Dormancy?
 

I think this post is necessary because MP is so different from SP! I am playing a PBEM game with a dormant pretender, I had found during single player play that you got to many points to not take dormancy on a pretender. However I found myself at a major disadvantage with no pretender god! So the question is, how valuable are those 150 points? I know it does depend somewhat on the race but I just wonder how the rest of you feel about dormancy.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Too valuable to pass up in my opinion. Granted, I'll admit to not having played Awake to see how much of an advantage that brings. But 150 points is three scales + dominion/magic or a bless in and of itself. to me it's too huge, especially given the relatively short dormancy period, not to take.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Depends on the pretender, nation and the strategy to be honest. It's possible with many nations to design a good scale/bless strategy to not actually need your pretender.

I guess it depends on how you spend those extra points. There's certain advantages other players will gain from having an awake pretender which you can't do anything about, but with a good design you should have advantages from those extra points that they don't.

Re: Dormancy?
 

It depends. Gem producing pretenders, like Enchantress or Mother of the Rivers, or troop producing pretenders, like the Ghost King or Vampire Queen, are nice to have awake for the gems and troops in addition to whatever else they'll be doing like researching or fighting or site searching. A lucky pretender, like The Lady of Fortune, will give you some events that can be a boost. The Great Sage will get you a couple of levels of magic by himself. Nations with bad starting armies need the help.

The points help more in the long run, but they're not everything if you're sitting on your hands and waiting.

Re: Dormancy?
 

An Awake Dragon can capture 8 provinces in the 12 turns he isn't dormant. That translates to money, resources, and gems that a dormant god wo't provide.

On the other hand, if you intend to enter a cold war situation, where your expansion is going to be curtailed by the limits of an opposing army and just stare at each other for 20+ turns while you both build up troops and technology, then the dormancy period isn't shorting you on more than maybe one province.

I think it's pretty neat that a dormant god strategy and an awake god strategy can be played along side one another and have the ultimate victor be up in the air.

-Frank

Re: Dormancy?
 

Its simple. Some nations and some strategies rely heavily on the god. Others rely heavily on the scales.

I dont consider anything in Dom to be a no-brainer. It just tends to seem that way to people who have settled into their own personal playing style. Saying that something is an automatic choice will lead to being majorly surprised in multiplayer games.

Oh yeah, and the size of the map can have a large factor. Not so much size as the formula of prov/player. On maps of 5 prov to player then a god can be more important. On maps of 10 prov per player then the waiting period isnt so much of a problem.
IMHO

Gandalf Parker

Re: Dormancy?
 

There are factional no-brainers. As Black Forest Ulm you need to have Blood and Death on your god, because the only other way you're getting your counts out is by finding Circle Masters with Dark Knowledge - and you just can't count on that.

But even then there's available strategies where your god begins in play and does the blood hunting itself to bring about the first count, and there's an available strategy where your god doesn't even come into the world until later and arrives to find a pile of girls collected by members of the second tier who can be sacrificed to form a vampire economy right away.

-Frank

Re: Dormancy?
 

You'd play Late Age Ermor with an imprisoned pretender?

I was under the impression that you had only played a very few multiplayer games.

Less important more likely, since you won't be able to build equipment or research buffing spells before enemy contact.

10 province per player maps will likely see the first capital sieges before turn 10.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Nevertheless, the size of the map is probably the major factor here.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Ya I agree, I am going to be part of a newbie game which will theoretically be 20 people on cradle of dominion http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif I am playing Oceania, any ideas?

Re: Dormancy?
 

I think the nation has a big importance too. In our cradle game the 2 players with the more provinces have an awake pretender of course, but we are also Man and Machaka. Man has his uber and cheap longbowmen, and Machaka (I) can produce lots of weaker archers per turn (their cost is only 3 ressouces... so why I've twice more troops than anybody is not a mystery). Taking an awake god allowed us to have a bigger income fast to make more archers and take more provinces with them in addition to what our pretenders take. Nations producing only heavy units can't compete with Man & Machaka before turn 10 or so in the number of provinces we can take, with or without an awake god. Later, when only provinces with heavy units will stay independant, we will have far more difficulties to expand than others and scales, magic, etc... will probably become more decisive than our good start.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Dormancy against computers seems to be a no-brainer to me, as they are often slow to attack you and you generally play on your own terms.

In a faster paced multiplayer game the dormancy can kill your research, especially in high drain dominion. I am still trying to figure out the tradeoffs of dormancy on a high drain nation, or nations with poor researchers like Yomi.

Im not sure how important it is to rush research early on, but I tried a high drain dominion with abysia (to add MR to my demonbreds because due to old age problems I use them almost exclusivly). I have a dormant god so my research will be next to nill for the first 5-10 turns. Does this put me at a significant disadvantage?

Basically, how important are those first 10 turns?

Re: Dormancy?
 

Id have to look at it but Im sure there is some strategy. If for no other reason than to make use of other people expecting the usual tactics.

But I think Ive hosted more than most. Its not that Im unaware of multiplayer games. I just dont enjoy player-vs-player games. Granted I do have much more experience in DOm games that stressed alliance.

Really? I expected you of all people to say that a large stomping god would be an advantage on small maps. Particularly with many players where the bidding for mercs is so fierce. A stomping god can be very useful for early growth.

I meant to say 10 or more. 10 is the games default suggestion for games. You are right. 10 is probably not a good dividing line for this. Im not sure how many games larger than that get played.

Re: Dormancy?
 

If you take only D2 on your pretender, you'll be waiting for three turns for enough gems to empower to D3, probably putting you at an unrecoverable disadvantage. If you don't have a pretender at all, you'll be waiting for 9 turns before you can even start to summon more than your starting commanders. Sitting around for 10 turns before you start to research or expand is a sure way to lose.

That would have been the case in Dominions 2, where you could have starting equipment built and alteration 3 researched by about turn three to actually use your pretender. Now, the only pretender that are likely to help you expand in the very early game are the monstrous types. Those are great against independent provinces, but hopeless against other nations without buff spells. A wyrm will kill about three or four F9W9 helhirdings before it gets killed. A red dragon can survive longer thanks to fire immunity, but will likely run and get slaughtered during the rout before defeating a sizable force.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Grame says:-
You'd play Late Age Ermor with an imprisoned pretender?

Gandalf says:-
Id have to look at it but Im sure there is some strategy. If for no other reason than to make use of other people expecting the usual tactics

I say:-
It is a no-brainer to play LA Ermor, Ashen Empire, with a awake pretender with D3. I think there is no other way to go MP or SP. If u did'nt u would be toast vs difficult lvl AI's in SP and utterly doomed in MP. I am playing with Turmoil 3, Sloth 3, Cold 3, Death 3, Luck 3, Magic 3 and Dominion 10. My Prince of death has D9 and 1 in various other magic skills. U have so many points to play with its hard to spend them. By turn 10 against difficult AI, I was sieging 2 enemy capitals, Caelum and Pangaea. It's great fun... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Dormancy?
 

Well, I just played vs AI with a dormant Ashen Ermor pretender. Seems quite do-able. No a great choice but possible. On a huge map, you MIGHT be able to get away with imprisoned. If you take luck, and can get 20 non death gems by turn 6, you can cast commander summons on turn 7. Not great, but since you can recruit and hire mercs fairly normally for the first few turns, it might work. And the points you can get!

Re: Dormancy?
 

You could super-push some powerful scales. Im not sure what size map or what settings for things like indepts such a tactic would work best on though.

Re: Dormancy?
 

I'm not sure what to do with those points.
What scales actually help AE Ermor anyway? Luck, maybe magic?

I played with something of a bless and an imprisoned Prince of Death. I was able to handle indies and even defeat Atlantis, just using Mercs, freespawns and reanimated Longdead Horse and Lictors. Didn't empower or do any summons. Racked up a ton of gems to use when he finally broke free.

This really just proves the AI cannot begin to handle AE Ermor. It would be sure death in MP.

Re: Dormancy?
 

Luck, yes; free gems and money are very, very good when you have very few taxpayers and a dependence on magic.

Magic... I've been inclined towards drain, for +1 MR to protect the masses, with an eye towards Skull Mentors at cons 4 for helping with the research penalty.

Mega-bless Wailing Ladies might be entertaining, if not exactly all that common in the early game. KotUS are more common but fragile.

Re: Dormancy?
 

My second pass at it went with D9E9W9, Luck 3, everything else -3. I think the drain ME does help. I couldn't get dominion 10 with that set up though.

KotUS with that bless aren't too fragile. It's hard to get them blessed with only H1 priests available. (Prophet is reanimating.)

Temples everywhere, indy priests as the only useful commanders.
I'm hoping some of the heroes show up soon. They helped a lot in my first try.

Once I break free, Skull Mentors will be a high priority.