Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

My entire post might be unnecessary if the new nation modding and slots resolve these issues.

I was killing time tonight and trying not to stare at my empty mailbox while waiting for my Dom3 package to arrive, when I decided to download a pile of Dom2 nation mods and try them out. As I was browsing the mod files figuring out which nations they replaced and such I decided to see how hard it would be to make some modifications so that I could play a game with multiple new nations.

The first potential conflict I noticed was weapon and armor numbers. Hmmm. Well, in the classic RTS Total Annihilation, I know a guy that resolved id conflicts for tons of individual new units and weapons and combined them into a single massive super mod. I played with it as much or more than I did the original game.

A few of the existing Dom2 nation mods were very considerate and listed what weapon, armor and unit numbers they used/modified. Sadly, this appears to be a minority.

Given more time, I would just write a simple program to read the files for me. Who knows, maybe someday. Anyhow, I thought I would start a thread where experienced modders and players could post some suggestions to give the up and coming nation mods a better chance of playing nice together. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

My short list of suggestions:

1. List number ranges replaced for weapons, armor & units.

2. Keep the name of the support directory/folder the same as the dm file name. (I like to keep my mod folder as neat as possible.)

Suggestions to add to this list are encouraged. I will happily update this post.

btw: Thanks for the great Dom2 nation mods and I am looking forward to the Dom3 mods as well! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Ananasi mod uses monster numbers: 2991 and 2992. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Some work will be required to make the old DomII mods work again. Re-numbering the units, perhaps weapons, putting them into one of the empty slots, etc. I wonder if I could still remember enough Java to update my Mod Converter to do the last one, at least... Hmm.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Since it'll soon be hard to keep track of all the mods posted on the forum, I'm maintaining a summary at www.freewebs.com/singularity24601/index.htm (hope that wasn't against forum rules). Let me know of any errors, change requests, etc. Later, I hope to include monster numbers, weapon numbers, etc.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Singularity24601 actually that was changed during the creation of the mod "think Dark Eldar with Chaos corruption" http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif.

Blood Elves:
-Nation 70
-Units 2100-2126
-Weapons 680-689
-Armor 260-264
-New Sites 760-761

Trade Confederation:
-Nation 71
-Units 2150-2173
-Weapons 700-703
-Armor 270-274
-Sites 765-766

Stigian Corruption:
-Nation 72
-Units 2205-2233
-Weapons 714-720
-Armor 281-286
-Sites 767-768

Angelic Crusade:
-Nation 72
-Units 2305-2333
-Weapons 725-732
-Armor 287
-Sites 769

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Machaka Spider cult
-nation 68
-units 2650-2668 (...2675 as I'm going to add heroes)
-sites 800-801
-no weapon no armor

High Guild
- units 2980-2985

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Actually, this is a good time to bring this up - since I used to recover old code (in an academic context, not professionally), it'd be pretty easy for me to fix everyone's mods so that they run together by renumbering stuff.

I wasn't going to do this until it became feasible to add nations without replacing existing nations at all - the Mod I've been working on has to remove mid-period Ermor, which is my favorite position.

Anyway, I was going to (with the permission of the other modders) produce a single "Seven Nation Army" mod, with every expansion nation included at once, along with more spells, more sites and more independent units. If there were numbering collisions (as inevitably there would be) I'd just fix them.

Do people think this is a good idea or no?

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

What I think would be a good idea is to have a separate mod file for each of the three eras. You load up the era mod and it throws in all the mod nations for that era. Right now, the only way that a nation can get National spells is to plunder an existing nation - if the nations in question were always robbed from a different era you might not notice.

So the "Early Mod" would torch a bunch of late and mid-era nations and give out fully functional early positions. The "Late Mod" would plunder middle and early positions to get appropriate nations in the late period.

Since you select your mods and your era before you even see the nations, it wouldn't cause any hardship.

-Frank

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

<list updated>

Although I can find the modding numbers myself, I'm rather busy at the moment, so thanks Amos and Twan (and therefore, the critical thing is that I be kept aware of new versions).

I'm sure the current nation slots won't be enough for all of us, so eventually, either users will need to know how to edit slots, or modders will need to distribute multiple versions of their mod for different slots, allowing for various combinations.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

I´m using monster numbers 2800+ for my new worthy heroes mod. I guess I will end up with ~30 new heroes.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Ballbarian, stop reading my mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Actually, soon we will need a way to easily access what nation, weapon, monster, etc. numbers are used so that moders can be sure their mod won't be conflicting with another.

Personally I was thinking of making a sticky thread where everyone would post numbers they used in their mod. It should make Singularities job easier too (big thanks from me for that effort!).

If anyone has better idea or objection, speak up. I'll probably wait a day or two before I make that thread.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Maybe we could set a system where the unit numbers coincide with the nation number. So nation 72 would use 7200-7299.

It would make it easy to keep track of, not have to look it up all the time, and easy to automate renumbering mods if needed.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Good idea. And perhaps have a summary table as the top post (URL or a regularly updated attachment might be better) for easy access?

<table updated>

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Sar Elad as of version 0.9:
Nation number: 68
Units and commanders: 2998 to 2975
Weapons: 998 to 996, will most likely change in future
Armor: None at the moment but will change
Site numbers: 780 and 781

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

Does anyone know what the maximum value for a nation ID or unit ID is? (nation #)*100 ought to work, but I believe that there are 256 nation slots and if there are less than 25,000 unit ID available.....

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

2998 is the max number of Unit IDs.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

We can ask that to be upped. I got 5 max settings upped already.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

An Allowgod command for nations would help a lot. Theiskyra is using 10 unitIDs for units, 10 unit IDs for commanders, 4 unit IDs for national heroes, and seventeen unit IDs for allowed pretenders. We could have almost twice as many mod nations if we could allow and disallow gods from the nation script rather than from the unit script like we have now.

Also, Themiskyra has available male gods because some of the "defaults" are male. That's dumb.

-Frank

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

I list all the numbers I use in the readme's for my mods. For a general reference I am using the following:

Nation Numbers 70-72 (at least)
Monster Numbers 2500-2580 (at least)
Armor Numbers 300-315 (at least)
Weapon Numbers 800-820 (at least)
Site Numbers 800-815 (at least)

Those spans account for my three nation mods (Teutanion, Sanguinia, and the forthcoming Sylvania). I'm all for the "Seven Nation Army" idea put forward here and in another thread. It will make it easier to play with ALL player-created nations at once, but they will still be available for individuals to pick and choose if they wish.

Re: Suggestion for Nation Modders...
 

If you've got the influence, pleease try to up the number of hero slots (eg, 10 each) (and a way to give them all unique names), as heroes can really exemplify the character of a nation. =p