Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

If anyone has any hard info on if this weapon has entered service or not I would appreciate a date.

PLEASE......no quotes from Wikipedia !

No guesses either.... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif


edit: and has it been sold to any other nations?

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Just checked the Bundeswehr website.
They make no mention of the IT-600 in their 'current weapons' page, so surely not in service yet. (here for PzFst page, try this one for further info if it works.)

On the other hand, it is briefly mentionned in the 'future infantry' (IdZ) projects page, which means it should be in the operational trials stage. Now for an IOC date...

For reference, here is an ArmyTechnology.com quote on the IdZ program.Sorry, best data I could find, hope that helps in any way.

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Most of those webpages I had already checked ( or at least English versions..the German versions look familiar.) As you say, it is briefly mentioned in the 'future infantry' (IdZ) projects page but again, no dates

Typically there is conflicting info ( which is why it's always fun when people find "errors" in the OOB's )

The German website says.."Die Kampfentfernung gegen stehende und beweglich Ziele wird von 300 auf 600 m erhöht."

so a 600 metre range which is also what I have found in many other places..that's why it's known as the 3T-600 but in the "ArmyTechnology.com quote on the IdZ program." they say......"Panzerfaust has a range of 300m against moving targets and 500m against stationary targets." so that's the PzFaust 3T ( dual charge ) version NOT the new 3T600

It's always SUCH fun sorting this out.

BTW, we now have a new "Multi Charge RPG" class in the game so things like the RPG-29 and Pzfst 3T are now modeled correctly for dealing with ERA equipped vehicles. If anyone has a ready list of all the DC RPG type weapons currently in use we would appreciate the info

Thanks

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Given the 'improved accuracy' rethoric on everyone's website, I'd say that the IT-600 sight gives decent hit probability against moving targets out to 600m as opposed to 300m for the basic PzFSt-III. The BW is clearly talking about operational range, not overall (technical) range. You could surely lob a PzFst rocket one mile away, but hitting anything would be potluck. Same with the Dynarange suit.

I don't know what the new accuracy rating has to be to have the same hit% at 600m as the PzFst-III had at 300m, you can probably figure that out better.
Remember that the system is clearly a clip-on sight, so the overall parameters of the projectile (including range) should probably left unchanged from the PzFst-3T.

Thinking about it, what about giving a decent FC rating to the PsFst-3 IT-600 teams?
I don't know if that is doable, but all in all, that would make at least as much sense as increasing the accuracy.

I'll tell you if I find anything reliable about service of other tandem-HEAT weapons. For starters, you may want to look up the Dutch Defence Ministry website, apparently the winning contender of the SRAT program was something called "PanzerFaust-3T600...http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif dunno how it turned out eventually. With any chance you'll be able to decipher official Dutch articles better than me!

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Don,
when you write about a "Multi Charge RPG" class, do you mean already available or upcoming with the new V3 patch?
I know I should check with Mobhack, but my PC's presently down.
If
just upcoming, wouldn't it be easier to implement a new HEAT class, say 223, which would allow to model even multicharge tank ammo?
Thanks for your dedication.

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

The 222 code is used to allow LAWs etc in slots other than the first one (the only one with a HEAT slot). It is a switch to tell these to use HEAT pen figure instead of AP, *IF* the round is listed as AP. It's not used for slot one weapons which is the one the tank guns use

Don

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

I'll worry about how to deal with them once I know who's using the system and right now all I ever find on the web are talk about the system NOT who's using it. I can assume the current nations that use the Pzf 3 system would be the prime customers but you know what happens when things are "assumed"..they usually end up wrong

As to the range..no they wouldn't be the same range as the Pzf 3 ( and 3T ) in game terms. This new one extends the range so that would be reflected in the stats ( upped to 12 hexes from 10 ) but first, before I put them in I need to find out who....if anyone..is using it. I also need to fid out if the existing Pzf 3 customers are also using the 3T version

Don

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Should there be any dutch files that need translating (on this or other OB issues) feel free to get it touch with me.

Narwan

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

I have also a Pz.F. question when did the orig. PF3 enter wide service in the WG army ? 1990 or 91 ??

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

There was a bit of a debate about that but the very earliest would be late 1992 and they are now set up to appear 1/93 in the West German OOB I'm working on for V3. ( this corrects the dates in the OOB's you have now )
The 3T version , which has been added to the OOB's I'm working on now but not in the OOB's you have, entered service in 1998 and it is a dual charge warhead which is now modeled in the game as such with it's own weapon class

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

I only use my own "Alpha OOB" - but late 92- early 93 seems realistic. Till then they have to use the le. Pzfaust "Lanze". Not a very good weapon at this timeframe anymore. Also it is important that the Lanze remains in service for a while (reserve and 2nd line or support forces didn´t get Pz. Faust 3´s).....Carl Gustav still in serive, but only for battlefield illumination which is not modelled in the game anyway.

Will the long range hitting % of inf. At weapons put down a bit ? They are all to acurate on long distances (depending on type over 150-250m) esp. against moving targets (IMHO).

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Don,
thanks for implementing the dual charge infantry AT, it's been a long time request on my side. I've had enough hard times with my russian infantry trying to cook ERA equipped chinese tanks...

Francois

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

I totally agree with LAWs hit percentages with alpha. At 200-300 meters it´s tricky to put a Apilas even into a sitting target, especially when you don´t know the range (have to use the quite rudimentary range-guessing device in the sight). And check out the massive range of RPG-16D.. 16 hexes, come on.

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

OK, Come on......give me better info than this

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...n0546/lsn2.htm

800 metres is 16 hexes. If you've got better info lets hear it. The RPG-7v is rated on this website as having "The maximum effective range is 500 meters for stationary targets and 300 meters for moving targets. We gave it a 6 which is 300 so I *suppose* then either the PRG7V should be boosted to 10 or the PRG-16D need to drop to 10. I'll double check some of the other AT weapons but if you have any good info jump it with it. It's more useful than " come on "

Don

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Well my info is personal experience with the leichte Panzerfaust 44 "Lanze" - these and simmilar weapon types
are overrated in the game (RPG etc.). Maybe newer models have much better sights etc. I remember though that in certain versions from SPWAW (7.1 and before) the M9 Bazooka was a similar wonder weapon (7 range and too high heat penetration). Later they put this weapon down to more realistic stats.

Also what i find "interesting" is that how much Infantry in this game are sometimes "supermen". For example they get shelled with 120mm grenades+MG, but still they fire back with their RIFLES and MGs on the tank. IMHO infantry that comes under heavy gun fire tries to save their lives, take cover etc...and maybe shoot back with weapons that have a chance to damage the tank later (if they survive)....but that is OT. Sorry.

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

"Come on" meaning exactly that against a moving tank-sized target 800 meters is a HUGE distance for even a "bipod-equipped" light RPG (however heavy recoilless rifles on tripods or other heavy mounts can cope with these distances). As the game can´t distinguish between moving and stationary targets, RPG-16D has too long range game-wise, as it is used mostly against moving point targets, like vehicles. The M72 LAW has max range against stationary targets of 300 meters and moving 150 meters. And it is given a general range of 3 or 4 hexes in the game. So maybe the dropping down to 10 hexes for RPG-16D might be a good idea (it´s still 500 meters). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

The M72 LAW is given as having the following stats for effective range

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m72.htm
-Stationary Target ...... 200 meters (660 feet)

-Moving Target........... 165 meters (541 feet)

=========

http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/app4/law.html The M72 had a maximum range of 1000 m (3300 ft), and effective range against a stationary target was about 10-200 m (33-660 ft).
--------------------------
http://www.olive-drab.com/od_infweap...ssiles_m72.php
M72 LAW Specifications
The effective range (beyond which there is a less than 50% chance of hitting the target) is 541 feet (165 m) for a moving target and 660 feet (200 m) for a stationary target.

I just picked three at random from a Google search. 200 for stationary and 165 for moving seems fairly standard info. That matches your 150 for moving close enough and in game terms 150 and 165 are the same.

M72 LAW 's are give generally a 3 hex range in the game. Five nations give it 4. We are still cleaning up inconsistancies in the OOB's becasue of the number of different people who have worked on them in the past. We have refined our error checking softwear and in doing so are finding all kinds of little "surprises" that are going to be fixed for the V3 upgrade.

But I digress.....

3 is the number used in 38 OOB's which represents the effective range for a moving target for that weapon. I will need to check other, similar weapons to confirm that that the moving target range has been the "standard" I suspect it's going to be a little of both but maybe I'll get lucky with this one but if that is the case 10 would be a better number to use and I will adjust all the OOB's that use it accordingly

Don

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

The M72 LAW is okay in the game. I was mainly talking about those with much longer range and that hit too acurate. I tested the M72 (game), it is in the game quite at short range not at long range (as it should be)...other weapons are concerned.

But i stop now, this is not a complaint btw. just observation. I will take the game as it is. But there are some things that disturb me, so i voice my opinion.

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

MY point in using the LAW as an example is to establish which numbers was used for range. In the case of the LAW it was the moving target range. In the case of the rpg-16D whoever put it into the OOB first used the stationary range as the range

What I will check while I'm working with the OOB's is to do a random sampling of ranges for these types of weapons and see if the ranges have been mixed for other types as well

Don

Re: Panzerfaust 3 IT-600
 

Thanks DRG. I was just pointing this one out. You probably know my reason for this, as I myself don´t like my little APCs burning that much.. and from that range from a single RPG http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif