Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Naysayers need not reply.

But is anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW? I am told that the final version of Gold and the new Deluxe are compatible. I'm using 1.95 Deluxe myself (patch available at www.malfador.com). It's worth noting that these patches will work on any version of SE4. I personally re-installed SE4 Classic v1.0 and patched it up to v1.95 Deluxe for free http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

In general terms, I'm thinking

***************
4-6 players
small mid-life galaxy
all warp points connected
all player planets same size
random events OFF
tech cost medium
medium start resources
planet value GOOD
1 planet
evenly distributed
view own score only
tech level low
2000 race points
NO computer players

Allow gifts/tributes
Allow technology gifts/tributes
Allow intel projects
******************************

Again, if all you have to offer is negativism, please don't reply here.

OTOH, if you have legitimate helpful input, (e.g. "Possum, don't use the x setting, or it will cause y problem"), delighted to hear from you, even if you're not interested in playing http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

You should consider using PvK Balance Mod to eliminate the racial point cost nerfing. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Please explain "racial point cost nerfing" ?

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

It's a reference to the unbalanced costs for various racial traits and aptitudes in SE:IV, which the PvK Balance Mod addresses. You really only need the players to use the mod to make their empire files and not run the game under it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Intel is also a bad idea in general.

The two possible results of intel on; nothing happens because everybody has a handful of points going to CI3, or somebody gets completely demolished because they failed to research intel early enough.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

A personal opinion:
I like the layouts of naturally connected galaxies better than the forced connection...

Try turning off "all wp connected", and then repeatedly re-generating the map until all the warppoints end up connected by chance.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Hmm. I haven't played a PBW game in a long time (having gotten tired of losing), but since I can't try the SE V demo (computer too old to run it), this is kind of tempting. You haven't mentioned whether surrender is allowed or forbidden.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

SJ, I totally hear what you mean. Forcing the connections gives too damn many connections. But if I do as you suggest, I'd be cheating! Think about it. *I* would know what the map looked like, and nobody else would.

capnq, I'm actually open to ideas from anybody who wants to play http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

*I* haven't played a game at PBW since that abortive tournament, ohh, about 3 years ago?

And you have my sympathies as far as the box. I'm too (expletive) broke to pay attention right now, and no way can I afford a new 'puter.

Anyhoo, let's see if we can round up a couple more players, eh?

Oh, and do you favor allowing surrender or disfavor it?

You know, the last time I asked here about "How are the games at PBW?", I was told that it had degenerated into a contest of diplomacy, with everybody trying to backstab everybody else.

I have to say I find that somewhat unsavory. While I have sure backstabbed AI allies in a single-player game, I have never betrayed an ally in a multi-player game of SE, or even any game like it.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Disallow surrender. Gifting all your stuff away counts too.

As far as the map, just ask anybody else to make the map for you.
Give me the settings you want, and I could post one with a minute or two of work.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Disallowing surrender would be fine with me.

Trying to put restrictions on gifts can get slippery. Harking back to that tourney again, I was the strongest player, allied with the #4 player, against an alliance of the #2 and #3 players. I had to use some major gifting to keep my ally in the game. I sent him resources, and I sent him ships and I sent him tech. I even gave him two planets. But it seemed well worth the investment to me, as it kept him in the game, and covered my whole south-western flank.

Are you objecting to this sort of thing, or just the use of massive gifting prior to quitting the game? If the latter, how do you word an agreement to allow the former, yet prohibit the latter?

Sigh, this is exactly the sort of rules-lawyering that turned me off of SE4 MP http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Gifting everything works the same as a surrender. The difference between gifting a couple planets and surrendering should be obvious to all involved.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

If there were any AIs in the game, I'd lean towards allowing surrender, but with no AIs, I don't have a preference. Some people have much stronger opinions on the issue, which is why I brought it up.

About the only set-up option I have a strong preference on is Limited Resources, which I absolutely hate.

I've occaisionally backstabbed allies, but I've been backstabbed more often. It depends a lot on how I'm roleplaying an unreliable race. My strongest finish in a PBW game was 3rd place out of 8 humans and 4 AIs; I got there by a lot of diplomatic juggling and a bit of vulching the wreckage from other players' wars.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Hmm, well, I'm game, capnq, but so far you're the only respondee with an interest in playing.

I'd really like to have at least 4 people, wouldn't you?

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Not afraid of things that go BUMP in the night!

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Yes, more players would be better. I've never played a PBW game with fewer than four.

Perhaps the problem is that the proposal uses stock? I remember having trouble in the past finding games that weren't using some mod. Most of the mods I have installed are ones that I needed to troubleshoot a problem as a PBW admin.

I will have to think a bit before I propose a particular mod. Maybe someone else has a suggestion.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

How about just the balance mods?

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Are you interested in playing, narf?

I don't object too much to balance type mods, I just don't want to play something all wacky like giant space beagles.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Nah, got too much already. Thanks anyway.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Which one?

Checking PBW, I see PvK's Balance Mod v1.1, CivLand Light Mod v1.041, and Dark Nova 4 v4.22 are already set up for v1.94 (which is functionally equivalent to v1.95 to PBW). Any other balance mod would need to be installed on PBW first, which could delay starting the game.

Geo's Balanced System Mod v2.0 only needs to be on the map creator's computer, but I'd prefer not to use that. Exploring the map is one of my favorite parts of the game, and having every system contain the same mix of planets sounds dull. Besides, I need whatever benefits I can get from a lucky draw. :-)

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Dark Nova isn't a balance mod, FYI. It adds quite a bit.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I dunno. I was just suggesting.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

"Wise men to argue and refute abound,
but a man to execute, is less often to be found."

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

hmm maybe need to see how a couple of unstarted games pan out. one is winding. one gme is gaming but being dragged out by some players till just before timer times out, wouldn't be except its 84 hr turns. (ie manually uploads turn is last player, but doesn't upload next turn till just before next turn date)
as for back stabbing allies, I always assume the worst when comms go silent.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I havn't played any balance mods. Except by possible inclusion in other mods.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I just searched PBW's File Library SEIV Mods page for mods with the word "balance" in their description, then looked at the Create Game page to see what was already installed on PBW.

DN4 is actually the only mod I mentioned that I already have installed. I think it's coming out with a new version in the near future.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

ToddT has indirectly brought up another consideration, turn duration. I'm content with 24hr turns, but some prefer 48-72hrs. I think the ideal is starting the game at 24, then increasing if needed as the game develops.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Whatever, I'm comfy with anything reasonable as far as turn length.

As far as games in progress, there's nothing open as far as new games that isn't 6 months old and manifestly dead.

And I flat refuse to replace someone else in a game in progress.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I tried that once, didn't like it. The game had progressed far enough that all of the empire's explored space was fully colonized, and further exploration proved the empire was surrounded by similarly developed empires. It was quite frustrating, becaus exploring is my favorite of the 4 X's.

It was hard to tell how the original player intended to play the race that he'd created, as well.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I hear that, capnq. I don't know why, but early-game is always more exciting to me than mid-game or end-game.

Although I must admit end-game does have some fun points. One can finally execute those massive civil-engineering projects http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Last call?

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Someone else has set up a new game on PBW called "Nivek's First PBW". The settings don't quite match what we've posted here, but I don't see any deal breakers for me. He has two players so far.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

what the hell, why not? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

OK, I've applied to join that Nivek's game, capnq

You're right, he does have some damned odd options set, but as I said above, what the hell http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

<tongue-in-cheek>
Let all beware, the direct lineal descendants of the dreaded Poo-Flinging Monkeys have returned!
</tongue-in-cheek>

Oh yes, and let's all remember! F11, Ministers, scroll to bottom and select the option "AI should not make changes to the empire during a Simultaneous Game."

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

agrreement...me too...muzt prractize mi-go aczent...

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

mi-go? is this a movie reference? I live in a cave...

Let's hope this Nivek guy is on the ball with getting things going, eh?

This is going to be a wild & wooly game, with Neutrals and AI empires, plus home planets NOT the same size, all warp points NOT connected, and warp points anywhere in the system. All I can say is, I'm going to try very hard to keep a good sense of humor about things, and not take it at all seriously http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

And may the best monkey win! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Literary, not film. The Fungi from Yuggoth, from H.P. Lovecraft's "The Whisperer in Darkness".

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Aha!~ You know, I've never read much Lovecraft. I tend to think of him as a "horror" author, and I do not care for that genre at all.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Lovecraft is a different "flavor" of horror, very psychological and introspective, with very little gore, but his 1920's attitudes toward race turn some people off. It helps to have an unabridged dictionary at hand to look up some of the vocabulary he uses.

Nivek's game has a fifth player pending join.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Hehe, 1920's attitudes toward race. Have you ever read Huckleberry Finn?

You know, that is actually a two-edged sword. On the one hand, when reading old authors their racist attitudes sometimes grate on our modern sensibilities. On the other hand, because they were so utterly indifferent to modern sensibilities, older authors were free to make observations that no modern author would dare.

As a case in point, back in the late 80's, I was doing some serious research on the punic wars. One of the best authors on the subject did his work in the 1930's. As part of his introduction to the subject of the punic wars, the author did some exploration of the ethnic origins of the carthaginians, tracing them back to the "proto-semitic" ethnic group which also gave rise to the ancient hebrews (and many of their most bitter enemies). Some of his observations would simply not have been comfortable to modern academia, lest they be misconstrued as anti-semitic.

A fifth player, you say?

/me rubs hands together and cackles in evil laughter

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

No, I haven't. Checking his bibliography, it looks like the only Twain I've read is _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_.

There are too many "classics" to read more than a fraction of them. I've been buying omnibuses from the Science Fiction Book Club faster than I can read them.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

That's a big, big 10-4, good buddy.

And some of that so-called classic stuff is trash, too.

I plowed through all 1300+ pages of War & Peace, thinking "We must be getting to the good part soon, the part that made Tolstoy famous, right?"

Nope, the whole book was utter crap. Nothing but the clumsy machinations of a bunch of arrogant, selfish, small-minded aristocrats, and Tolstoy raving on about his laughably ridiculous theories of socio-military dynamics.

I think part of what made it so awful was the utter dearth of any sympathetic characters. My profoundly egalitarian sensibilities made the main characters all objects of scorn for me. Frankly, I felt they deserved the misfortunes that befell them.

OTOH, Silas Marner (of all unlikely things!), which we read in high school, was an absolute gem. Obscure as it may be among those books reckoned "classics", I enjoyed it enormously.

Almost anything by Charles Dickens is well worth the reader's time.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Cap, I am requesting a re-start.

There are non-stock AI empires, in what's supposed to be a totally stock game, and I drew two of them in my starting sectors.

Please see posts in the game forum http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Yeah, I know. I have PBW set as my homepage, so I check those forums far more often than these.

The restart improved my initial position, but put one of the neutrals in my home system. I don't think I've ever played a game with "can start in same system" set before.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Neutral in home system + troops = free second homeworld. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif Though one system over would have been best.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

Yeah, what Phoenix said. You got lucky http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

That's why I usually play with no AI empires or neuts when I play MP.

Re: Anybody up for a game of stock SE4 at PBW?
 

I once played a PBW game in "team mode", with the victory condition being to eliminate all the AIs. IIRC, it was 8 human and 8 AIs (no neutrals). Expecting to be constantly at war, a couple of us took Bloodthirsty as our happiness type. That turned out to be a mistake, because the random placement of homeworlds put all but one human on one half of the map and all but two of the AIs in the opposite half. (i.e. the setup came out [1 human + 6 AIs | 7 humans + 2 AIs]) I had treaties with 4 humans before I even met an AI, and often had to delay new treaties until I'd quelled the unrest from the last one.

If you ever play team mode multiplayer, I recommend at least 2-3 AIs per human. Preset starting systems is a good idea, too.