Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I thought I'd share what I've written so far with you. Comments and critique are welcome.

Agartha

A subterranean nation of pale one-eyed giants who can breathe in water. Agartha offers a mix of powerful and advantages and severe disadvantages. You must play into their strengths and reduce their weaknesses to win.

Pros of Agartha
- The Pale Ones are strong and are superb in sieges. They utterly smash castles, quite possible speeding the game a fair bit.
- Pale Ones can be dangerous to an early supercombatant thanks to their strenght. Seal Guards have magic weapons.
- Pale Ones are amphibious. You can compete for the control of the seas!
- Troglodytes have Trample and can be very useful shock troops against infantry and units that are smaller than them
- Strong Earth magic
- Starts with a magic site that can be used for Scrying
- The Oracles are great battlemages
- Pale Ones Need Not Eat and you don't have to worry about supplies, and you can take Death-3 except in very long games

Cons of Agartha
- Weakness to missile attacks
- Pale Ones are bigger than humans and be ganged by smaller units
- Pale Ones are coldblooded and suffer from Cold scale
- Only one eye - Vision's Foe, Eye Shield or just plain unlucky Lost One Eye affliction makes an Agarthan unit essentially useless
- Poor Precision, Attack and Defence skill
- Earth Readers are your only not capital only mages


Agarthan Units

Pale One Militia:

These are your militia units and they are generaly speaking not worth buying. They are only 7 gold and 2 resources and come with all the Pale One bonuses so they can be situationaly useful. But they have pitiful attack and defence.

Wet One:

A step up from the Militia, these Pale Ones tote a spear and are marginaly better than militia. Not worth it.

Pale One:

Armed with a Shield and a Spear, these units have a bit higher Defence than many of your units but are weak against missile attacks. Only worth buying at first turn if you are hard pressed to get more for more units for cheap.

Pale One Warrior (1):

A Pale One with Bronze Scale Cuirass, a Spear and a Shield these units are good buy for the first few turns since they only cost 11 resources. They will most likely be the "bread-and-butter" unit of your armies since they are very affordable. They are somewhat vulnerable to missile attacks and have no helmets and are thus vulnerable to hits to head.

Pale One Warrior (2):

Similiar to the previous Pale One Warrior but he has a Bronze Cap that protects his head and he has higher protection than his less protected colleague.

Good unit, but 19 resources might be a tiny bit too steep for the very start. After you conquer some neighbouring provinces you should have enough resource to buy these in mass.

Or if you took Productivity you can propably afford them from the start. If you have problems with resources you should just buy Pale One Warriors without the caps.

Cavern Guard:

Similiar to Pale One Warrior (2), but instead of the Spear and Buckler combo he has a high damage Glaive and a small number of these could take down even a bit more thuggy creature...if they can hit as they have poor Attack. They are more expensive and resource intensive than Pale One Warriors but have a bit more HP and better Morale.

Troglodyte:

These large monstrosities are not Pale Ones but instead creatures that look like massive rat humanoids with no head and some spikes popping out of them. They are somewhat expensive in money (50 Gold) but very cheap in resources.

They are Size 4 creatures and the main attraction of these units is that they can Trample. Trampling is a an attack that allows the unit to do armour piercing damage to a large number of targets and it actually moves the unit inside the enemy fromation.

Downside is that Trampling units get fatigued in prolonged charges and are vulnerable to being ganged on. Same applies for Troglodytes, and it takes some skill to use them. But when used correctly they can be very destructive. Place them on the flanks of your armies and set them to Attack Rear.

Ancient Stone Hurler 1 & 2:

Practicaly the same unit with the difference being that one of them has a bronze scale cuirass and the other doesn't. Thus the other is a bit more protected and resource intensive, though 11 resources isn't bad.

The unarmored one costs 1 resources however and has the same weapons, a Boulder and his Fist. The Boulder is a ranged weapon with 8 base damage and the strength of the Stone Hurler also aplies, meaning that the Boulder does 28 points of damage which is enough to possibly kill everything that doesn't have great HP, Protection or both if it hits.

They have poor precision though and the range of the Boulder is very short. Stone Hurlers are Sacred, so you'll pay less upkeep for them and you can Bless them.

Ancient One:

The Ancient Ones are huge, Sacred Pale Ones. They have equipment similiar to Pale One Warrior (2) and in fact cost the same amount of resources but 40 Gold. They have 9 Attack and 10 Defence which are better than most Agarthans get.

If you're not having problems with Gold these are worth buying. Be careful that Ancient Ones are very large and can get easily ganged on by smaller creatures. Since they are Sacred you can Bless them.

Seal Guard:

The elite, Capital Only warrior armed with a magical Obsidian Glaive that has the superb damage of 11. The Seal Guards are large and Sacred.

They also cost 55 Gold and 37 resources and it's quite likely you will have troubles fielding large amounts of these units.

Most useful for dealing with large, tough enemies as their weapons do high damage and the Seal Guards have Attack of 10 which allows them to hit more reliably than other Agarthan units. Their usefulness also depends on what starting magics you took.

National Summons:

Magma Child (Rhuax Pact):

The Magma Children are summoned with the Conj 3 1E 1F spell "Rhuax Pact". The spell summons five of Magma Children for 2 Fire gems. Magma Children are great for that price. They are not only immune to fire and poison but they also get a Fire Shield that deals 8 points of armour piercing fire damage to an enemy that hits them. Their Flame Strike attack does damage that is equal to their Strenght (12), as area of effect of one square and does armor piercing fire damage. Magma Children live off on magic energies and Need Not Eat.

Their stats, defence excluded, are superior to a normal human troop and even if they are numericaly less strong than a Pale One they are very powerful for their cost and level and they can be easily massed. Thanks to their Flame Strike and Fireshield they have no problems with mobs and will incinerate their way through ranks of weaker units and and even some stronger non-fire resistant troops will fall to them if surrounded by Magma Children.

The Magma Children are indeed powerful, but they have low protection, they are magic beings that need to be commanded by mages, are Mindless and will die without a mage commanding them in battle and they radiate intense heat which is a double edged sword. The heat fatigues and occasionaly sets non-fire resistant units and this includes your Pale Ones and even Earth Elementals can catch fire from them!

The lack of synergy between Magma Children and rest of your units is a bit of a problem. They are also useless against fire immune units and much weaker against fire resistant ones. They are vulnerable to arrows, so getting something to be used as arrow pinchusion could be good. Placing them into flanks of your armies away from your other troops, putting them into front and rest of your units way back or using taskforces made only from them works the best.

Earth Elemental (Barathrus Pact):

The 2 Earth spell "Barathrus Pact" found on Conjuration 3 summons a Size 4 Earth Elemental to serve you. The Elemental is quite the bargain for two gems as it is immune to Poison, can Trample, Regenerates 4HP per battle turn and is hard to kill because they first shrink in size and power and then die. They are Inanimate and thus immune to some spells and they don't need to eat either.

Earth Elemental has 38 HP, 18 Strenght and 15 Magic Resistance. They have great Strenght, but their weapon is the poor Fist. They also have the curiosly low Protection of 8.

Earth Elementals are Tramplers, pure and simple. They are tougher than Troglodytes and can also double as arrow pincushions but they have troubles with opponents of their own size. They also have no elemental resistances, so you should be careful if your enemy has powerful elemental magics. Earth Elementals are Mindless and Magic Beings and have all of their drawbacks.

Umbral (not avaitable in demo)

Agarthan Commanders:

Pale One Scout:

This is your Scout commander and he has all the advantages and disadvantages of a Pale One. Scouts are very useful, but generaly speaking you are better off finding an independent province with Scouts and then recruit there.

Pale One Commander:

This is your basic commander with Leadership rating of 40. Ancient Lords have more Leadership and Oracles have the same or a tiny bit more. Unless you're in trouble with money and you need to haul lots of troops around you are better off buying something else than these.

Troglodyte Lord:

A cool looking commander who isn't much of a commander but a recruitable thug chassis. 90 Gold and 1 Resources is not a high price, but the Troglodyte Lord can only command 10 troops. He can Trample like all Troglodytes and if you deck him with some magic items he could be used as a trampling thug, but it's risky. His Attack skill is 13 and this can be further boosted with some fire items Agartha can easily produce. A Troglodyte Lord with a Fire Pearl and a Sword of Sharpness can do massive damage on creatures that are of his size or larger.

Ancient Lord:

Ancient Lord is an ancient Agarthan Commander. He has no priestly skill but can be blessed. He can command 80 units and he has some thug potential, being Sacred and having high HP and strength. His Attack and Defence need some work though.

Earth Reader:

Your only mage that isn't restricted to your capital, the Earth Reader has 1 Holy, 1 Earth and 1 random pick of either Earth, Fire, Water or Death.

The Earth Readers won't inspire much passions at first look but they have their uses. First of all they are the most efficient mages to cast your national spells.

Earth Readers with 1 Fire can cast Magma Bolts and the wonderful Rhuax Pact ritual.

Earth Readers with 2 Earth can cast Summon Earthpower and then use Blade Wind which is a terrifyingly powerful spell in the Early Age. They can also Summon Cave Drakes and do the Barathrus Pact.

Earth Readers with one Water pick have rather limited usefulnes in demo, but in full version they could forge some useful items and cast Frozen Heart.

In demo they can, well, er, cast Claymen. And Slime, which can bog down an unit's Defence to levels where your units can hit them.

Death Earth Readers can cast Dark Knowledge and use Raise Skeletons in a battle if given some Death gems or an item that boosts their Death magic.

They are a quite useful mage for 120 Gold and they are also Sacred.

Oracle of the Subterranean Waters:

A member of one of the three orders of the Oracles, the Oracle of Subterranean Waters has 3 Earth, 1 Water, 3 Holy and 1 random that is either Water or Earth and 10% chance to get additional Water or Earth. All Oracles can cast Smite which allows them to be combat casters with 0 points of research done.

All Oracles also have acces to Blade Wind which is a superb spell and which is easily powered up further by Summon Earthpower.

In full version Oracles with high Earth picks are mostly just more powerful Blade Winders, but in full version they can use a lot of powerful spells with minimal effort. Oracles are also very thuggy and won't die easily, and they can use the various Earth protection spells such as Ironskin and Stoneskin, but remember that these spells will also give you a weakness.

The Oracle of Sub. Waters has limited usefulnes in the demo because you can't research to Construction 6 which would allow them to forge Water Bracelets and thus easily boost themselves to 2/3 Water. In Demo they are mostly restricted to being Claymen summoners, Rust Mist casters and the 2W ones can use some spells and summons that will speed your conquest of the seas.

You don't start with any Water gem income so find them if you are interested in useing Oracles of Subterranean Waters to their full power.

The Oracles of Sub. Waters are Capital Only and Sacred.

Oracle of the Subterranean Fires:

A Fire variety of the Oracles, the Oracles of Sub. Fires start with 3 Earth 3 Holy 1 Fire and have 1 random that is either 1 Fire or Earth and they have a 10% chance to have yet another pick of Fire or Earth.

Like with all things, their usefulnes is a bit restricted in the demo because you cannot cast Magma Eruption which is often the main attraction of Fire/Earth mages. You can use Magma Bolts though, but you are most likely better of shooting Blade Wind and using other Oracle tactics.

You could use them as Earth-focused mages because Fire is hard to boost with items but Earth has the Earth Boots that can be forged easily.

Or then you could use them as thugs since they can cast Fire Shield and the various protection spells from Earth. They are Capital Only and Sacred.

Oracle of the Dead

A Death variety of the Oracles, the Oracles of the Dead start with 3 Earth 3 Holy 1 Death and have 1 random that is either 1 Death or Earth and they have a 10% chance to have yet another pick of Death or Earth.

Oracles of the Dead can cast Blight, which is a nasty little spell for harassing the enemy, but not very damaging. In combat Oracles of the Dead with 2 Death can cast Raise Skeleton. "Skellyspamming" is a time honoured traditional tactic.

Forging a Skull Staff would allow you to boost their Death to 3 or 4 if you ever live to see an Oracle of the Dead who comes with 3 Death magic from the start. They can also cast Reanimation and the 2 Death ones can use some other undead summoning spells. They are Capital Only and Sacred.

Some Strategies and Tactics for Agartha

Bless Benefits:

The large Agarthans benefit from the following Blesses:

Air: Your Sacred units are vulnerable to missiles and an Air Blessing can remedy this situation.

Fire: The Agarthans have low Attack and Fire Blessing will help with this situation. A Fire 9 could be a tempting strategy, but Fire 9 blessing is best suited for units that get multiple attack per turn which Agarthans don't. Some extreme people will propably try Fire 9/Water 9 bless with Agartha.

Earth: Earth Bless gives your sacred units Reinvigoration when blessed. This is helpful for your priest-mages.

Water: Agarthans have low Defence and Water Blessing help with it. Water 9 gives Quickness to your sacred unit when blessed, allowing them to act twice in a turn. This does not affect spellcasting though, but is quite helpful nevertheless.

Nature: A moderate amount of Nature (4-6) Bless will give your scared units Regeneration when blessed. Thanks to their large base HP they will get more HP restored per turn and Regeneration will protect them a bit from Afflictions.


Massed Blade Wind:

All of your Oracles can cast Blade Wind once you research enough Evocation, and they can further boost themselves by casting Summon Earthpower which helps them with the fatigue the spell causes. Having three-four or more Oracles scripted Summon Earthpower - Bladewind - Bladewind - Bladewind -

Bladewind can do massive damage against unarmored troops which are common in the Early Age. Summon Earthpower is not necessary but it makes Bladewind more powerful since it scales well with increased Earth magic and it helps with spellcasting fatigue.

Keep in mind that Bladewind can hurt your troops also and is not so effective against armored targets.

Thug Commanders:

Troglodyte Lords and Ancient Lords can make good early thugs. Forging them Fire Pearls, Swords of Sharpness or Stingers and Black Steel Shields allows them to do Armor Piercing damage against their enemies with increased attack accuracy.

However the Troglodyte Lord is only useful against enemies that are of his size or larger since he Tramples but he has superior Attack and Defence compared to the Ancient Lord. However, he is not Sacred.

Later on in game when you research more Construction you can give them more powerful magic items.

Keep in mind that dealing with large mobs is Agartha's weakness, at least untill a certain point in the game, so you could consider stuff like Ancient Lord with Holy Scourge or Sword of Swiftness and a Water 9 bless that would give them 4 attacks per round in combat.

There are tons of items in the game and some combinations work better in some situations than others. Charcoal Shields are noteworthy replacements for Black Steel Shields and Fire Brands are superb replacements for Swords of Sharpness.

You could also try using one of the Oracles as a thug since they have superhuman stats, attack, defence and precision excluded, and they can cast the various protection spells that require Earth magic.

A Trample oriented Troglodyte Lord could be done with a Main Gaughe of Parrying, Charcoal Shield, Bracers of Defence and some armor and reinvigoration item.

Conquer the Seas:

Since nearly all of your units can go underwater conquest of the seas is a viable strategy. If there are no amphibious nations in the game you can conquer the seas with little opposition at all.

Oracles of Subterranean Waters with 2 Water picks can use some summons that call powerful underwater monsters and he can also cast Friendly Currents which makes your units less clumsy underwater.

Keep in mind that a vast number of underwater independents use poison weapons and are smaller than your units so you risk poisoning and getting ganged on.

Seas will allow you to launch attacks against enemy coastlines and you can find mundane and magical riches in the deeps if you are lucky. It will also be very hard for your enemy to eliminate you if you have water provinces under your control.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

You should put this up on the wiki:

http://strategywiki.org/wiki/Dominions_3:_The_Awakening

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I will, once I figure some Scale and Pretender design stuff. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I thought units with trample never used their weapons, but prefered to trample instead.
Or has this been changed in dom3?

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

They don't, but the SoS is for enemies that are of Size 4 or bigger. And MGoP is for the 5 Def.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

That is an excellent post.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif I hope it will be of use.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Very nice Nerfix! Agartha was my pick for my current (first) game of Dom3. I learned many of the things you are pointing out the hard way. Lost my Oracle prophet and an entire starting army because I misused them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I've picked Agartha for my very first serious demo game. Water 9 bless is pretty sexy. The only really annoying thing is that the Oracles choose to cast Flying Shards instead of Smite and hit my Ancient Ones more often than the enemy.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

You're not the only one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Yeah, it's rather stupid behaviour from them. =/

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

"However the Troglodyte Lord is only useful against enemies that are of his size or larger since he Tramples"

I'm going to have to disagree here. The troglodyte's weapons are only useful against creatures his own size (or for repelling), so why worry about his weapon at all?

The Troglodyte is there to trample, and he's really good at it. Slip on some heavy armor, a decent shield, and a defensive weapon (either a long weapon or a defensive weapon like faithful or a main gauche) and he can be very durable in combat. Put on boots of quickness or long strides and he can stomp on a lot of smaller enemies.

Those Troglodyte Lords are great anti-army thugs. Outfitting them for anti-hero work isn't even desirable, since so many enemy heroes are size 3. A properly armored Troglodyte lord can rack up dozens of kills and live to tell the tale. For a small outlay in gems, that's totally worth it.

-Frank

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I see your point. I will have to try this out.

I can see him being good as an emerengy anti-hero commander though since he has higher native Attack value than the Ancient Lord and otherwise rather similiar stats.

No doubt he can also be good against armies. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

EDIT: What sort of fatigue he gets from the armor?

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

The pretender/scale stuff. Sorry for the formating but I am a bit too tired to fix it... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Scale and Pretender Design:

When designing your Pretender God for Agartha you must think whether you want to purse a Bless strategy or not. Agartha can be played with a very
minor Bless Effect but can benefit from more powerful blessings.

Agartha has some tolerance towards Death scale because the vast majority of their units don't eat supplies. Death scale however leaves you with some
less Gold income and makes you more vulnerable to certain bad events and makes your units suffer more from old age. Taking Order to counter the bad
events and gold loss is a good idea if you go the Death Path

Taking some Order And Productivity can be a good decision as Agarthans can be expensive and resource intensive to build.

Magic scale can help you to boost your research, but it's usefulnes is somewhat situational. Playing with an Awake pretender means you can research
from the start while Dormant and Imprisoned pretenders won't be contributing to research for a while.

Noteworthy pretenders for Agartha are:

- The Dragons. Affordable, especially if you don't pursue a strong bless and you can have them to be Awake, have an OK dominion and economic scales
without resorting to the Death-3 path
- The Titan. You can get a low level Air and Earth blessing and decent scales and Dominion without going the Death-3 path or one of the Awakening
options. You can use either way to get more points if you want to.
- Cyclops. He is the easiest way to Earth-9 blessing if you want to pursue it.
- The Ageless Olm. A route for Water/Earth bless and he doesn't cost much in points.
- The Forge Lord. He offers a route for Fire/Earth bless and gets a forge bonus on top of it.
- The Risen Oracle. A terrific combat support pretender.
- Great Mother. She looks unappealing but offers a path to Earth/Nature bless.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif Heresy! She is a fertility (i.e. sex) goddess! For shame. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/rant.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Maybe the Agarthans think she is hott.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Here is my comment: excellent guide Nerfix. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

The risen oracle is not a terrific combat support pretender, but a terrific SC god http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Otherwise very nice guides Nerfix http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

Oh about the deathscale: Imho you should only take death in short games (blitzes), but in long games the income loss is too big usually.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

These weaknesses are imho extremely evil.

Especially the low attack and defense rating, and all the other minor weaknesses like big size, cold blooded etc. make this main problem even bigger.

I almost think that it would be best to simply mainly use troglodytes for expansion (+ your pretender if you took an expansion pretender) and later the cavern guards are somewhat attractive.

Once you have money you should start massing seal guards, even if you took no bless, because their weapon is magical, so they can at least potentially kill enemy SCs http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif.

But the earlygame is definitely tough for Argatha. If you can survive a bit then your oracles can do some nice battlemagic though, like magma eruption, petrify and blade wind.

The rhuax pact magma children are very nice imho, so are the umbrals.

But all in all imho Argatha is one of the weaker early era nations and extremely difficult to play.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I just finished an Agartha game and after several games of getting killed with other countries, this game instead I obliterated the enemies. The main reason is the Troglodyte. Massed Troglodyte attacks pretty much kill anything size 2 and under. They are also very easy to build en masse even in low resource provinces late game when you have tons of money.

Another *huge* advantage is the amphibiousness and the ability to build underwater but that's been mentioned.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Alright, I'm done with this part of the guide...as soon as someone makes an Early Agartha/Strategy page there I'll post it.


Now...Atlantis is next in my to-do list. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I joined a blitz yesterday as Agartha. I had a slow start, but took almost no losses during my indie conquest spree. Except troglodytes. I couldn't keep them alive. I didn't bother for them after the first few proved ineffective, and the various-sized Agarthans mashed the opposition without any real losses. Helheim's Blade Wind proved a bit more difficult, but it was just a minor loss. An army here or there isn't that important, is it? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Did you use an imprisoned bless pretender, or an awake expansion one?

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Coldblooded Pale Ones ... means they can use Jade Mask ? Hooho... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I used imprisoned Nature 9 Fire 4 dominion 8 Monolith, and pretty good scales (Ord 3 Prod 2 Death 3). My opponents riduculed my choice, even if Boron himself had said that to be a terrifying combo earlier on. Go figure. Well, I'll beat them in that game yet, and then we'll see! (That, or I get beaten and have to try again. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Trogs are sized 4. I seen them trample cavalry if my eyes didnt decieve me.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Of course they can trample cavalry, but at 50 gp a pop, against Blade Wind opposition, they aren't cost-effective.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Yes, Trogs are weak againist missile fire. But at the beginning of the game when resources are low they can be brought on mass and make good flanking units which can pretty much run over anything the indys have. Luckly they have quite large amount of HPs and have 7 protection so they can take a few hits from missiles before going down.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

For EA Agartha you can try imprisoned Ageless Olm pretender with W9 E9 N6 scales. Makes their sacred troops quite nasty. Actually Ageless Olm doesn't cost much design points and starts with E1 W1 so hes good bless platform.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

What sort of scales you took with that Olm?

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Order 3, sloth 3, heat 2 (better then cold since they are cold blooded), growth 0, misfortune 1 and drain 2.
Dominion strenght 4 and you still have 10 design points.

Btw, I made and error, its W9E9N4. Enough to give 5% regeneration and protect sacred units from afflictions.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Hmmm, interesting. A tad extreme for my tastes though. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I am enjoying playing Agartha.

I have found a bless strategy of W9, N8 works really well.

Regeneration is key, to take advantage of those high hps. Well 2 high damaging attacks allow them to rip through enemies with ease.

Had 20 ancients ones blessed with W9, N8 supported by a mage/priest slaughter 1 vampire lord, 20 vampires, and a 110 strong supporting cast of longdead, thralls. Took 4 afflictions, thats it. This was around turn 10.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

I just played Agartha. Got into an early war with Abysia, trounced them with the help of PoW's and Troglos/Troglo lords with Black Steel armor/Piercer.

The C'tis attacked.

Then Atlantis.

The Caelum. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

I did quite well I'd say, but I would have like to test out some thug builgs instead of hauling around random troops as firebrigades.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Great guide, thanks Nerfix.

I'm new Dom3 and picked EA Agartha for my first full game; turn ~20 and things are looking good, mostly due to the tips in this thread http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Couple of small things I noticed though.

While this is almost always the case, I've had an earth reader come up with 1 earth and 1 blood so there must be a very small chance of getting at least B as the random school and possibly A/S/N too, although I haven't seen one yet.

Something else I found out to my expense was that Agartha benefit a lot from a high base dominion. Especially if you're pursuing any sort of bless strategy. This is because all their strongest units (except troglodytes) are holy and with low dominion you'll really suffer in the middle -> end game because you can't recruit them quickly enough. As you mentioned, pale one's really aren't useful for anything other than chaff past about turn 25.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Some quick thoughts from my experiences with EA Agartha:

Trogs are really expensive. Yes, they cut through independents. But you've got one of the best nations for a bless strategy in the game. Giants with a good bless (nature, should have earth, think about fire to up the Att values?) will cut through independents also. They also have good MR (14), so they'll be spell-resistant and useful later on as well. As they tend not to die, they can quickly get 2-3XP, which will make their Att respectable. Most critically, as they're sacred they cost half upkeep. The money saved can go towards oracles and castles.

Summoning strategies are important. Umbrals, magma children and earth elementals are all great for the cost, and can be summoned by earth readers, so won't distract your Oracles.

Earth readers need to do your research and national summoning. They might be fairly cheap, but they're pretty average researchers. Drain might hurt, although with lightless lanterns you can make up the deficit later. Get +Magic and you'll be well in the game.

Heat is important for Agartha. The cold blooded fatigue penalty is astronomical, even a max E bless will barely dent it in cold 2-3. I wouldn't even recommend neutral temperature, take +1heat minimum. Death is also advisable (maybe 1-2!) as you don't need supplies, and the points are better spent elsehwere.

Being amphibious and having Water mages (albeit only E3-4, W1-2, very rarely W3 or E5), Agartha can compete underwater. Don't expect to outclass a water nation, but Agartha can put up a very respectable performance. There are also obvious strategic advantages - pop underwater and come out on land on the other side. What I would stress about Agartha is that although you CAN build fortresses underwater, DON'T unless the province supports indy mages. You cannot build ancient ones, troglodytes or earth readers underwater: without indy mages, you've just build a useless castle.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Just a note for any recent readers - this thread is almost two years old.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Aye sorry, I came across it in the strategy index and didn't notice how old it was until after I'd posted. Most of the info is still current anyhow.

Agema, I went with a F4E4N6 Forge Lord pretender; I considered a E9W9 Ageless Olm for a strong bless strat but it would have required some pretty extreme scales, and given that EA Agartha don't really get any decent thugs (in the early game at least) I figured it probably wouldn't be worth it. Any thoughts on this?

Also, are you sure that ancient ones and earth readers can't be recruited underwater? Being amphibious I'd have thought there wouldn't be a problem.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Underwater, for commanders you can recruit only pale one captains with - I think - a spear and sharkskin armour (11 prot?). Unitwise there are are wet ones with and without sharkskin armour. Whatever, they ain't worth it.

EA Agartha does have good thugs, right from the start! Ancient Lords and Oracles. Oracles have big advantages: they can self-bless, cast earthpower to regen fatigue, and an armour spell like stoneskin, ironskin or invulnerability. They are however incredibly expensive (400 gold), and some suffer from old age, bad for thugs. Ancient Lords might need to be blessed/buffed by items or an outside source, but are much cheaper and can be bought outside the capital.

F4E4N6 I think is a decent bless for Agartha. 4F is good not just for the bless but for getting fire boosting items. E4 is a pretty low reinvig bonus, you could think about increasing it if you have points as it won't make a big difference. N6 is a solid +10regen bless, giving giants plenty of lastability.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

The troglodyte commanders are decent thugs too.

Re: Agartha, from my under-the-works demo guide
 

Trog thugs have a serious problem.

Taking out thugs often involves MR-resistable spells, like Paralyze, enslave, smite or even simple mind blasts. Trogs have poor MR. This wouldn't be too serious very early, but would be a huge liability later on.

Using trog thugs for fighting in a cold 2-3 environment may be better than Agarthans: even with reinvig from bless and item, Oracles/Lords may tire very quickly. An Oracle that can cast summon earthpower as well and might get away with it.