SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

http://www.somethingawful.com/index.php?a=4235

Scroll on down about 2/3 of the way... look, if you consider SomethingAwful "mainstream", SE5 is getting some mainstream recognition, even if it's not in the least positive http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Obscurity can be better sometimes http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

"Unfortunately, you cannot strategically defeat game-crippling bugs, no matter how far along in the tech tree your research brings you."

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I feel sick... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/Sick.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Looks like an accurate review to me.

The metacritic summary of reviews so far:

http://www.metacritic.com/games/plat...pace%20empires

The user ratings look like typical rent-a-shill comments because even the biggest fan of the game would say it's anything but a train wreck at this stage.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Yup.

I had a great time with SEIV and was eagerly looking forward to SEV. The developer here has made a mind-bogglingly ill-advised move to release the game in this condition. Let's hope it's not fatal to the SE line.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Fright: we get that you don't like SE5. Why are you still here, again? You can be critical of a game without resorting to crap like "rent a shill". Some people have a rather higher patience than others with bugs and UI glitches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Actually most of the critic's reviews are spot-on, with the exception of the Gamesradar one. (seriously. If your biggest SE peeve is the micromanagement, and that games take too long, you're reviewing the WRONG game. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif)

Did anyone ever find out what was up with the 80% that turned into a mid-60%?

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Seriously, 80% is WAY too high for a game in this condition, regardless of any potential.

Is anyone here actually going to argue otherwise?

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Not really. I'd sit it around 70-75 myself. Like I said, some places are more forgiving of bugs than others, and UI, while painful, isn't a death blow.

should point out that I haven't had more than a few of CTD bugs or other game-ending crap to deal with..that does color things a bit. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I've not really had any game-breaking events. If it wasn't because of the combat slowdowns in turn processing with the latest patch, I'd probably give it about 75-80% with the Balance mod right now: the remaining issues for me are the UI, AI and fog of war issues.

However, as long as the slowdowns remains I really can't get myself to sit down through the long waits, so I end up playing something else most of the time. Hoping for a quick fix from Aaron.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

DingBat said:
Let's hope it's not fatal to the SE line.

SE didn't die when SE4 was released early in a mind-bogglingly buggy state, though it had no retail market to contend with...

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Here, here! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/cool.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I get the impression that you're calling him a troll, but at the same time I don't think it's warranted.

You're not the only poster on this forum with that mentality. I feel, however, that more people (and I do not believe this microcosm to be representative of the space 4x buyer base) will fall into your lower patience threshold than we'd like to admit. I'm pretty confident in that assertion. I also think that Aaron needs to make games that tailor to more people than those of us that believe in the potential of the game, but I'm kinda going out on a limb to say so with my limited experience. I think releasing a solid game would do wonders for MM.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Actually I was referring to the two user reviews he was complaining about, not myself. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif I'd knock off about 15 points between the UI and the bugs..

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Ok we get it. 1.13 is playable though and a new patch is due out in less then 2 weeks, why are these threads still alive?

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Ya ok, and of course you know that the developer is one man working at home with no income to support his efforts right? You will excuse me for passing judgement upon your opinion in that I think, as is my opinion, that given what Aaron had to work with, he did make a very fine game.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

What does being a one man show have to do with waiting until a game is stable before releasing it?

You know, I actually have no problem with someone making a business decision to release a poor quality product. What I do have a problem with is not informing the consumer that they are taking a chance when purchasing said product. Aaron made a business decision. Unfortunately, he withheld information that would have allowed me to make an informed consumer decision.

Being a one person shop has nothing to do with quality. I would, instead, observe that being a one person shop should, perhaps, reign in the design a bit. I would have preferred fewer, but completed, features to the current plethora of half-completed features. Rather than issue patches after release, he could have released new upgrades with those missing features.

As I said, I think it was an ill-advised move to release the game in this condition. The true believers will obviously stick with the game, whatever the condition. I just hope that stalwart group doesn't find itself shrinking with each release.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

There was the demo for one thing... The there was all the talk of bugs by people playing the demo even if you didn't play it. Then there are reviews. Many ways for you to find out about a product before you purchase it.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

With all the bad reviews and a "House Divided" here on this site. We will just have to wait to see if poor sales forces SF to pull the product. SF's in business to make money. Lost revenue to poor sales due to bad reviews can be enough to kill the product. Keep in mind that not all the customers frequent this site and don't have the patience to wait for patches. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Have you looked at SFI's back-catalog? Compared to most of those games even 1.00 SE5 is a perfect little gem. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Maybe that's why people stay here at this site, better games? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

SFI's definitely an odd publisher, and I'm really not sure what MM got out of going to them. I haven't seen SE5 on the shelves at all, for example..

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I've seen it at The EB games just down the street from me.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I've seen it at EB Games too.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

DingBat I will bet money that you never even bought the game.


Edit:
I posted something that I would not normally have posted because I became angry at the comments of another poster. I had no call to call that poster ignorate or otherwise.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Enough money to continue development (according to at least one interview).

Speaking of odd, can anybody explain to me why attempting to load that Metacritic site would cause a soft reboot?

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Any time a web site causes a soft reboot means web site bad!

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Er, wow. Such hostility. Nice.

I suppose it's not that surprising that a guy with 13k posts on a forum is going to be a fanboi, but you might want to consider toning it down, just a tad.

I've purchased plenty of games lately that have worked quite well out of the box. I write software for a living and have actually witnessed releases that are virtually defect free. You clearly have no experience in this area. But that's not the point.

But, here are a couple of interesting points:

1. What does the record of other developers who release shoddy games have to do with MM? Why do you even compare them?

2. Why do you feel compelled to defend MM in the first place? How would you have suffered if the release of SEV had been postponed until it was more stable? Your supposition that releasing it early has been a good thing because it flushes out bug reports is truly bizarre. What are beta testers for?

3. I've seen many product releases in my day. Releasing a product too soon, in an unstable condition, is almost never a good idea. It's hard to measure the impact on customers, which is why a lot of companies do it, but it does affect future sales and it is difficult to fix.

4. You seem to feel that pointing out these things is akin to an attack on the game and the developer. Not true. People don't raise issues with games they don't care about. They raise issues with games they want to play. SEV is that game, but right now, it's broken for me. Again, I'm not exactly sure why you've appointed yourself defender of the faith here. I'm sure the developer is a big boy and can defend himself.

5. Your comments on "dilibrate" ignorance and a kick ban policy are truly stunning. How old are you?

Look, there's a simple way never to have to hear anything negative about a game you like:

a. Encourage the developer to release the game in good condition.
b. Don't read game forums.

Otherwise, you're out of luck. Who's being clueless now. Perhaps you can kick ban yourself.

Have a nice day.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Atrocities - I think your response is far out of line with what Dingbat has actually posted...

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

...especially since a lot of what Dingbat posted was accurate and correct.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Atrocities has probably just had a short day; especially since this is out of character for him.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I was out of line with my previous post. I had not right to attack his opinion. I have removed the post and offer an apology. My hostility was a gut knee jerk response and not one that I am proud of.

I am going to stand by my comment that I believe that you never bought the game. And I don't want to be baited into a debate over our differing points of view.

However you do ask some good questions and do promote one to think a bit, never the less, I have already acted rudely enough for one day and don't want to repeat that behavior. So while your questions are valid, I don't want to address them today. Again I was out of line with my post and do apologize for my rudeness.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I don't really enjoy being called a thief, but I agree we should both step back a bit. If you're interested, I've attached a screen shot of my steam console.

But I do accept your apology.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Well there go, making a jerk out of me in classic style. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif It was not my intention to make you think I was calling you a thief. I have just become very warry of people who post comments about the game. A significant number of them have only played the beta or haven't played the game at all and I am sorry to say that I wrongfully grouped you with them.

Like I said, your comments were valid and I had no reason to spout off like I did. I am the jerk here not you. Please accept my sincere apology. If you don't I will understand.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

We'll set up the spanking machine for Atrocities later.

We're all a bit miffed and puzzled as to why SE:V was released in the condition that it was. But, on the upside, several patches later, many things have been fixed.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I have a question I would like to ask, but before I do I want to make it known that I haven't bought the game yet because it hasn't arrived at any stores where I live and I will not buy it using steam and I already have Starfury so I won't be buying it from Strategy First.

I have read a lot of people trying to justify SEV being released in an unfinished state by saying that SEIV was released in a similar state (at least that's my take on it). My question is if both games were released with a lot of bugs then why did SEIV generally produce higher review ratings than what SEV did? Example Gamespot gave SEIV an 81 and only gave SEV a 66. I think there might be something wrong with SEV that goes beyond the bugs and bad UI, I could be wrong and people are less tolerant of bugs than they were 6 years ago.

I will eventually purchase the game when it reaches the stores in my area knowing that there are a lot of dedicated and talented people creating mods and fixes for this game.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

I suggest getting it from ebGames. It comes with SE4 free, which did me no good since I already have SE4, and StarFury, and SE3, and SE2� Ah poop! I play this game WAY to much. At least they dropped it off at my door which was better than running out to the store. As for the differences in reviews I haven�t seen the article for SE4 you mention but some to things to consider are:
1. SE4 was not mass marketed to the shelves so it drew less fire at release time.
2. Since it drew less fire the review you mention may not have been written until after several patches had been released.
3. SE4 did not have to contend with 3D, it is 2D.
4. SE4 was not �real time� combat, it was turn based.
5. To me SE4 was more of an evolution of SE3. SE5 is more like a new game, especially when you get under the hood and start trying to mod this beast!

Just food for thought. As I remember it when SE4 came out I couldn�t even get it to run. I had to email Aaron with my system specs for help.

Edited in: Double POOP! I just found my copy of SE1! What kind of a sick-o am I?

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Make sure you weren't reading a review of SE4 Gold, for one.

For two, SE4 was just as buggy/weird, but its bugs were a bit different. Less crashing, more game-breaking: ground combat continuing after a victory, dumb AI, losing value when looking at the Empire Report screen, stuff like that.

SE5 shouldn't have been released when it was, but I'm still happy I got my hands on it then. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Demorve said:
I have read a lot of people trying to justify SEV being released in an unfinished state by saying that SEIV was released in a similar state...

It wasn't justification, so much as just saying that MM has a history of releasing early. It was annoying then, annoying now.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Someone should have asked Aaron why he chose to allow SFI to release the game early knowing that this would be the response. Hell I would enjoy knowning why the game was released in the state that it was released in. I think we would all be a bit less disenfranchised if we knew the reason behind the decision. But then again its really none of our business. But still it would be nice to know.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Aren't all games released early for one simple reason: money? No more money to fund development, need a cash infusion asap for whatever reason. The usual "budget, quality, time - choose two" paradigm, and some can manage the three better than others.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

AT: Do you have any evidence that SF1st forced a release? It was my understanding that Aaron Hall chose to release it then...

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Good call on Defcon.


As for my rent-a-shill comments - I stand by them. Who posts a review virtually on release day saying SE5 is the best game ever? Who defends a comment like that?

And I'm still here because I'm a longtime fan of Space Empires that considers SE5 unplayable and I'll probably stick around here responding to the stupidity I witness until the game gets fixed enough that I can eff off and play it. So yeah, there's an incentive to fix the bugs.

And I still see nothing but apologist propaganda from Atrocities and Fyron. Hey, fair enough maybe the multiplayer doesn't suffer from the same problems the SP does. Then yesterday I popped into a thread proposing workarounds for the broken multiplayer. And there's an (almost?) empty SE5 opponents seeking opponents sub-forum which is a testimony to that end of the game in itself.

And I don't care if Aaron is a club-footed orphan coding in braille - the transaction is simple. I give him money, he gives me a game. If this is a hobby for him then stick the project on sourceforge and let the community fix it. If he's trying to make a living, just like the rest of us, then don't do shoddy work.

EDIT: I mean really some people seem to forget that you can go into EB and pick this product up off the shelves (in the far unlit corner of the store furthest from the door, with the rest of the PC games) take it to the counter and pay for it. When you get it home are you going to be reassured that it'll get fixed in time if you've no knowledge of the previous games or are you going to throw it in the pile of games you wished you'd waited for a review for. And that's besides the point that one of those metacritic reviews (a site I only ever visited because it's used to rate the games on Steam - check out the Steampowered forums to see what I mean about truly uninformed opinions of the game! They're not kind.)is in the 80s, bizarrely.

Who's even struggling on with 1.13? I can hack the combat time limit, ignore the broken boarding and put up with the UI (which I AM actually getting used to. That's not even much of a concern for me now - the TZN? tiny flag mod helps a lot.) but am I playing a fun game? No.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Holy [censored] I am so tired of people. Yes SE5 was released in a bad condition. Currently I don't play the game outside of modding so I am ready for the day SE5 is playalbe for me.

Please shut up, we know SE5 was released in a crap condition. No one made you buy it the way it is, you could have waited for patches. Don't tell me you didn't think the game would be like it is after the demo. If you bought the game without playing the demo or reading reviews you are a moron. It was quite clear SE5 would be a bugfest on release. Please stop turning threads into these complaining sessions.

'nuff said

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Ahhhhh! Sometimes people just need to "vent!" If it helps them move on, then let it be and enjoy the reading!!! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

This is a great line, so what you are telling me is that you came here to blast the bugs and will leave when the game is fixed. And that is somehow equal to saying: �I came here to attack people and vent my frustration over having spent my money on a game I don�t like and Atrocities and Fyron are the targets I picked.� Because that�s what I�m seeing!
Besides crying here is going to fix the bugs how? You think I have a direct line to Aaron? Here let me pick up the Hall Phone� <ring>�<ring>�.

Am I the only one that sees this? Frightlover you have been on the attack and even gone so far as calling two members here complete dicks. Now you add this to the fire?

And don�t forget the Complete Dicks comment too.

And don�t defend yourself here by saying �He started it�! Atrocities wasn�t even talking to you unless you�re Dingbat too. Even then Dingbat accepted his apology! Which Atrocities made of his own free will to display his maturity, a maturity you apparently lack!

I�m sorry!?! I didn�t know it was my fault for YOU not making an informed purchase. Obviously it is my fault since you are here �only to respond to the stupidity you witness�; to paraphrase you that is.

Here�s an idea you seemed to have missed, STOP PLAYING. I think it�s about time you take your show on the road! I can�t speak for the other members here but I for one am pretty tired of your insults and unprovoked attacks!

And I really don�t care if you add me to your �Poop list�!

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Amen to that brother!

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

frightlever said:
And I still see nothing but apologist propaganda from Atrocities and Fyron.

Get a life, kid.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

"And don�t forget the Complete Dicks comment too.

And don�t defend yourself here by saying �He started it�! Atrocities wasn�t even talking to you unless you�re Dingbat too. Even then Dingbat accepted his apology! Which Atrocities made of his own free will to display his maturity, a maturity you apparently lack!"

Atrocities never did anything to me personally to warrant an apology so that's a non-issue. I said he was a dick to the community. That's a personal attack on a non-personal attack. He can't help himself but you're all pussy-footing around like he has a clue. If you want to take patience lessons from obsessives then good luck to you. The fact he made a personal attack on Dingbat just shows he's as "bad" as I am. The fact he apologised shows he didn't believe what he said. I do. I have no use for people telling me this game will be fixed if we just sit back and wait.

Shang, I got no problem with you. You're pissed off with me which is fine, but you're doing the game no disservice. Atrocities and Fyron are. I'm willing to engage other people at an adult level if they're not deluding themselves.


And Fyron, the kid thing... poor... I wish... poor... go explain how all the ills of SE5 can be solved with nothing but other software and adult education classes. Bless.

EDIT: Oh. And "get a life" from the guy with 17k posts. Irony. Look it up.

Re: SE5 gets some... \"recognition\"
 

Mostly because I'm bored, here's a short cross-section of Fyron's posts from the last week.

-answering question about ques
-saying MM picked the release date, has a history of releasing buggy games then fixing them later
-comments on Balance mod, including complaining about the stock balance
-defending Dingbat from AT's deleted comment
-where SE5 has been found comment
-comment on maximum ranges
-noting that you can't add new data-file fields
-asking people to be patient about modding docs
-request for modding feature, explanation of how modding works, event help
-complaining that SE5's save files are too large for easy MP, repeatedly
-torrent of the 2nd patch
-release of Adamant mod
-asking what features were cut, to Thorfrog
-imagined drama comments
-comments about the beta testers, including the note that he doesn't PLAY SE5 much because he's unsatisfied and the game needs work
-comments about the UI
-comments on chat timing, Steam updates
-comments about hot-keys

I didn't see any kissing up, fright. I'm inclined to think you presume anyone who doesn't agree completely with you is a fanboy.