More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

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http://aycu14.webshots.com/image/705...1722531_rs.jpg

I can't figure out what the AI's up to. It's been 40'ish turns without all but one or two of them building a research and/or mining/farming facility( And presumably colonizing)? That just my game, or are others having as severe AI problems( Using the Balance mod or without)?

Is the AI having troubles with maintenance costs which in turn stops him/them from expanding? I had big MC problems myself but he had even more ships and units, and presumably wasn't colonizing only 'green' planets like me, so he must have gigantic maintenance expenses. This is a 'hard' game with small computer bonus.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

The A.I spawns the most stupid treaties.The A.I empires most likely have "No research pacts" with each other.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Yeah, I'm thinking the treaties are the cause of problems like that. They're rather brain-dead when it comes to treaty proposals. In my current game they all have about the same expansion as I do.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

What kind of a pact is a "No research" pact? A pact not to research planet/star destroying tech I can understand. But all research in general? That's just plain stupid.

"Hey, let's both agree not to research any more technology, and together with our slingshots we shall rule the galaxy!"

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Ah yeah, forgot about the treaties. Since they're not expanding their resource operations they probably also have the 'Don't colonize' thingy. Don't suppose there's any quick fix for it( or an ETA for the next patch)? It's sort of game-breaking to me knowing that the AI is basically doing nothing.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Script_AI_GlobalSettings.txt has a big list of the treaty elements allowed for the AI (all of them). If you liked, you could go and take out the retard-o-vision ones (No research, no intel, no treaties with others) and recompile all the AIs and see what that does.

This would only work with stock, not the balance mod.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Ack, guess Kwok might work it out when he fixes the AI for the Balance mod.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

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Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Here's a possible use for those: When you are in a militarily dominant role, you could bully with threat of force. "From now on, you will not do any research."

It would be major cool if the ai could figure out that this is a threat, and reply according to the liklihood of win/lose military combat in their systems.

It would be even more cool if it could remember if you broke such treaties shortly afterwards and just killed em all anyway.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Well that's the way the game should work. It doesn't though because it was rushed and the AI was never properly completed. Kwok certainly has a full plate.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

The core game mechanics and the AI need a ton of work before this is anywhere near latest version of SE IV in quality. I was hoping the AI would actually be better here in SE V, but I see we're a long distance away from that point. The AI also has major problems adjusting to 'new features' such as fog of war, which creates silly pathfinding problems and sometimes makes the AI waste dozens of ships just because he can't 'remember' that I have 50 Satellites on the other side of that warp point even though he had already tried 4 times that turn to send lone colony ships through.

Let's hope there will be a pure AI focused patch in the near future.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

At this point I'd settle for any AI improvements.

Actually what I would love to see is Kwok's mod getting integrated into the stock game once he's got most of the major issues worked out. He could throw in some AI fixes to that too, and maybe make SE5 the game it should be.

If there's even a chance of that happening, I think MM would do well to fully support him in his endeavours. The two of them working together could have some wonderful results.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

The Balance Mod was actually started to replace stock SE:V, but unfortunately there was enough time before release for it to be integrated into the work already done at the time.

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The AI is not as dumb as you think though. It does remember a number that there are enemies on the other sides of warp points and it does calculate your fleet strength and the value of your systems to see if they are good systems to attack. It also remembers the things your empire commits against them and is capable of some "diplomatic thought". Their fleets do patrol various systems and guard warp points. They do designate explorers and surveyors and they will mine and lay satellites at warp points too. Unfortunately there are still some values that need to be tweaked and designs to be improved to exploit their abilities further.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

I don't know. It might look better on paper and in theory. But situations where one AI empire sends 5 seperate fleets in *one* turn with *a single colony ship* in each, even though it has done the same things dozens of times and never had a ship last more than 1 second once through, makes me think it doesn't really work right. It's not even remembering where and how it met my ships the very same turn.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

I made a mod yesterday that took out the no-research a few other treaty elements from the game. Sadly it didn't help much. The AI seems very limited in how much they expand and how many research facilities they make.

I want my money back.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Well in the UK you can probably return it under your statutory rights. The game isn't doing what its supposed to be doing after all (i.e. its AI is certainly no challenge, even on hard with 7 "allied" computers against me all of which have a high bonus).



More on topic
What would happen if the AI shared research? They can have "share research" treaties, however after an experiment I found that though I get the AI's tech, he doesn't get mine (even though it says he did). If that bug were fixed maybe the AI's really could ally together and share their research with each other.
Mind that still wouldn't help much if the AI's aren't bothering building research buildings in the first place.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

If you all recall the stcok AI for SEIV was pathetic when the game first came out. Fortunately the user community has a very active modding group that came up with much better AI's, and I would even say some "racialy diverse" AI's. This all took time though.

I have not programmed in about 10 years but I would say step one would be to take a look at what the TDM mod for SEIV had the AI doing and replicate that as closely as possible, taking into account the changes between the two games. That would be a start and the we could tweak from there. If we find that the basic code needs some changes than we will all have to e-mail Aaron with the right requests. Are the TDM guys still part of the community??

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

The design of the AI is quite different from SE:IV and it will take some time to build up more detailed functions for it, but there is a ton and potential and I predict in the next year the quality of the AI will be even better than it was in SE:IV after 6+ years of modding.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

I really hope so Kwok. I wonder if Strategy First knew how incomplete the game really was when they shipped it out.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Well pujal, there were more than enough warnings in this forum. I will probably buy it in a few months.

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Long answer: Allow me to introduce you to the concept of rushing software out of the door in time to meet the christmas period.

Short Answer: Almost definately Yes. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smile.gif

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

Which brings up the question, how do you mod the AIs?
Baron Grazic

Re: More than just \'weak\' AI?
 

It would be nice to know how the AI system really works so that we could start making flow charts of what a good AI should do. I looked at the empire data files and ended up just guessing at what did what.