Infinite combat map
 

The longer I play SE V the more I get annoyed by the infinite combat map. The map can get so big you even don't find your ships in the sector view because the visible sector is so tiny compared to the entire map.
Please fix this one way or the other.
One solution would be that ships that run away and cross a certain distance get to next hex of the sytem map.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

You need to read the changelog for v1.12!

Re: Infinite combat map
 

My combats always automatically end after a chase goes on after about 10 seconds, if neither side gets any closer to the other.

One thing you can try to reposition your ships (without cheating using the sector view), is to move out of the combat sector and come back in the direction you want to appear from. This is also a good way to regroup your ships.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Note from v1.12:
12. Fixed - You can't move ships in the Sector View if enemy ships are present.
14. Fixed - Space combat now allows you to retreat if you move your ship past the circle border (and it has strategic movement points left). Retreat costs 1 strategic movement point.
15. Fixed - Space combat no longer ends when the distance between enemies remains the same or increases.
16. Fixed - The combat border is now displayed on the overview map.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I've heard folks mention before using the sector view to re-position your ships. But I haven't a clue what it means. Will someone please tell me?

I got bitten by the infinite combat map in my game today. I did three combats in a row but never caught the ship. Meanwhile, a homeworld I captured that had 4000 M population was effectively blockaed. It was quite annoying. I'm definitely looking forward to the new patch!

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Check out all the tiny icons in the System View. One of them says 'Switch to sector view' or something. Basically, it's combat view without having a combat, and you can freely move units/ships around, positioning them for battle, setting up satellites, etc.

As it stands, you can actually use this to place your ships right beside enemy ships, if combat ended with both sides still in the sector. This wont be possible with the soon-to-come patch, though. Exploit, obviously, but necessary with the unlimited combat area, which will also be fixed in the patch.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I do like the idea of infinite combat area, but the system just needed some tweaks to prevent gameplay problems.

The retreat option sounds good but I wonder if the AI will use it? It sounds to me like it is optional, not a forced retreat. If it's not optional then it effectively negates infinite combat area. Problem is, if it is optional then it still leaves the system open for exploit.

After all, what's to stop a player from flying past the border and just choosing not to retreat? Without the automatic end of battle, it'd all come down to which player chooses to retreat first.

This wouldn't be an issue if pursuing ships would not follow retreaters too far past the combat border. At some point, they turn back and return to the fleet/planet/etc. Then, if the fleeing player chooses to retreat, it moves him out of the sector normally, but if he chooses not to, it leaves his ships where they were and ends the combat. Either way, the defending ships return to thier original positions. He could then choose to attack again, but would not be able to exploit the tactic in order to pull defenders away from a target.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I suggested to Aaron that all ships be returned to the positions they had before combat once it ends, if the enemy retreated/was destroyed. This would also make defending warp points and such with ships a whole lot easier. Gets tiresome relocating them after each attack.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

With an infinite combat map and no exploits being abused, then any ship with fully functional engines deciding to run away results in you being simply screwed.

The map expands to absurd sizes, and you get things such as 100 megs of combat replay with no shots being fired.

Raapys:
That sounds pretty good. Multiselect on the sector view would also remove the hassle. (Grab the whole fleet, move them as one back to the warppoint, then fiddle the individual positions without need of scrolling)

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I think ships crossing a certain border should be transferred to the next hex automatically, not by choice. But that brings up the problem with ships retreating and being moved in the system view map without actually having any movement points left.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Good news but only if the retreat is compulsory.
If the ship to retreat has no strategic movement points left you might allow the retreat anyway but give it some form of punishment like the destruction of one engine (It was running for its life so an engine was overcharged).

Re: Infinite combat map
 

And just don't even think about level 20+ repulsor beams http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Now you really can knock that attack fleet into next week. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Infinite combat map
 

If you are going to allow the combat map to infinitely expand, then it is necessary to modify all the combat code to incorporate the following:

First, defer combat until forces from all surrounding hexes have committed to the battle.

Second, forces entering from different hexes should be placed according to the hexes they entered from.

So, you either use a limited combat map. Or, you alter the combat code to allow 'englobing' attacks. Pick whichever is easiest to implement. :-)

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Firstly, not only would that be way too complicated, but it would be impossible in simultaneous multiplayer games since players can't make decisions during other players' turns.

Frankly, I think my solution is the best one. Defending ships simply return to where they were if the enemy goes too far, and everyone's happy. There's no exploit since the attacker has to come back in order to start another combat, and every time they attack it would cost them movement points (and supplies). You wouldn't have immense combat maps either since this would all naturally keep the combat within a reasonable area. You could even throw in a rule that any ship can't attack again in the same turn if they retreated once during that turn already if you really want to cut down on combat log size.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I think you could leave things mostly as they are if you charged supplies for movement in tactical combat. This solves many problems with one fix. (The amount used would be moddable, of course.)

Re: Infinite combat map
 

If a ship has enough supplies to fly halfway across the galaxy, imagine how large that would make the combat map before it runs out.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

I'd like to see each ship have a pool of combat movement points based on its remaining strategic movement points. Then deduct strategic points from each ship after combat.

I'd also like to see that if combat lasts x amount of time it pauses to allow the next movement tick to take place (simultaneous games only.)

Both of these would probably require way too much additional coding but maybe SEVI? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Infinite combat map
 

It already does.
That's what the combat maximum time is all about.
Its either 4 or 5 minutes by default

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Doh! Yeah it sure does. Guess I was thinking too narrowly to see the obvious! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Plus it ends under certain other circumstances, though the 2nd patch may have changed that.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

On Monday, I played a few minutes under the new patch. It was cool to see the AI ships retreat from the combat and actually move on the strategic map in the direction they retreated. After one combat where the AI ships retreated, I moved some ships up to some of the AI ship escape points. It was really rather cool watching the AI ships run along the edge of the map to find a retreat point where I didn't have ships.

I haven't tried it yet. But I'm hoping fighters will be able to block all the retreat points. If that's the case, then I may start including room for five fighters on some of my ships so I can launch the fighters to prevent the AI escape. That should work, shouldn't it?

Re: Infinite combat map
 

You would need six. Otherwise the enemy ships could circle around and retreat to the hex you came from.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

Right! Hex map sorta implies six sectors around each one. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Thanks. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Infinite combat map
 

You are assuming that engines work the same in combat movement as they do in strategic movement. One does not have to make that assumption. Cars get a certain MPG highway, but much less MPG city. Anyway, by having ships use some supplies in combat movement, it would hinder "blockade by fleeing." The new patch makes this discussion mostly moot, but I can already think of ways to exploit the new retreat system.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

It's sci-fi, the rules are about as malleable as wet clay. You can pretty much explain just about any gameplay-centric fix with a sci-fi explanation without too much effort. The focus should always be gameplay first.

In most sci-fi, ships in combat use thrusters or a sublight mode of thier engines rather than thier high-power long-distance engines (you don't constantly warp from place to place in Star Fleet Battles). These engines or modes could have a different fuel supply or a different system for burning supplies. However, using the SFB comparison, there is the potential to mod the game to include special abilities in combat, such as a one-shot "Picard maneuver" or somesuch... This would reflect a different system being used for long-distance travel than for combat, but allowing the system to be flexible enough that the rules can be bent a little in order to add a little something extra to gameplay.

Re: Infinite combat map
 

That's how moo3 did it