SE5 AI is pathetic
 

I decided to see just how badly the SE5 AI needed work by going on an all-out crusade to crush them. No mercy, no quarter. This was in the demo, but from what I hear, SE5 Release 1.0 is the same.

Well, it took me 93 turns (most of which was spent just finding them since they rarely expanded out of their home systems!). None of them even came close to putting up a fight. They were absolutely pathetic.

Hmmm, guess I'll be busy modding if I want an even halfway interesting game http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I really hope the first patch and some of the early mods improve this...a LOT.

http://www.devnullsoftware.com/img/se5demowin.jpg

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

That's enough for me to hold off buying for awhile..

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

My view is MM didn't have time to work on the A.I.There are a ton of missing features still to be linked up.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

It's better to leave out features and work on the AI, in my opinion. There's no point in a strategy game where you can win with any strategy.

Sure, it can be fixed with mods. How many people that buy the game will come online and download mods?

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

99% of the clever ones ? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

The ones capable enough to realize the AI sucks are also probably capable enough to download mods to fix it. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

The sad thing is that the game itself has SO MUCH potential! This game can be so much better than SE IV - the engine is pretty damn cool overall.

But it's the lack of polish and the lack of time spent on the AI that might kill this game in the market.

Sure, mods will be created to fix a lot of these problems (I plan on beginning work on one as soon as I can get ahold of a freakin' copy of the !##$&@# game). Sure, Aaron will fix a lot of the UI and engine annoyances over the next few months.

But probably 75% of the customers will never see any of that. They'll buy the game off the shelf, play it a couple times and get bored with the pathetic AI or get annoyed with the klunky UI annoyances..and they'll toss the game on their shelf, never to be played again.

That's the part I find sad.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Blame the publishers SF,who yet again released a game unfinished.3+ months more development time was needed.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

who's surprised?

*doesn't raise hand*

pardon the cynicism, it just seems like the general trend for space empires is to leave AI programming to the modders, who aren't even on the payroll.

as an aside, based on the demo I've also decided not to buy, and instead lay off computer games entirely for a while. I'll still be lurking though =P

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

I am afraid, I have to second that. As much as I hail Aaron for tweaking the mechanics of SE4 until they were really good and essentially bug-free, as much it was painfully clear that he had also deliberately accepted releasing SE4 at a point in time where it was little more than a bug-riddled, early beta version. In terms of AI, it was even worse: not even today are the SE4 AIs capable of following through on their attacks or "remembering" even the most basic pitfalls (like odds in which they have already lost a dozen times before, etc.)

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

On the other side, the sooner the game is publicly released, the sooner I can work on my mod, which should then be completed by the time Aaron fix most issues.

If released in 3 months, I can only start in 3 months, and not proposed the mod when the game is finally "finished" (bug-free).

The marketing should however start big advertising not now but in 3 months, and then only fans of the series might buy the game now, however still buggy, and the newcomers will only hear about it in 3 months and buy a game "bug-free" and with several interesting mods tweaking it.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

The patch will help quite a bit. The AI is not 'comatose' anymore in the latest patch. It'll never be real competition for an experienced human, of course. But at least it will be doing something after the patch. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

What in the patch helped the AI? I didn't see anything in the notes.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

AAshbery76 said:
Blame the publishers SF,who yet again released a game unfinished.3+ months more development time was needed.

If Aaron hadn't done the exact same thing with Starfury and SE4 before this, I might be inclined to agree...

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

I'd agree that the AI in SEIV was dire as well to start with. The problem is that AI can only really be worked on when the game engine/rules are essentially set in stone - if the game balance isn't there yet (necessitating further changes) then clearly the AI is going to be some way behind.

On the other hand, how many posters here would be happy to see the release delayed for a few more months to allow for better tuning of the AI, given that modders (*salutes*) likely have more time to do a better job?

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

The game will be slightly hurt as well bc its not in the big super stores(best buy ,cc). The game is far more buggy than i expected. My feel on alot of the broken components is dont include them until they work. The worst thing is they should have NEVER EVER released this game with the state the multiplayer is in. Either that or the AI has to be good at release or what are you releasing

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Well, he never has put everything in the history file. I can't say what may have changed since I don't know the scripting language but I started a new game a couple days ago and the AI is much more active than I have ever seen it. The .CSF files are dated Oct 9th, so things in there have been changed very recently. There are actual fleets moving around. They block warp points after my scouts come through. Until recently they were actually ahead of me in certain technologies. Since I play with 'see all scores' enabled I can see how fast the AI empires are growing, too. They are expanding at a better rate than I can remember seeing before.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Well, I guess this thread sort of answers my question as to whether this game is actually DONE or not. The fact that a 'balance mod' is also so necessary after Day 1 already aroused my suspicions that the game really isnt ready for primetime.

Now, if the AI is pretty brain-dead as well, I think that is just more fuel for the fire. I've very torn about buying this game. On one hand I'd like to support it and try it out because I was a huge fan of SE3 and SE4. On the other hand I dont want to be going through all the growing pains of a beta that I have no input in. I've done quite a bit of beta testing for Matrix Games but I've been part of the process, not one of the 'pay to playtest' crowd. Paying full price for an incomplete game isnt high on my list, I guess.

Hopefully the patch will be a step in the right direction, but honestly unless I see a ton of acclaim shortly after its release, I'll probably just hold off on this title for a while. GalCiv2 was a complete disappointment without any multiplayer option. I was holding out a lot of hope for SE5. Here's hoping he gets it squared away sooner rather than later.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Actually the most recent patch fixed an error with the AI was researching items they did not have access to - that's why the script files were updated in the upcoming patch.

The AI does the following though: They will protect some of their warp points with about 6-10 ships. They'll also launch the occassional attack, with the more aggressive races being proactive about it. I would say they are certainly not building enough units right now, but that shouldn't be too hard to tweak.

One of the problems with the stock races is the way they are assigning colony types - based solely on a set percentage of a colony type desired rather than evaluated the planet's resource value first and making sure it's one of the resource colony types if the value of the planet is good. In many cases good resource planets are being waste. This was something that has already been changed in the Balance Mod.

The AI is slow on expansion because a) they are not building enough colony and explorer ships and b) they are spending too much time surverying systems (hence the slow down in processing times turns ~4-15) rather than exploring first than surverying as most humans do. By the time they get 5 or 6 systems they are bumping into other empires or singing stupid treaties that hurt their growth.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

by the way, what about the stupid treaties proposal? Is this fixed in the upcoming patch (when will it be out?) or fixed in a balance mod?

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

No AI treaty fixes in the first patch and it's on the to-do list with the Balance Mod. It's probably best done first though by Aaron since he has the best understanding of what needs to be changed. I recommended that a few functions should be thrown together to build relations in "steps". For example, the EEE might start with a non-agression and low trade treaty before maybe going for something like a trade and research deal etc. A particular AI's steps would be choosen differently depending on if they have a peaceful, neutral, or aggressive disposition.

For now I recommend counter-proposing "fair" deals to the AI when they request relations. It's a workaround, but in most cases it helps improve the current gameplay.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Wow thats uh horrid

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Ironman rules are a must at this stage with the retard A.I.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

They could have pulled a Civ 3 and make you pay an extra $50 to get multiplayer play down the road.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

i notice that most of the AIs in that screenshot are "neutrals". This means they dont expand, and generally dont put up much of a fight.

The stock AI isnt great, but it isnt awful either. in the real game, you can give the AI more of a bonus than in the demo. They will grow faster and expand quicker. Also, you can remove "neutrals"

Its still not going to be great, but whos AI is? and it will certainly be modded into better states. Even Oblivion (a huge game with many awards) is in dire need of "balance-modding"

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

Ignoring the random treaty proposal and its effects, the overall AI tactics are decent and maybe improved from SE:IV. But like I said before the problem is moreso with the construction and resource management area. This is hurting expansion, which exacerbates the resource problem further meaning fewer ships and units.

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As usual, it's really only the TCP/IP that is really bugged as usual. You can have do the usual pbw-type thing with mostly good results.

Re: SE5 AI is pathetic
 

I think they need to balance daggerfall before tackling oblivion.