ME Celestial Masters
 

Alright so I'm twinking around Middle Era for nations I like. I'm already decided on Shinuyama and Ryleh but seeing as how both are popular,I also wanted to try out a third. So naturally I took Tien Chi, my gosh, what are the Celestial Mages capital only? I can't find anything to do with them besides falling frost (if they're lucky enough to get the pick) or lightning bolt (again luck). Having only a base astral of one doesn't help matters either since astral nations can just stomp all your masters into the ground anyway. Wheee!! Is there anyone else with a good battle mage use for the Celestial Mages that I've missed somehow? Give them astral 2 please so theurges don't completely kick their butt ...

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Why dont you use communion? Only requires S1 and Thaumaturgy lvl 1.

2 slaves gives +1 to all paths, 4 +2, 8 +3 and so forth.
Celestial masters have a broader range of paths then the theurgs, so you have an easier acess to most of the low path required battlefield spells.

if you are afraid of magic duel, dont forget that your communion slaves gets the same buffs that your communion master gets, asuming they are in communion when its cast. So if you set a second communion master to cast Light of the northern star (or carry the banner with the same effect) you suddenly have a lot of S2 slaves that the enemy magic duelant risk of losing against, and you really dont care much about. Since the Magic duel target is random among your astral mages. Your slave mage is expendable, his is most likely not.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Good idea! I'll just use those cheap communion mages I have access to with TC now! Oh wait, there are none =).

Also I'm pretty sure magic duel has always targetted base astral, not buffed. Also Light of the North Star gives THEIR astral mages +1 as well I believe.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

MOTWS.

Okay, every 4th MOTW.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

bah, I could have swore TC had easy acces to astral. oh well :p

Pretender forging boosting items seems to be the way to get level 2-3 in a chosen path then. Or use Communion matrixes.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Hey, a Celestial Master can make a Communion Matrix. Anything could be a communion slave for ME Tien Chi.

-Frank

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Magic duel is BASE astral.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Magic Duel needs to be radicaly changed to be less lethal or die a painful death.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Also, there's Power of the Spheres. +1 to all paths. Few Communion slaves and few Powers of the Spheres, and then any boosters that those allow (Earth Power, perhaps Storm/Water Power or even Strength of Gaia)... well, still not exceptional, but better.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

I suppose that if enough boosted they could do Aim + GIFTS FROM HEAVEN! Power of the Spheres and Earth Boots/Earthpower should do just well.

Still, burning an Astral pearl to boost the paths is, well, somewhat painful.

There's that funky shield that casts that spell in the start of a battle, but I hear it has a high encumberance and costs a lot. I haven't used it since Dom: PPP where I used it once for the lulz. Kinda like Hellpower.

By the way, can Communion Slaves still cast spells?

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Crystal Shield casts Power of the Spheres to the wearer in the start of the battle. Praised be the manual!

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Yes communion slaves can still cast spells.

I have sacrificed ordinary Theurgs with Pythium recently when my MP opponent managed to kill most of my Communicants with flyers in an earlier battle. Script cast communion slave, cast spells worked.

Since it was stated that TC doesnt have much astral mages (my memory is good but short) the risk for mind duel should not really be huge for them. Simply dont bring an astral mage into battle. Communion master/slave matrixes takes care of your battlefield boost, if you want to go down that path.

Could anyone confirm if Light of the northern star gives +1S to enemy mages to? If so, it's news to me.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

All this CM gadgets are nice, bit who can spare 5 or 10 gems on every mage to make them worthwhile ?
All the way since early Dom2 I've not understood why CM where not S2...

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

The problem is TC's good, expensive Celestial Masters have 1 Astral. They don't have strong astral. They don't have cheap communion slaves. They have powerful mages who can be dropped easily by Mind Duel.

In Dom2, communion slaves would only act (cast spells, attack, whatever) when no masters cast spells that turn. Has that changed?

Again in Dom2, Light of the Northern Star (and the Banner) gave +1S to all astral mages on the field. I don't know if that's been confirmed in Dom3.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Um, so maybe Celestial Masters are NOT battle mages! They are superb site searchers and that ability combined with their massive age enables them to be empowered later on. Just because a unit does not do what you want it to do, does not mean it is bad.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Celestial masters had better be useful as battle mages, because that's all that they are good at. They can perform searches, true, but having a lot of gems does you no good if all you can do is make the easiest of trinkets and cast inner fire.

They really should probably have the same cost and start with S3 to balance them with the mages of other nations.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Yeah, but that means that MA Tien has no battlemages. =|

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Other than the Celestial Master, Tien Chi has Masters of the Way, W1H1 100% random. W2, WS, WN, AW... Tien Chi doesn't have that many options, you know.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Wouldn't S3 be a bit extreme?

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

S3 would give celestial masters about the same magical potency for the same cost as Starspawn, which aren't capital only and have a usable communion slave in the starchild.

As it currently stands, CM's can't even cast all of their national spells.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Hmmm, I suppose so.

Not being able to cast national spells isn't so drastic in the world of Dominions since there are tons of national spells that aren't very castable by nations. Like Spectral Infantry. And who ever researches Thaumaturgy as Ulm?

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Oh yeah might I add, Power of the Spheres is NOT the answer unless you have a s2 mage or ways to reduce fatigue, one power of the spheres will knock you out into unconsciousness.

S3 is actually a good answer since CM's are capital only and the only other mage option you get outside of them are those frigging masters of the ways. Seriously TC mid era just seems pigeon holed to a Consort spam strategy =\.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

What of MOTW was 1S 1W 1 random 1H? Would that do anything?

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Yes make Celestial mages nothing more than researchers since you'll be using MoTW for everything =). Currently it stands that Celestial Mages are just plain useless in almost all situations. I already use Master of the Way for my battlemages as they're easier to mass and can cast frozen hearts. Actually no wait, I take that back. I just consort spam with this nation.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

I'm pretty leery of the idea of having multipath + S3 mages. The next thing we know is a billion threads about CM's killing everything in sight with magic.

It could work though. *shrug*

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

There are several multipath +s3 mages. As mentioned, one isn't even capital only and have more durability. As for CM's killing everything in sight with magic, what spells are you exactly having in mind for this purpose once they get S3?

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Soul Slay. Penetration bonus to Mind Burn. Enslave Mind with a gem, PotS or SS. Maybe not that bad. I'm not sure to be honest.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Exactly. None of these spells come across as particularly "killing everything in sight" to me.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Well, for starters, they'd be able to actually cast celestial chastisement.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Right. I'm just pointing out, the S3 suggestion isn't as over the top as people think. I'm actually agreeing with your point =).

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Well, I suppose it's easy enough to mod.

Re: ME Celestial Masters
 

Light of the Northern Star description in the manual and in game explicitly indicates boost to all astral mages, not just friendly. Cheap astral mages without getting lucky on randoms aren't too likely until you take a lizardman province.

As for keeping them out of battle... you'd also have to keep them in a fortress, to prevent Teleport/PotS/Duelx3/Returning or similar uglineness. Even cheap Star Children would be a problem; they're much cheaper than a CM, if memory serves, and are S1 assassins, and you can't stop assassins with a fort.