Gate Stone
 

Greetings,

I am playing Dom3.

I have forged and tried to use the Gate Stone. I properly cast Astral Travel from the stone and choose a destination but my leader does not move. I have tried many times different leaders/destinations.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Will, this is a new incarnation of the bug, usualy it's that the commander teleports but the troops don't.

Anyway, pretty much all teleport spells, Teleport and Stygian Paths supposedly excluded, are buggy as of now.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Any teleport spells involving the moving of troops are buggy... except stygian paths I believe.
The teleport spells which are only for the commander work fine such as Cloud Trapeze and Teleport.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Is Stygian Paths fixed from Dom2? that is, does it kill 90% of your army?

Re: Gate Stone
 

Last I checked stygian paths is still broken in DOM_2.
I've heard stories where the only way you might be successful using this spell in DOM_2 is if the commander and its units are stealthy. Otherwise never use this spell in DOM_2.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Manual indicates that troops and commander face both Soul Slay and a small AN attack. Stealthy troops (not commander) have a chance to avoid the Soul Slay, IIRC.

So... high MR or stealth preferred.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Ok, note to self: payed 10$ extra for the manual, might as well use it. Seriously, why would ANY one cast Stygian Paths? MR or die? On a a death 5 mage? NOBODY can recruit death 5 mages, you're wasting either items, or empowerment, or summons, or luck randoms. Even with like mr 20, the odds of dieing are, hmm, 3%. Ok, so thats not too bad. Alright, my (D5) SCs can use it as a 15 death gem cloud trapeeze. Wheee!

Re: Gate Stone
 

You do note that it transports an army as well? Undead nations that tend to have 1000+ units spawned in home territories might want to get them to the front lines quickly, even if half of them died. (Of course - I can't recall seeing undead leadership much higher than 200-something, and having to use 5 commanders / castings, well....)

Re: Gate Stone
 

Undead, being undead, are immune to death effects, unless stygian paths specifically says it works on undead, i'd say undead are immune.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Is this still broken? I tried to use it recently in one of my MP turns and neither the commander nor the troops moved.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Easy enough to test with Boron's test map.

And - Gate Stone does nothing in 3.06 (or 3.04, for that matter).

Stygian Paths is still way too borked to use. I tried it once in 3.04 and once in 3.06 with a wraith lord + skull staff and skullface, leading 100 or so mandragoras (lifeless, mindless undead). In 3.06, all the madragoras survived and made the jump, but the wraithlord died. In 3.04, the wraithlord survived (though with an affliction: disease), *but* he was still in the starting province, while about 85% of the madragoras survived and made the jump (winding up leaderless, of course). I'm sure neither result had anything specific to do with 3.04 or 3.06, and many other random (bad) results would happen with more trials. In each case, as with dom2, the message reported that some random-looking number in the 14 millions of troops had died during the journey.

Re: Gate Stone
 

I've never tried stygian paths... I'm not sure if undead /are/ immune to the soul slay effect though. If so this might have implications on SC counters.
Anyway, if undead are not immune then sending ermor freespawn through the gate would seem pretty wasteful: their very low MR would lead to massive casualties.
Actually, for a high-research, high-path spell, stygian paths seems a bit too risky. There are plenty of obviously underpowered spells and items though... having underpowered things that add flavour and/or have niche uses isn't really a problem, I guess.

Re: Gate Stone
 

as of 3.06 Gate stone does work, but apparently only on independant commanders. (I had one on one of those nexus knights forever, and I tested in a recent game - my good troops (mages etc) couldn't use it, but a commander from an indy province could.) this may require further testing.

Stygian paths does work, but in a buggy way - when someone dies the numbers are still astronomical. I used it in one game (a lich transporting a bunch of demons) The lich died, the demons lived, and the number killed was like 1456320 but really it was just the lich. Also I had a wished for fallen angel use it once and he got through fine. (maybe demons are the only ones that make it.)

Re: Gate Stone
 

Yes, doesn't seem usefull too often, but might be your best/only option compared to the other army transporting spells:

For offensive army dropping:

• Faery Trod! Only ench5, Nature5, 20 gems. Only forest to forest. Sometimes lands in the *wrong* forest, which would have the enemy god you were trying to attack laughing his pants off.
• Stygian paths, Thaum8, D5, only 15 gems. But a non-stealthty low-mr low-hp army might die horribly.
• Astral travel, Thaum9, S5, 25 gems. No limitations.

For transport within you empire there is:
Gateway, thaum5, Astral4, 10 gems. Only to friendly labs so doesn't compete with stygian paths.

Re: Gate Stone
 

Oh man! The Gate Stone doesnt work? That makes me so sad. I love that artifact

Re: Gate Stone
 

The gateway spell does work and does not appear to be bugged.

Re: Gate Stone
 

That's a good point. I guess if you don't have astral 5 mages it might be the best option. I don't think I'll bother in SP though.

Re: Gate Stone
 

it works in the hands of an indy recruited commander.

Re: Gate Stone
 

So it just doesn't work with national troops/commanders?
Does the object work with summoned mages/commanders?

Re: Gate Stone
 

okay, I've been trying to re-create the conditions and it just aint working. Sometimes I can get it to work - but in this last game, it wouldn't work, even for indy commanders.

dang.

Re: Gate Stone
 

In my last game as agartha on the dawn, it seems it was dependent on the province. I never was able to use the stone from my capital (cave) or directly around it, but could use it from other locations both with summoned and nation sages.

Re: Gate Stone
 

I've tried it with a summoned air queen and no luck. I wasn't near my capital. Although everytime I have tried it was from in a province with a fort. Would that matter?

Re: Gate Stone
 

Great news! So it sounds like the Gate Stone only works for specific provinces. Could be only provinces with forts/castles OR Could be provinces based on the type of terrain.

Re: Gate Stone
 

i guess we should agree it is all f'ed up.

Its definately not forts. In the game where I had nexus knights, they where comming from a fort. but it was half the map away from my capitol.

in another game it was from a commander two provinces away from my capitol.

man this thing is all jacked up :/


The only similarity I can see in the games were I was able to get it to work was that I had over 4 enemies in each game.

Re: Gate Stone
 

okay further testing seems to indicate that gate stone sort of works in games started with a lot of players.

I have one I started with 8 players on urrapparround and the stone works fine (at least in an independants hands, but also in my nation-mages)

I'll attach the savegame, where its in the hands of a high magi named leric, province 98

Re: Gate Stone
 

That is one seriously wierd bug.

Re: Gate Stone
 

further testing reveals: gatestone works with as little as 3 AIs, but not 3 human opponents.

Re: Gate Stone
 

I've some problems with gate stone reported here: http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

I've no idead what the bug is. Its seems game dependents the gate stone either work or not. I will do some further tests next time and post the results here.

Re: Gate Stone
 

I have found that the gate stone works fine in a 1 Ai SP setting, if i am running my "test" mod which reduces the cost and research of wish and gift of reason - for arcosephale and kilasa. (so that I can test new units, etc.)

I have no idea if the mechanics of gate stone is somehow intertwined with these spells... but its the only 1 on 1 setting where I have seen it work,

Re: Gate Stone
 

Ok, i did my first tests.

First soulstone of the wolves is bugged in an equal matter. It seems to work in SP games like the Gate Stone but there are several problems in MP games.

First Test:
21 Human player MA game (all random nations)

Created Soulestone and Gate Stone with ermor (second nation in the list) and use it without problems.

Trade it to several nations (pythium, man, marignon, agartha, t'ien ch'i, abysia, vanheim, oceania). They all can't use the stones!

Trading back to ermor and it still works perfect for ermor.

Can't trade it to arco (first nation in the list) because arco died very early (maybe dominions kill).

Second Test:
21 Human player MA game. (all random nations)

Created Soulestone and Gate Stone with vanheim.

Vanheim can't use the stones. Trade it away to ermor. Ermor can't use it! Don't want to trade the stones to all nations so i did the next test.

Third Test:
21 Human player MA game.
This time C'tis selected as the first nation and ermor as the second, rest random.

Create it with ermor and it works, trade it to C'tis and it don't, trade it to arco (first in the list) and it don't work.


Well, i'm still not sure why it works sometimes and sometimes not. In my MP LA Marignon game the soulstone works fine but the Gate Stone not.

The only thing i'm nearly sure is that if it work: it works the whole game with several different commanders, if not: it works never whatever commander used.

More tests will follow.

Re: Gate Stone
 

calmon, besides kicking backside and taking names, you rock. This is the sort of stuff we need to get issues sorted out.

Bloody good work! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Gate Stone
 

Bug found! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

I were stupid not seeing it before. After some further tests i finally found the problem:

It all depends on your research!

If your nation researched 'Call of the Wild' (Conjuration 3) the Soulstone of the Wolves works perfect.

If your nation researched 'Astral Travel' (Thaumaturgy 9) the Gates Stone works perfect.

If not: It will not work!

I'm not sure there are other items with the same problem, maybe some further tests are needed.

However this should be in the bug list, i don't think its WAD that you've to research the spell before using it with an item.

Re: Gate Stone
 

That there thing is going into the shortlist right bloody now! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

calmon, you wouldn't happen to want the position of Chief Bug Hunting Assistant? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Gate Stone
 

Excellent work!

On the contrary!

I would say that that this was not at all an obvious dependency. I mean, maybe it would be obvious if you knew the architecture, and had access to the source code it might be obvious, but from a black box testing point of view, I think this was quite an excellent catch.

I would also say that this is a fairly huge bug, and in all likelihood you've made Johan's job a whole lot easier by tracking down the bug so specifically. Anyhow, that's just my 2 cents, but again, outstanding job!

Re: Gate Stone
 

Well done Calmon, at least we know how to use the thing now!

Re: Gate Stone
 

Strangely enough Astral WIndow from the stone sphere works regardless of research. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: Gate Stone
 

Maybe Astral Window is a special case since there are sites which give the ability?