Marignon National Summons
 

Firstof all i would like to say im back (just decided to make a new account), have dom2 working again AND have my copy of dom3 working *cries tears of joy* but now onto the subject of this post.

I started a new game with MA marignon, mostly to try out that kick-*** sounding heavenly choir national (the manual lists the angels as lvl2 priest and the harbingers as mage/priests). When i finally had the astral gems to cast it (144 is diffcult with 1 starting astral income) at first i was amazed (that seraph is better than alot of pretenders,77 health, full slots, 14 natural prot, +4 awe, fireshield, flying, sacred, 21 strength and F4A4S4H4)but then i got confused, searching around for my others angels.
Then i realise that they had come down as troops, the harbingers (who are usually quite good), while tough with their awe were pahetic (5ap dmg with horn and thats it really) and all the angels of the choir could do was tie up archers (strength 12 and only weapon is fist) so, while the seraph rocks i really dont find this spell worth the cost, if they could give the angels of the heavenly choir a weak golden/flaming sword and make the harbingers commanders (maybe bump up the cost a little/reduce it to 2 harbingers) it would help.

For anyone who has seen all the stats ect in the manual/tried the spell for themselves what did you think?

On the other hand, the angel of fury is amazing. 49 health, blood vengance +2, MR18 and decent other stats he makes an amazing thug (sword of swiftness/that single handed sword with AoE fire, shield of gleaming gold, cheap helmet(horror if possible), any armour you want, any boots you want, ring of regen and amulet of luck) who is practically unkillable (awe, amazing defence with the parry bonus, good prot, blood vengance, decent health and regen) and, imo very worth the cost.
Im going to try 3 lightly equipped angels (horror helm, charcoal shield, ring of regen and any weapon you want), with blood vengance and fireshield combined with the area 3 of them would take up the enemy army would desintigrate (make sure to target archers) under thier own attacks.

What do you guys think of marignons nationals?

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

They are Pythium nationals as well. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif You can get them with either nation.

Angel of fury is more weaker SC then a thug because of blood vengeance. In general, they all rock. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Yea, blood vengance does make them into decent SC's but they need a fair bit of equipment imo before i would class them as weaker SC's. Forgot about them being pythium nationals (even though my original plan was to use hem as pythium..).
I agree that they all rock but still, the heavenly choir is currently overpriced for what it does imo (not by much, but the only useful unit you get is the seraph...)

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

What, Angels of the Choir only have Fists for their attack? =/

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

A single fist attack from a strength 12, attack 11 unit..

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

They can't be told to Fire?

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

They dont have anything to fire (only the 3 harbingers do and even then, its only 5ap damage vrs normal troops iirc)

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Unless heavanly horn is changed, its 5ap x3 vs demon/undead, but is AOE 5, so its not too bad, expecially if you have more than one.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Can always wish for Lords of Destruction to gather a group of awesome firers - his lightning missile attack seems to be AOE 1, even if the disease attack is bugged and never fires.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Never understood how anyone can afford to wish for GROUPS of anything...

but what is this bugged disease attack you are speaking of? Doesn't Plague Bow work? Never heard of this. Is this in the bug thread?

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Plague bow works on scorpion man so I see no reason why it wouldn't work on LoD.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

It is x3 vrs undead but they dont show up that often (and pythium and marignon are fairly capable of thrashing undead themselves). AoE 5 is fine but iirc its short range and fairly low ammo. Also, even if you think the harbingersd are good as troops your still left with the problem of 9 sucky angels of the heavenly choir.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Just finished my first game with LA Marignon. I summoned the regular (leader) Harbinger, and found suckage in the fact that giving it an item in either hand slot prevents the Horn from being used. This was the same in Dom2, but having "fist" for the backup weapon once the Horn's out of ammo is lame.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Why not fire x5, cast spells? Lightning bolts are fun...

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Because, as ive said, the harbingers are only TROOPS, they have no magic, priestly powerers or troop leading ability.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Hmm, it indeed seems that the spell isn't worth the cost. 144 astral pearls is....a lot.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

For the commander Harbinger, that is a good idea. It would still be nice to be able to give them some better self-defense than "fist" in case they're attacked.

As already mentioned, it is not an option for the troop Harbingers.

Would changing the spell so that it summons the same number of Harbinger commanders (instead of the troop kind) make it worth the cost?

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

It could make. But something also needs to be done with the Fist Angels... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

A weak flaming sword (3dmgx3 vrs undead, length 2, fire dmg) could do for the angels and commander harbingers would be great (although, as i said if you upgrade the fist angels and make harbingers commanders you might have to drop 1 harbinger). As is there is no reason to cast this spell unless you really need the seraphs magic skills.
If i had 144 astral pearls as marignon that would get me 2-3 well equipped angels of fury (rather than 1 unequipped seraph and some sucky troops).

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

I quite like the idea.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Remember that big spells aren't always worth their cost, often they are cheaper than they should be, or in some cases more expensive. Could the angels possibly be armed with thunder fists? If there is some thematic reason to have them punch undead, they could atleast get magical fists. WRT the horn being replaced by magic weapons, that should be fixed, and its easy to do with a mod file: give it the bonus tag, and harbingers will allways have it.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Whats wrong with an angelic fist ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

I thought his point was that a Fist is a quite feeble weapon, and makes the spell not worth it's cost.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Fists are fine. I once had a talk with an intern condemned for murder. He told us (colleagues and students) "it is very easy to kill a human". He was not explicit, but he hinted that a fist in the chest could accidentally kill a person. Hmm, sorry didn't mean to be so serious.

If you are an angel, why bother with something less than your own bodily arsenal. A fist is fine http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Why not "Angelic fist of Swift and Inescapeable Judgement"? That would probably satisfy the malcontents.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Suddenly I am reminded of Land of Legends and the Human Monks. O_o

Okay, that came out of nowhere.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Many monks seem to be armed with said fists of irreversible woe (or whatever I called them). It is quite a common thing, really.

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Yes, atleast give a boost to their fist (low strength+fist=weak unit)

Re: Marignon National Summons
 

Actually that was serious Kris. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif 1 hit can easily kill a human. Theres a specialized martial art techinque for that even.
Ehm sorry for going OT. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/Injured.gif