SE:V Manual Released
 

Check it:
Steam page is up, and so is the manual.
http://storefront.steampowered.com/v...pId=1690&#

Right click + save ftw.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

o.O

Same number of pages as the Dominions 3 manual. Only it looks like it's on letter sized pages instead of half-letter. But a lot of it seems to be empty space and some screenshots of dubious merit (like adding in all the weapon component pictures, etc). Definitely looks better than the SEIV and Starfury manuals though. I'll reserve full judgement for when I receive my copy of the game and go over it in more detail. Somehow I don't think it's gonna ship with a hardcopy manual...

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

A newbie Steam question:

If I buy the game on Steam (which I will have to do as cannot be sent the boxed item it seems (or at least cannot wait for it... (to many '()'))), can I still play if I unregister from Steam ?

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Hmm the copy I got seems to be garbled. I've tried re-downloading and I still get a garbled pdf. Strange.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

No, you have to maintain a steam account. You might be able to keep playing the game, but you will definitely be unable to reinstall or patch it in the future without an active Steam account. Note that there are other downloadable versions of the game that do not use Steam, such as the one offered directly by S1st. The SE4 downloadables tended to be flakier than the Steam version though.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Erf.

In case I would have a friend in NY, and in case that friend could be made visiting me after the 16th, and in case I would like to ask that friend to bring me a gift, in which shop should I advise him to go to get a boxed SE5 ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

work ok for me

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I hate electronic manuals. Give me a paper manual and I will play the game.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Oh, there will be. Have faith in the player community. But it will require a few months of testing after release to compile this information.

And when it's ready (this will require a few cycles of testing triggering patches for bugs, and then the patches requiring more testing) maybe we can make a deal with a POD publisher to make a printed version available.

I have already emailed MM suggesting he make a deal with a POD publisher to offer a printed version of the PDF manual for cheap. Anyone interested in this might also email him to add weight to my suggestion. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

SE Wiki is raring to go, awaiting your contributions to fill it with all sorts of useful modding info!

http://wiki.spaceempires.net/index.php/Space_Empires_V

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

You do get a smaller paper manual with the boxed game, but the PDF is much bigger and contains colour pictures of practically everything. It would be uneconomical to include that as a hard copy.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I know that community is almighty. But I woudn't mind an official guide, though it will remove half of a joy.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

You can push the "print" button and it will magically become paper manual without costing a penny to MM http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Ok let me put it too you this way. I used to pay $40.00 to $50.00 for a game that actually came with a manual. It didn't cost me any thing extra.

Today I still pay between $40.00 and $50.00 dollars for a game but no manual. So now not only do I have to pay full price for the game, I have to pay even more for the paper and the ink to print the game manual???? In todays age publishing a manual is no where near as expensive as it was five or even two years ago. Hell with all the new Xerox and LeXmark copier and printer technology they could mass produce manuals all day and still cost only penies. Whereas the cartrages of ink for my HP printer costs $50.00 dollars each and last only about 250 pages.

No Thanks. That is just greed on the game publishers end pure and simple.

Even more evidence of greed. We used to get nice solid jewel cases for the game disks. Now all we get are paper disk covers. Hum... how much do jewel cases cost? While we pay about $20.00 for 100 of them, they the game publishers pay about $0.6 cents for them.

(Small game publishers like Shrapnel are exempt from this. heir profit margins are so small that these costs do end up saving money and are perfectly valid cost control measures. But larger publishers who sell tens of thousands of games can aford the extra $2.06 that it would cost to include a manual along with a protective jewel case for the game.)

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

In reply to no particular member but to the thread in general. OMG. We (Shrapnel Games) have tried to stick to our resolve to take the high road on this release. But this is ridiculous, and I cannot refrain from pointing it out.

Has anyone read the Warranty Disclaimer from the SEV manual? Please know, Strategy First, the "publisher", is located in Canada; Malfador Machinations is located in California. Shrapnel Games, when SEIV and SEIV Gold were published, was located in Wake County, North Carolina:
I'm sorry. I care very much about Aaron Hall, and I can't believe they couldn't even take the time to do this right.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I think Strategy First botched things from beginning to end. Practically no marketing, bad website, worse forum, very bad release (instead of releasing it everywhere at once, it's dribbling out haphazardly). I hope Aaron dumps them.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Thanks for the post, Jarena.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

At least we can still download a manual; in the console world you have to buy a "strategy guide" for $20 just to get what used to be in the manuals.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

heh.

The demo had it right, so that's just bizzare.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Maybe we have paper cover for CD instead of plastic to save the earth ecology ?
Maybe we have no printed manuals to save the Amazonian forest ?
Maybe I'm very naive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ?

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Annette - maybe their attorneys are forum shopping and prefer the laws in NC and particularly Wake County! (j/k of course). This is malpractice if their attorneys actually charged them a review fee on this one. Any action now arising from SE5 can only be brought in that County unless both parties consent to forum change. What a mess!

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

No offense, but I doubt the paper manuals are printed on trees cut down in the Amazon. Trees harvested for paper are generally the product of tightly controlled harvesting of a renewable resource. About the jewel cases you may have a point, although users can just buy their own empty cases cheaply anyway. Saving the environment is a worthy goal, in any case.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I remember back in the day getting full-color, glossy page game manuals with my Nintendo games. Now I'm lucky if I get a half-piece of printer paper with the company's name and the conroller layout.
How the times have changed. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Caduceus:
Many thanks,
You wouldn't happen to be a MD, would you?

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I love shrapnel games and think they are one of the best publisher of the games they shell on the net or in the world.

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

In this era of shrinkage - smaller boxes, smaller manuals, etc. it is a shame that manuals have fallen by the wayside.

PM'ed you Jarena. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I'm sorry if I appear a bit slow but I don't GET the warranty thing. Did S1 just copy the warranty from Shrapnel since although they are in Canada they are quoting Shrapnels location?

Also I am in Australia, does this mean I can't get a warranty? (not something I have ever payed attention to before)

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

It doesn't mean you don't get a warrenty. It means- if the EULA is valid, and that's..questionable..that your local laws concering warrenties don't take effect, and instead any disputes have to use the laws and courts of North Carolina.

By the way, amusing little tidbit in the SFI EULA:
"You may not: ..Alter, decompile, modify reverse engineer or disassemble the Software, create derivative works based upon the Software,..
..Upload or transmit the Software, or any portion thereof, to any electronic bulletin board, network, or other type of multi-use computer system regardless of purpose"

Wouldn't that technically forbid mods? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

That wouldn't technically forbid mods -- that totally forbids mods.


That's correct. They took our License Agreement word for word and then just changed the publisher from us to them. They didn't even change the location http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Well, text files and bitmaps are hardly "software."

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I call it careless.

Well, if any of you become engaged in a legal battle with SFI and find yourself in Wake County, North Carolina, you have a place to stay http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I checked the PDF that came with my Australian copy and it does have the North carolina stuff

I can't find anything called a warranty disclaimer in my hard copy booklet, but there is a Software licence agreement at the back. It does have the stuff about not modifying the software but as Fyron says that appears to be executable "software" not text files and images.

What is different is that it talks of Canadian federal and international copyright law and says the agreement will be governed by the laws of Canada and the province of Quebec.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Hey Tim,

Perhaps you guys can charge them for your lawyer's time?

--------

And for the rest of us, we'd just better hope that Quebec doesn't succeed in separating and forming a new country!

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

The key statement here is:

"create derivative works based upon the Software"

That would be mods.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Too funny jimbob!

If we did, they'd just declare bankruptcy. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Derivative works would be, like... Someone going out and making 'Squidge, loneliest little Eee' First-Person Adventure game and then selling it for profit.

Mods are not considered derivative software because they have to be run on the original and are not being sold for money. (If they're sold for money, though, they can be nailed.)

Of course, when creating a mod based off something (BSG, ST, SW, B5) you have to be careful with THEIR copyright laws.

Well, as a closer. Strategy First sucks... I mean, I held out hope, but god... I compared the SEIV and SEV manuals, and, well, the SEIV one beats 'em by leaps and bounds. Not only that, S1 has a nasty history of screwing their partners. In the not-so-friendly way, too.


(least, I think that's right.)

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

And I used to buy comics for $0.25, too http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif It's called inflation.

The cost of a printed manual would add another $5-$10 to the game. The fact that you still pay only $40-$50 for a game, 10-20 years later is pretty amazing to me. If you compare the value of the dollar to the price you spent on games 10 years ago, you'd realize you're getting a hell of a lot lower price now than you did then.

The only reason that cost is still low is economies of scale and the fact that publishers don't add any "frills" to the games (like printed manuals). Its not like games cost less to produce now (it's exponentially the opposite in fact!)

The jewel cases added cost as well, but that's not why pulishers got rid of them. Publishers got rid of the jewel cases because they didn't fit very well in the smaller game boxes (ironically, this was many times because the manuals were too big!) They had to have smaller game boxes because they wanted to sell games at Walmart. Walmart said, a while back, that games must come in standard-sized (small) boxes so that they can fit more on the shelves. And what Walmart wants, Walmart gets because a HUGE portion of the games sold are through Walmart and they have the games industry by the balls.

So, you can blame Walmart for the lack of jewel cases. You can blame people who won't pay $60 for a game instead of $50 for the lack of printed manuals.

OK, I just meant to a short reply, but it turned into a soapbox rant...oh well.

<soapbox rant>
I'm not sure you understand the realities of the publishing business. Shrapnel makes money because they cater to a small, very dedicated, techno-savvy niche market. They don't have the overhead of retailers and that allows them to make a modest amount of money. Yay for places like Shrapnel!

The larger game publishers spend millions of dollars to produce a game, usually. 1 in 20 (or less) make enough money to break even after the retailers take the lions share of the profits just for the publishers to have the right to sell the game on their shelves.

The larger publishers survive only because that 1 in 20 (or less) game that is a hit has high profitability for them. It's not because they make much per copy, either, but because they sell a LOT of copies (this is also why sequels are so popular - they're considered less risky when they have a proven hit in their past). The profits the publishers make on those hit games and endless sequels are what supports the other 19 (or more) games that lose money.

This is why, to me, still being able to buy a game for $40-$50 is pretty damned amazing. This is also why I will also tend to always buy games online (where the publishers and developers get a larger share of the profits) rather than from retailers because I think that online sales will be what saves the games industry and makes it so that there's still enough profit for people like Aaron to continue making a living making games that we love.
</soapbox rant>

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Modding section fills only 3 of 298 pages http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif
There ought to be the separate Modder Guide released! please... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Oh my god, this is just incredibly careless!
I would fire any person who publishes such **** (censored).
It really makes me reconsider where I shall buy SE V.
Couldn't Shrapnel get a license to sell it as does apparently Steam, and some other companies?

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

or space empires shooters. Look out Fyron. Yeah I know you're not selling it.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Well, our lawyers made sure that we had no reference to derivative works, as that is quite limiting and open to interpretation.

My guess though, with all the different versions of the EULA within the game and printed/ electronic materials that the whole thing would be 'null and void'. You can probably do whatever you want with it.

Please don't use that statement as fact, I am not a lawyer. I know that I am not a lawyer, because of the amount of money we pay lawyers each year. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Sounds like a pretty obvious case of plagiarism unless Aaron is the author.

PS:
I hate all-caps. Think of the baby Eees!

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

You mean, declare bankruptcy, again, don't you?

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

that whole derivative works part makes the statement "This game is hightly Mod friendly" that is printed on the box a little dubious.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Randallw said:
or space empires shooters. Look out Fyron. Yeah I know you're not selling it.

Well... Shrapnel would have to be the one to sue me over that, since I used graphics from the game they published (SE4 1.91). http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

Ummm, so, I guess we'd go to Canada for that???? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

I think, in the case of Shrapnel, it would have to be in Botswana.

Re: SE:V Manual Released
 

lol Botswana