Idea: Underground provinces
 

I wonder if it would be possible to add an Underground terrain type for maps with some sort of underworld provinces? This terrain type would always have Darkness in it. Poptypes could include Pale Ones, Shades and perhaps even new stuff like Olms or fungi creatures if IW would bother. Or maybe there wouldn't be poptypes but people making underground maps should take care of it themself.

All IW would need to do is the add an Underground terraintype, make a battle background for it (and perhaps a submerged undergound background too) and make it have Darkness on when battles are fough there.

I would really, really like to see this, as I have an idea for mod that would take largely place undergound. It would have fancy stuff like Olms, bat people and ctulhoid fungi in it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Maybe a second layer of map with entrances and exits?

Alternatively, the Air nations could have an "air map" above the world...

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Indeed, but that would require rather profound changes to the game. Maybe in Dom 4.

It's easier just to add a new terrain type. I'm asking this not only because of my own interest but also because I remember that there has been some "underworld" maps.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

not to pour cold water on your idea, but an 'underground' terrain type really doesn't make sense, considering that the map is a bird's eye view of the land. Looking down from above you wouldn't see 'underground', you'd see whatever is over top of the underground (i.e. fields, mountains, forests, etc.)

With that said, I *believe* that Agartha's cities are 'cave cities' wherein it is always dark etc. - the idea being that they are, in fact, in great caves (i.e. underground). I see no reason (in theory) why you couldn't have an independant cave city, complete with underground-dwelling creatures, but that would be in a province that had some kind of surface to it (forest, mountain, etc.)

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

I know, but there are maps that have had "Underworld" layer or rather part of the map made to represent underground areas. Such as Hollow world and the map that had Surface World, Underground and Stygian Abyss.

Thumbnail of the Hollow World map for Dominions.

http://www.illwinter.com/dom/hollow_mini.jpg

Do you get what I mean now?

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

The visual image of the map is not what decides neighbors, but the actual #neighbor commands in the map file. So you can have multiple layers, and special connections (caves, teleports, chutes and ladders) between the layers.

Ive seen some creative maps doing things like this. Check out the Dom2 Maps page at Illwinter.com and look for the maps done by Andrew J. Osborn. He did some great examples of what can be done with this idea.

Gandalf Parker

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

This would be a good addition I think, and it need not interfere with the 2-D nature of the maps. For example, there are impassable mountains which cannot be crossed or inhabited, but perhaps there can be a province underneath which is a path under. Impassable mountains don't need to be just a border feature, but can be a province with an underground instead.

There is also no restriction on making the province boundaries visible or cover 100% of the visible map. I can imagine a lake province connecting two other bodies of water, and also an underground cavern connecting the two land masses underneath the water, so the only trick would be how to display it on the 2-D map view and make it clear with neighbors, etc.

Sill

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Yes, I know it works like that but the underground provinces will have to use some of the surface world terrain, and that can be very silly. What I am suggesting is an Underground terrain type that could be used in such situations. Yes, the game is top down, yes it's the neighbour connections that matter etc.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Yup. You can have a world map that lets you go straight from Norway to Taiwan, to put it that way.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

yeah i think it's fine to have multiple layers - I've played on the map you show before, and it's a fine idea. But having 'underground' as a terrain type without it being on a separate layer of all underground provinces wouldn't make much sense.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Why not? Does it make more sense that provinces supposed represent subterranean ares are Waste or Swamp or Plains or such?

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Well, Waste would probably be rather appropriate for underground provinces - but I'd think you'd rather have an underground _flag_, so you could have underground wastes, underground farmland, etc. Something that modifies the base type, rather as the game already handles coastal provinces.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Mmmm, I suppose that could work.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

It doesn't exist, but I like the idea myself. It can't be easily integrated into random maps, though, but it could work in player-made maps with some creative drawing.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Indeed, custom maps was what I was thinking. I for one promise that I would try to put it into best possible use if it is allowed.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

I would use it as well if it were available...

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

You could have heaven and hell team games.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Yeah, that too. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

You could duplicate a small map 3 times and stack them on one image. Then run two thru a global effect. Such as making the upper map lighter colored across the whole thing, and the lowest own darkened. And you could easily make changes to them both but Im not sure what would allow for a fair game. Maybe make the lower realm higher in resources, the middle one higher in population, and the higher realm higher in magic sites. If you made everyone start in the middle realm then it shouldnt be imbalancing

If the map you started with was numbered exactly even such as 1-100 provinces then could renumber easily by making them 101-200 and 201-300 and hopefully the game will keep them lined up that way. Then all you would have to do is work out the locations to link in order to get from one map to the other. (or make everyone rush for transport spells)

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Hell... terrain that requires heat and/or fire protection 100 to enter?

Heaven... terrain requiring flight and/or etherealness?

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Well, I remember IW adding an Inferno battle background. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

There's also Hel. It's in Helheim.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Yeah but Hel's a pretty cold place ainnit?

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

There is cold hell called Cocytos.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

The 9th layer of it where traitors are forever frozen in ice.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Of course, some of the mightiest heroes might be able to escape even from there.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

More like mightiest traitors. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Yeah, I think this is a good idea. I know there haven't been any official maps that have sported underground layers, but there could be in the future. The terrain would simply be called "subterranean". I would think it would have the lowest inherent wealth and production bonuses, but would have a very high chance of things like gem mines, gold mines and iron mines. The only complication I can think of is that there would likely be many magic sites that currently have terrain type "any" that would not make sense being underground. You'd probably have to add a whole new property to magic sites called "terrain restricted" just because of this.

=$= Big J Money =$=

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

True, but perhaps IW doesn't have to go so far in the first phase.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

Diplomatic AI is still too weak for them (mightiest traitors) to be recognized, so I doubt it's modeled.

edit: choice of words

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

It's already that way.

Re: Idea: Underground provinces
 

I think he meant something the lines of "sites without restrictions won't appear on #underground unless specified to be an #underground site".