Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Why did you think it would be?

Johan is doing better at note taking but still tends to do some things and forget to write them down. But unless one of the devs commented in a post then I wouldnt expect something to show up in a patch. Many of the "bugs" and "broken" items Ive seen posted didnt strike me as things that would be agreed on and worked on

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Why do you think I thought it would be?

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Because it is quite obviously broken. A capricorn that sneaks onto an enemy land province loses the ability to move out of that province. If you touch his orders at all, it changes from hide to defend, and he attacks the province without you being able to change it back.

Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.01?
 

I didn't see this mentioned on the fix list.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Yeah - essentially the entire nation is bloody broken and unplayable. You'd think that warranted a fix.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

I know it's merely a workaround and shouldn't be needed, but can't you just CTRL-move without sneaking ?

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Thats why I asked.
Is that due to poor amphib?

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Play the nation IMO. It is beyond broken. These "so called" bugs are real bugs, such as the not being able to move certain commanders that are hidden in a coastal province. And the balance issues are very real as well.

Let me restate what I said in the bug thread, I don't mean "I don't want to move the guy because he will get attacked". I mean the game does not allow you to move the guy, sometimes it glitches and switches the unit to "Defend" when you click on him, with no way to set it back to hide, sometimes you are able to set it back to hide by randomly clicking him and clicking all over the place.

Either way, I know alot of non-oceania players are viewing this externally and thinking these bug reports are just whines, but honestly, this nation is not that superhot in the water, and they are beyond horrible on land. Atleast in my MA experience of playing them multiplayer and singleplayer.

I don't think this nation was ever playtested, or if it was, wow GG.

Let me go ahead and address the scissors, rocks, paper stuff that is sure to follow this post. The people complaining about Helheim/Vanheim are not crybabies, they are doing so because there are real balance issues with those nations. I did not post in that thread mind you, but I have watched you guys dismiss their claims as them being new to the game and not understanding the nuances.

Well it is the same deal here, except this nation is at the bottom rung, and may not receive attention in an official balance patch becauce veteran players don't play the nation, yet dismiss the glitches and unbalances publicly in threads.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Yes, they are buggy. I will be addressing them, or if people would rather have a quickfix mod to do a quick replace, I could cobble one together, or PDF is also very good at those.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

A few suggestions that would make Oceania (Middle Age) a more balanced nation...

Give land form stealth to the sea form stealthers. This eliminates the mentioned problem of units getting stuck in provinces and gives them an ability that sets them apart from the other water nations. (Could be done in a mod)

Change the starting force of Oceania to all amphibious units. Under optimal settings, Oceania can be placed in a water province completely surrounded by land. This has happened to me 3 times including in a multiplayer game that I am having difficulties advancing past my starting province because of the mediocrity of the amphibious units and the fact that half my starting units are aquatic. (Once again, no core game code change here).

Oceania is in dire need of some national spells. An amphibious or aquatic summon would be awesome, something along the lines of water/nature that is a little bit better than sea dogs.

Give Sirens 10 leadership.

The above are changes I feel could help Oceania in the early game and well into the game, without unbalancing them in the least bit.

Now as a fan of Oceania, the below changes are biased desires that may or may not be balanced. (Wishful thinking http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif )

Capricorns to attract amphibious allies in a similar fashion as pangaea attracts Maianeds. Less per turn than their Pangaea counterparts, and just as mediocre.

Sirens to have air 2 in land form instead of air 1.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

The game mention theys lose stealth once they hit the land, I mean that is clearly defined right there,they LOSE stealth,so the only problem the bug should be is that they automatically attack once they move to it it.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Play the nation FFS and try it before posting. How many times do I have to repost "No one is complaining because they lose stealth on land, its the faulty mechanic that is attached to the transition".

For the 1000th time here is what happens...

The unit stays hidden in the land province even though it is in land form with no stealth. This is all fine and good unless an indepedent event or an enemy takes the province.

The unit is now hidden in an enemy province. Other stealthed units can atleast move out of an enemy province. They don't even have to sneak out, they can MOVE out. Capricorns cannot do that.

Capricorns can do NOTHING. Pay very close attention to this next part...You cannot touch your Capricorn, without risking changing his order to defend. Once his order is set to defend, the bug makes it random whether or not you can reset him to hide. Sometimes you can do it by reclicking him and randomly clicking on the map, sometimes you can't.

Once again, it is not a whine about the capricorn losing stealth, it is a faulty mechanic because he gets to hide on land even though he does not have stealth.

****THIS IS NOT A WHINE ABOUT CAPRICORN STEALTH ON LAND, THIS IS A REAL GLITCH IN THE GAME, PLAY OCEANIA AND TRY IT****

It's like you read the first line of my reply then posted.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

I should've wrote that better,but I agreed with you that it's a bug,but it's not exactly a life threatening bug like you make it out to be. How does not being stealthy on land make the nation "Broken" except for the part where you can't move them out because you thought they would be stealthy on land?

Although they should start with all amphibious units though in case of randoms little placement of them in a small lake.

And also, Cool yourself,this isn't exactly a situation which requires you to be so angry.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

I never said it was a life threatening bug (Well actually it does threaten the Capricorn's life http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ). The reason I have to keep explaining it is because people who have no experience with the bug keep quoting descriptions or making external judgement of how they think the unit works. This is usually summed up as "Oh you didn't know the stealth was water only, blah blah blah".

To address the second part of this statement, I never thought they were stealthy on land, I am saying that making them stealthy on land would fix the glitch without having to rewrite some core game code. In addition, it would give the nation an added boost since it underperforms now.



In the middle age they do start with SOME amphibious units. I agree with you on this, because I think it would give this nation some very desperately needed tiny love in the early game.

I am not angry. The voice that you attach to my text is angry. I admit to being a tad bit frustrated because your reply to my post ran along the lines of the posts I was trying to dispel with the post.

Maybe I am doing a poor job of articulating what the glitch is. My apologies for the caps in my reply, I am guessing that is what you meant by me being mad, I was just placing that there so the next person doesn't reply "Umm dude, I read half a sentence of what your saying, and like umm, those units don't get stealth on land man."

P.S., Read the other posts in the thread to find out why people think the nation is broken. The stealth thing is bugged, but not the reason people think Oceania is "Broken". Broken in this context means "Very little hope of winning with them", not "the nation crashes the game to desktop etc".

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

That and the using of FFS for my thought of you being angry,or at least exasperated.

Although I thought you meant context of the nation being broken as in unable to be played with this problem being so serious. Which is why I mentioned that I thought you meant it was a serious life threatening bug. Which I am sorry to make such a mistake.

Although as for ideas,I do hope for some more originality with this nation if it does get fixed, It looks more like an ocean man's pangeae,and I don't like nations that are almost exactly similar, Course this is just my opinion.

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

I kinda wish it played like an Ocean Man's Pangaea as far as making the Capricorns a tad bit more like the Pans, and the Ichysatyrs more like regular Satyrs. Ofcourse this is personal preference and has nothing to do with balancing the nation.

Beyond making those units play more like pangaea, I would like to see it take a unique direction as well. Currently the the unique direction is "All the units suck because the nation has the advantage of being an aquatic nation."

P.S. OH about the FFS. Anytime you see me use that, it is in an air of disebelief, never anger. Just ask the guys I am in ventrilo with when I play Dark Age of Camelot.

Me: "FFS, I can't believe I fell off that wall and now I am at 1% health" or "FFS, I should have mezzed that reaver." or "FFS, I can't believe you guys ran through that aggro!" or in this case "FFS, play the nation!"

Re: Oceanians still poor amphibs on land under 3.0
 

Yeah. I mean - Pans are stealthy, and don't become dead meat as soon as they sneak into a non-friendly province.