Pirates & Nomads update
 

Pirates & Nomads is still on V1.5, I've just made a small change in the comp. enhancement stuff.

The game was not targetting the really low hitpoint "Cheap" mount internals properly, so I have changed the cheap mount to "normal".
This will mean the AIs use normal components in their ships, and will not affect any other aspect of the game. If you have been abusively using the "cheap" mount, your ships will now be normal; the "budget" components are still OK to use, though.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

AY!!! My pirate economy is bad enough as it is... methinks I'll wait until this game is finished http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Actually, if you're trying to capture ships, this change should make it easier... The game was not hitting the cheap self-destructs & stuff as often as it should, and you'd finish off the Last 15 components with one shot. If the AIs aren't using cheap mounts, then don't worry about it http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

You do realize that skimping on component expenses reduces their hitpoints to 25%, right?

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Yeah, which is why I used them on my remote miners (get the most out of my "money")... my warships (all six of them until the endgame, right now) use normal components.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>my warships (all six of them until the endgame, right now) use normal components.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Even armor? I know 2x the price is quite harsh, but you do get a 40% stronger armor plate with Premium http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you skimp on the internals, you can spend the money on better armor for your ship, and still pay the same price overall.

Also, has the AI been using "cheap" mount internals?

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 14 May 2001).]

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

How do you get the Hydroponics bay and similiar components to work. I've built ships with them but they make nothing?

Frank V.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

They only work on the Resource Ship/ Resource Base.

The description says something about them being a plug-in module.

The way it works is that the Resource ship/base hull has giant ramscoops to collect gas, which the plug-ins convert to minerals/organics/radioactives.

So, just put them on a resource ship, and you'll be all set.

Note that the resource production listed is affected by your maintenance trait, so it will not be totally accurate.

BTW, I highly suggest using resource ships as warships early on... They have about the same space (after required comps) as an escort, and they pay for themselves http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 15 May 2001).]

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
Even armor? I know 2x the price is quite harsh, but you do get a 40% stronger armor plate with Premium http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

If you skimp on the internals, you can spend the money on better armor for your ship, and still pay the same price overall.

Also, has the AI been using "cheap" mount internals?

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 14 May 2001).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep, even armor... I had to use my resource converter every turn and run at least one Resource Procurement op every two turns to stay afloat with just three DS, one LC, two BB... and two ES SYSs that went back and forth, repairing the warships on the lines and retrofitting mining bases. But anyway, I am much better at research than the AI, especially when I can capture/analyze to get a lot of tech, so I got Heavy Shield Gens around turn 60, while the AI is still on PShield Vs (what's left of the AI, that is). That's one component on the warships that I make cheap mount, 160kT damage won't make too much difference once 2500+ is done http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

As for the AI designs, I think I have yet to see a non-weapon internal that was not cheap mount. I'm just glad the AI never got around to putting Self-Nukes on their ships http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>while the AI is still on PShield Vs<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The AIs aren't programmed to research shields past lev 10, so they will almost never get Heavy Shields.

In my story game, the Jreanar must have picked up heavy shields from an ancient ruins, and its really messed with their designs. They still try to fit 5 shield generators on their DNs, but end up with only 3, and skimp a bit on weapons & other defences http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

They're still tough to kill, though.

How many slave yards do you have operating? And how often do you manage to capture a ship?
What kind of maintenance rate are you paying?

I would suggest fighters & sats as a good investment, if you give a carrier a boarding party, the fighters can do the dirty work, and the carrier can capture the ships.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Ah, so that's why they haven't gone to Heavy Shields... I might have to go in and tweak the AI files (I'll be sure to send them to you, to check/add in the mod), even if it won't matter since I'm about to plague the AIs Last remaining homeworld....

Well, for slave yards... I was planning to build enough value improvement plants so that when I scrapped the research facilities (one at a time) and built the slave yards I would have 250% in each resource when the Last one was finished. I then cursed for a long time when I discovered planet value doesn't affect them http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif So right now I have five or six slave yards, I was going to start scrapping research centers and building them on every world when I started to lose minerals faster than I could convert, then I captured an AI SYS. So I now have a BattleStation mineral miner over a planet/moon with 270% or so minerals, to be finished in two turns, and another to be built at a similar planet/moon 9 turns after that, solving my resource problem. I usually get about 1 DN/turn, a ~3000 mineral scrap on site, ~15000 if I take it in to the recycler (not often, since they're usually fairly damaged, with low supplies, and it's a 5 turn trip with an intact ship, and several "rogue" DNs along the way), it's getting fewer now as my ships are just blowing them up. I forget maintainance, but it won't be a problem soon http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I already have fighters doing guard duty, mostly in home systems, with one group guarding a miner in hostile territory... 30 with 3xsDUC have taken out three DNs http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif I only have three satellites in my whole empire, both are 1xCompCore, 1xHyperOptics, 1xStealthArmor, one in home system, the other cloaked in the system with fighters/miner. I never bothered with full fleged production of fighters (I don't think I have more than 100), I had to focus on mines in the early part of the game, and then ships became faster/cheaper than fighters w/ carrier.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Sounds good. How big is your empire?

It may be worth sending two or three ships across the galaxy to start up a second base, with fresh aliens to steal from. It'll double your income after all! http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Are you making any use of the "Pirate Hoard" facility? You can get a ton of storage out of it, real cheap.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

It's a test game actually, only one custom AI in a small quadrant http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

My next game will probably be five custom AIs (I'll go in and tweak the files, + custom racial traits), and 3 or 5 starting planets this time, in a large quadrant. Might even try my hand at writing something for Game Stories (I explain the multiple planets as my pirates coming upon a peaceful researching race, and offering protection in return for construction abilities and technological advances http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif )

At the time the game ended, I had three systems with homeworlds, no "colonies" (I thought I didn't check the boxes for only colonize planet type/atmosphere, but I guess I did). Then I had remote bases mining in four systems (4 SS, 1 BS), and ships mining in two asteroid systems (1 ES, 1 DN). Could have had more but it was only going to be a few turns until all the AI population died from Plague http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

I had built two Pirate Hoard facilities, never really had enough resources to store in anything more than that http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/ima...ons/icon12.gif

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>My next game will probably be five custom AIs (I'll go in and tweak the files, + custom racial traits)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P&N v1.6 will give you the ability to use solar sails without main engines, giving ships with unlimited range early on. You may wany to consider a low-maintenance AI that will use this to create a huge, wide ranging fleet of slower ships (and lots of space for weapons & shields too!)

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by suicide_junkie:
P&N v1.6 will give you the ability to use solar sails without main engines, giving ships with unlimited range early on. You may wany to consider a low-maintenance AI that will use this to create a huge, wide ranging fleet of slower ships (and lots of space for weapons & shields too!)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Great, now someone needs to come out with a space sailing ship shipset! Ive tried to make one, get frustrated really quick.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

BTW, this addition has just passed final testing. It is in!.

Now, I just gotta make sure the AIs dont use six solar sails instead of engines http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Will:

Then I had remote bases mining in four systems (4 SS, 1 BS), and ships mining in two asteroid systems (1 ES, 1 DN
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you give some advice on remote and asteroid mining ? In particular is it really profitable after ship maintenance costs are paid ? I suppose you could mine with satellites but you still have to pay for a ship on station to distribute the resources don't you ? And how fast does the production rate drop due to the loss of value mentioned in the description ?

If the mining is in home space you don't have to defend but wouldn't it be really awkward if any enemy came around ? All that investment down the drain...

If it is profitable I would build a space yard ship, station it at the asteroid and have at least one satellite bay. Build and launch a satellite or more per turn till you hit 100 then move on to the next. Is that how you do it ?

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Well, keep in mind that I'm using the pirate mod here... and using the Cheap "weapon" mount, which makes all non-weapon components have 1/5th the damage, and I believe 1/2 the cost (not sure on that, but SJ is taking it out, so it doesn't matter much anymore http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif ). Basically, my secret is to use bases. Satellites will only have one out of the group mine the planet (at least I'm pretty sure it's like that), so you don't get as much gain out of it. However, with bases, you get 50% of normal maintanance. With reduced cost, and increased area for production, it can be worthwhile. What I looked for were planets with moons. I checked to see which resource type had the highest total percentage in the sector, and built a base to mine that there. Since there is a "feature" where the value only goes down per ship (which can only be one) instead of per mining component, you will have a base which will produce a slowly decreasing amount of resources for a long time. I believe my "record" production came from the BattleStation, over a planet with moon, total of 270 or so percent minerals. I recieved 25k minerals the turn it was completed, and I believe it cost me 17k to construct and 1300 in maintainance. So it paid for itself in a turn, with slowly decreasing returns.

Remote Mining is *NOT* a viable economic strategy for a normal game. It does, however, make for an interesting handicap game (I almost lost at one point, in my game). It can be useful in games where both colonize only home planet type and colonize only home planet atmosphere are selected, but it would be best to fully develop all colonizable worlds, then focus on supplementing with remote mining. It also makes for a great tool to devalue potential enemy colonies.

As for it being awkward if an enemy came around... all my mining operations occured either with a fighter (read: zero maintainance) escort or with my empire between any hostile forces. Remote mining is risky, slow to return, doesn't return as much as planet-based resources, and the returns you do get decrease over time. The biggest advantage is that no space port or equivalent is required.

SJ, I'll swing by mod forum and pick it up, then run through it when I get home tomorrow. I don't think there should be a problem with 6x solar sails unless it has "engine" attached to it. I'll try to make an AI do it.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I suppose you could mine with satellites but you still have to pay for a ship on station to distribute the resources don't you ?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>No, the Robominer automatically distributes the resources as it mines them. You don't even have to have a spaceport in the system, so you can robomine those systems with nothing but asteroids in them.

------------------
Cap'n Q

The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Well, keep in mind that I'm using the pirate mod here... and using the Cheap "weapon" mount, which makes all non-weapon components have 1/5th the damage, and I believe 1/2 the cost (not sure on that, but SJ is taking it out, so it doesn't matter much anymore<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah. Cheap mounts screw up the SE4 damage routines, but the way it works now (latest V1.5) is:
Mount : effect
A+: +100% price, +40% HP
A : +50% price, +20% HP
B : normal
C : -20% price, -50% HP

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>SJ, I'll swing by mod forum and pick it up, then run through it when I get home tomorrow. I don't think there should be a problem with 6x solar sails unless it has "engine" attached to it. I'll try to make an AI do it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There are currently two copies of the Solar Sail.
- Exact normal copy from SE4
- "solo model", which has 1 standard movement, and one less bonus movement than the equivalent normal sail.

Ie. the solo model counts as an engine, in order to get SE4 to recognize that the ship's movement is 3, not zero.

If nessesary for AI purposes, I would be willing to reorder components.txt.
Eg. move solar sails ahead of engines, if the AI picks the Last available component.

I would also want to discourage most AI races from tring to build engineless ships. (but if you want to do it, go ahead http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif)

-----------------------------------------

With this new solar sail thing, who would like a new "Die-Hard Sailors" racial trait, that would make you give up fancy engines in favour of more powerful sails and sailing techniques? (Ie. Solar Sail V's, and no engines beyond Ion III)

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

Does the solar sail use supplies, since it is acting like an engine?
Does it hold supplies? If so, you can give the solar sail the solar panel ability to replinish supplies after combat.

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

my god!!! You guys have been busy since I've been away... not only has the pirate mod apparently taken off, ya'll have made considerable progress on the nomad as well?

Not to mention that SJ has made Colonel - congrats...

guess I'll have to find time to try out this new pirate mod

Re: Pirates & Nomads update
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Does the solar sail use supplies, since it is acting like an engine?
Does it hold supplies? If so, you can give the solar sail the solar panel ability to replinish supplies after combat. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
The solar sails use no supplies, but I think I'll make the "solo" sails use 1 supply per move.

If you're using solar sails without engines, you will HAVE to dedicate space to supply storage, but my supply bays are reasonably sized for the job.

For this mod, the 20kT for solar sails includes the sail material storage space, the hardpoint connections, and the manouevering thruster ports. You decide how much supply storage you need for your weapons.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>my god!!! You guys have been busy since I've been away... not only has the pirate mod apparently taken off, ya'll have made considerable progress on the nomad as well?
Not to mention that SJ has made Colonel - congrats...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks! I don't know how long you've been away, so I can't really tell how much the Nomads have changed since then http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif
I did get the resource generation fixed (used to be 25% of what it should), and they have a lot of nifty toys.

[This message has been edited by suicide_junkie (edited 21 May 2001).]