking, Do all weapons that can fire from an individual ship fire at the target?

Wont this result in serious overkill of certain ships...?

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Re: Multiplex Tracking

I'm kind of wondering that too. In SEIV all direct fire shots were instant hit and your weapons fired in sequence, if weapon 4 (out of, say 10) was a kill, weapons 5 - 10 would find a new target. In SEV since combat is real-time, and most direct fire weapons actually have travel-time (the beams aren't so bad, but it's quite noticable with projectile weapons)..it looks to me like ships just completely unload at one ship after another, resulting in some amazing over-kills, unless you micro-manage your combat (ie. tell your ship to fire weapons 1-4 at ship A and weapons 5-10 at ship B, etc).

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

i think its all configurable in the stratigies. like this:

Targeting Priority 2 := Total Targeted Damage < 150% of Structure

and like this:

Target Type 1 Damage Amount := 100%

and you can configure strategies to be specific to the type of object being engaged. so you might choose to engage a carrier at a diferent range than a sphereworld. and that iss pretty snazzy.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Multiplex is basically infinite due to the real time nature.

You simply have to set your strategies to not fire overkill, so instead of 150%, ask for a much smaller percentage for targetting.

Your ships will still opportunity fire at non-priority stuff that comes into range.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Maybe I'm not understnding what you're saying (Suicide and Puke), but I think you're still going to get over-kill. For example, in my latest game I have a destroyer with unmounted lvl 100 meson blasters (5 of them) guarding a warp point. Those things do over 600 points of damage, one hit is all that's needed to kill any enemy ship, but if several ships come through the warp, my ship still fires all 5 at each ship, one after the other. That is VERY inefficient and (in theory) exposes my ship to much more harm than it should. I expect it works likes this:

.Target in range
.Weapon1 fires..projectile inbound
.Check target..no damage (projectile hasn't reached it yet)
.Weapon2 fires..projectile inbound
.Check target..no damage (projectile hasn't reached it yet)
.Repeat for weapon 3 to 5

I think the problem is the travel-time for projectiles. If they were instant hit it would be much better (in my opinion), because your ship could find a new target after each kill, instead of unloading all weapons at them, one at a time.

.Enemy ship in range..
.Weapon1 fires..enemy ship hit..enemy ship destroyed
.New target..enemy ship in range..
.Weapon2 fires...target hit..target destroyed
.And so on..

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Is there a way to reduce system size?

I already found in "settings.txt"
<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
System Width In Hexes := 26
System Height In Hexes := 20
</pre><hr />
Someone here suggested 20x15, but that crashes the demo. Even 24x18 looks oddly, as if some 'radius' or 'cropping range' is missing or too big - the systems start looking 'squared' at 24x18 again, the 'corners' too much filled up ..
Is it by chance "System Point Radius From Center := 410.0" .. dunno what to do with a point range here, though http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif


Is there a way to reduce the chance for nebula sectors?


Thanks!

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

To use 20x15 hexes, you need to edit the SystemTypes.txt file so that no items are placed beyond ring 7 - that is what causes the crash.

When changing the system size, multiple the radius by the factor you change the size by. For example, 20/26 is ~ 75%, so the radius should be 315 etc.

You'd need to edit QuadrantTypes.txt to reduce the occurence of nebulas.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

The way it should work is;
Target has X Hitpoints, figure in overkill %, figure in hit chance, etc. So, Y guns should be enough.

Weapon 1;
Fire on target

Weapon 2;
Fire on target

Weapon Y+1;
Too many guns targetted, skip.


If there are no other targets in range, the ship may just fire the rest because it can.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Hmm..I'll pay closer attention in my next set of combats.

"If there are no other targets in range, the ship may just fire the rest because it can. "

That I don't like. Just because there are no targets in range *now*, doesn't mean no targets will present themselves soon (ie before the wastefully discharged weapons can refire/reload). This could be a particularly bad thing for weapons with long reload times.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

In damagetypes.txt if you list multiple requirements how do you make them Req 1 OR Req 2 instead of Req 1 AND Req 2?

So if I set a damage type to destroy engines and weapons, will it destroy only components that are BOTH an engine and a weapon?

Is there no way to add a special damage type (i.e. deplete supplies) to an otherwise normal weapon?

The instructions imply that any weapon with a "Special" function skips the normal damage allocation process. I want a weapon that does both.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

@SJ

Ok, I think I see what you mean, I was just looking through settings.txt again and noticed:

Estimated Targeting Damage Percent for Torpedo Weapon := 50
Estimated Targeting Damage Percent for Directed Torpedo Weapon := 50
Estimated Targeting Damage Percent for Beam Weapon := 50
Estimated Targeting Damage Percent for Bolt Weapon := 50

I still think my second point is valid though..

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

How does the AI build its ships?

From what I've seen, the AI uses 'fixed' scripts instead of general algorithms and the component properties to build its ships:

If you change the "possible placements" from "Inner Hull, Outer Hull" to "Outer Hull, Outer Hull" (only "Outer Hull" is not accepted by the demo at least) for the basic scanner, the player can only place the scanner into outer hull sections.

The AI however does not use scanners at all in that case - looks like it has a 'build list' which does not order 'scanners' in general, but 'scanners in inner hull'.
Maybe this was bad luck, though - the designs I saw had completely filled outer hull on the upper deck, maybe the scanner came last and simply didn't fit :/

If the AI really uses those fixed lists, I wonder if its possible to do any *greater* mod at all ...

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

I do agree that strategies will need some more power.

The situation is much improved if weapon damage is relatively small and hitpoints are increased.
In GGmod, there are often lots of ships left crippled, and then cleaned up later by the eventual victor if no enemy reinforcements arrive.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

You're correct in noting that the AI design algorithm has fixed places (outer, inner) where they stick items.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

How exactly does scaling work? Setting "Starting Scales" in *_Ships_XFileClasses works as one would assume, but what does Base Model Radius mean? And Maximum Model Size in VehicleSizes? I swapped the numbers for frigate and (light) fighter, and got miniature frigates and gigantic fighters. But Baseships (at least) won't scale, no matter how low the MaxMdlSze. And frigate MaxMdlSze scaling also appeared to not work after I increased their Starting Scales to 1.00 (from 0.01... hehehe)

I was going to use scaling for additional ship sizes in my mod when no own models exist (such as the default shipsets), but is there really no other way then painfull modification of *_Ships_XFileClasses' for all shipsets?

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Can you change the range breaks

Instead of 10, 20, etc. Can it be 1, 2, 3, etc? Or something to that effect? How does it effect the combat model? Or is this all hard coded?

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

There are no range breaks; that's display-only..

Weapon damage is determined by a formula; as far as I can that uses the exact range the weapon is at, and doesn't break down by 10s. No idea how to change the display part though.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

But the display also shows the to hit modifers, and I would assume that is based on formulas as well, based on range and damage? Then the display would not show accurate info...

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

To-hit modifiers have their own line for a seperate formula. Range and damage get tossed into the same forumla. The display will always be in what it tells you- it just may not always give *useful* information (eg if all your weapons have a range between 1 and 10, only the very first box will be filled in..I think.)

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Grim... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/fear.gif

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

I don't know for sure if the display can be changed or not..

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Fields that can use formulas are labeled "Blah blah Formula".

This line details the "range blocks":
Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment := 10.0

If you were to change this to 1.0 and had a weapon go to 9 range, it would likely fill up the first row of range boxes (which would still read 10...90 since they are just a .bmp image).

There's a couple of ways to modify accuracy.

This line can change the rate that accuracy changes at range.
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 0 - ([%Range%] * 0.5)

The above example would have accuracy decrease at half the range. That is at 50 range, it would have -25% penalty.

Alternatively you can change this value:
Weapon Space To Hit Modifier Formula := 25.0

Which adds a blanket 25% to hit at all valid ranges.

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

This is good to know, and after looking at the data file, I noticed that what I was worried about actually has a Blah Blah Formula label...now the question is find the right formula, and syntax of formula to get what I want...

Basically I was looking for the Plasma Torpedo, from SE3, and Star Fleet Battles. The PT tracks like a seeker, and starts out with a set amount of damage, which decrease in range blocks the longer it takes to get to the target, but can be shot by beam weapons to decrease the damage it does. So basically the structure/HP of the seeker is equal to the current damage of the torpedo.

Weapon Space At Range Distance Increment := 10.0
Weapon Space Min Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Max Damage At Range := 0.0
Weapon Space Min Damage Modifier Formula
Weapon Space Max Damage Modifier Formula
Weapon Seeker Tonnage Structure Formula
Weapon Seeker Defense Modifier Formula

I figure between all of these I can mod it to get what I want...just have to figure out how...

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Everything except the last part is doable.

I'm not entirely sure if you can tie the fields together like that..

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

In SE2 seekers by default lost damage potential as they were damaged... I wonder why Aaron took that out http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Modding SEV Thread Questions
 

Sorry to stretch the thread topic... but has anyone had any luck with planet textures? (in the models directory)
I've made several of them (256x256 24bit bmps) but for some reason they all crash the game when the minimap is used to switch to a system containing the new planet texture. I can't tell if I have the format wrong, if this is bug related, or if there is some tricky requirement for the texture designs.