Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

So I have been updating my worthy heroes mod for dom 3 and I have combed through all the units and fixed most old age issues and improved some of the less interesting new heroes(ape oracle anyone?) .

But I also want to give each nation a multihero unit, i. e. one that can appear multiple times, like the master of the games, so the luck scale hero effect never really runs out.

Right now I have only added 5:

A master ninja for Jomon, generic members of the third tier for late ulm, oreiads for middle arco, eagle kings for middle caelum and yakashas/yakshinis for Patala.

The following nations really need some heros since afaik they get none, or only 1. The list is from memory, so probably incomplete:

early age:
Oceania: 0
Early Atlantis: 1
marverni: 1
kailasa: 1
ermor: 2, but one is crappy by design
agartha: 1
abysia: 1
vanheim: 1
helheim: 1
R´lyeh: 1


middle age:
oceania: 0
shinuyama: 1


late age:
atlantis: 1


Ok those are all with a really low amount of heroes, that I can remember right now. So if you have some good ideas for suitable multiheroes please let me know. If you have good ideas for single heroes I will implement those as well, even though they can´t get an unique name.

So help me bring more heroes to dom3 http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Early Atlantis has a hero?

EA R'lyeh: Great Polypal Mother as multihero? Or perhaps some Venerable Mindlord or somesuch.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

An easy way of coming up with heroes is to think about the strata of society not represented in the normal recruitable commanders. If the "highest" commander available to a nation is the equivalent of a prince or a high priest, try making a "king" or an "angel" hero. You can also take normal elite units, trick them out with a sweet mount or special powers and *bam* instant hero. I also find myself thinking about movies I've seen that are related to the nation at hand and drawing heroes from the characters. Humor is also great for heroes if you can think of a fun champion.

How about some sort of mage or monster having to do with a solstice or equinox for Marverni?

Agartha could use an intelligent troglodyte knight.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

A commendable endeavour! While you're at it, could/can you fix some inconsistencies? Like, MA Mictlan has apparently the same heroes as the other Ages, and that means they have blood magic which doesn't make sense for all of them. For the King of Legends it's probably alright since he's a relic from another time, but the eagle priest is a contemporary and thus shouldn't have blood magic. Was there a third hero? I can't remember... Indeed, how do you view the heroes of each nation in an easy way?

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Well my way of viewing the heroes of each nations was to start a full game with luck 3 pretenders and let the game run on 1 minute quickhost for a couple hundred turns and stop and check in every 30 turns . Of course ageing means that some heroes can die while you aren´t looking, but I think I caught them all.

I then updated my heroview map to include the new heroes.

@zepath: what´s a solstice or equinox? Good idea with the trog knight and the king/angel heroes.

@ Jurri: I will probably get around to dealing with the inconsistencies, but right now I want to focus on creating heroes and not removing them http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif .

@nerfix: I thought early atlantis gets the holy 2 priest, at least that one would make some kind of sense. How would the poly mother hero be different from the current mothers, or the pretender version? And how would a venerable mindlord be different to auuluudh?

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Hmm, you're correct, they would be kind of dull. Maybe gigantic Giboleths or something? o.o;

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Please share it! I can check those inconsistencies for you, then http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

I´ll share it later. I don´t have access to the internet from my home at the moment.

Some questions:
1)Can you simply copy the sprites from a monster without getting any stats? I tried copying the sprites from the aboleth mother pretender for the new early age r´lyeh multihero, but it copies the stats too and I can´t give the new hero sacred status anymore or the game crashes.

2) Has anyone actually ever seen an early or middle age atlantis hero? I have let the game run for 1k turns now and no hero showed up in middle age, so I guess they are bugged.

3) Has anyone ever seen deepthought the early age agartha hero? I have let the game run for 500 turns with luck 3 without him showing up.

4) Would anyone be willing to draw or modify a couple of sprites for the new heros? I absolutely suck with graphics and it would be nice if the heros looked slightly different.

LA Atlantis...
 

Mmm, fun theme.

Maybe a highly skilled hunter / scout, with wasteland survival, good stealth, a supply bonus (hunting prowess), and maybe even a good patrol bonus (tracking ability)? Or make him unique, with the assassin trait, grimly hunting the enemies of his awakening god much as he'd hunt down seals.

Another idea would be an aged hero or heroine from the war with R'lyeh, thirsting for vengeance (perhaps even berserk), with higher MR than normal (that enabled him or her to hold out better against the mindblasts) -- perhaps a Mother Guard-type, high morale, decent skills.

There are also some legends involving shaman shapeshifters -- polar bear and seal forms being prominent.

Re: LA Atlantis...
 

I really like the vengeance vs R´lyeh hero idea. I´ll probably make him a former slave that broke free.

Assassin hero sounds good too.

Re: LA Atlantis...
 

Prince Consort/Traitor Prince mismatch armor, perhaps a size up from them. Very intriguing idea indeed.


EDIT:

#copyspr is different from #copystats, and #clearpath or something (undocumented ) removed pretender availability, so you should be able to take Polypal Queen's sprite and/or stats both.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

I know there's a Vanheim hero which needs an improvement. His only good quality is a high beserk rating, otherwise his normal life, normal stats and low magic resistance make him virtually worthless.
Perhaps he could be given one or more of the following:
add 5 more hitpoints
add 5 more magic resistance
setup the hero as sacred
add some type of resistance
or some other feature(s)


The beserker trait is sad for a unit with such low life because the beserk trait needs either a magic item, nature mage or a strike in battle to take effect. Vanheim receives very very little nature from mages so not much luck here. The magic items to set him as already beserk either provide terrible protection or will turn him to a werewolf thus losing his beserk trait or one unique which is unlikely to be obtained in multiplayer and getting struck in battle can mean death or battle afflictions.

Anytime this hero shows up I would gladly trade him for 100 gold... so please improve him.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Thanks for doing this, it was my favorite mod from DomII!

Is there an easy way to make a mod that gives each nation a hero to start the game with?

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

This is a not really needed review of heroes for LA ermor (Last game got them all...) just posted to give some comment there, feel free to ignore it.

Ermor LA has 4 heroes:
- Shade King: Tenebrus is the king of the Shade Lands, the dark waste between the Underworld and the lands of the living. Through his kingdom all dead must pass. When the Soul Gates opened, he answered the call and led his armies through into the lands of the living. Shades and Shade Beasts will sometimes spontaneously appear in his vicinity. Tenebrus is an unholy priest and can summon Shadows and Dispossessed Spirits to his service.

Middly useful, ethereal level 2 priest. Similar ones (minus free shades & shade beasts) can be called by 20-25 death gems. Not much tweaking required.

- Forgotten King: Alcastos was the last priest king of an ancient nation that had fought Ermor. When his kingdom was crushed, he was brought to Eldregate as a prisoner. He swore to serve the Emperor and tie his kingdom to the Empire, but before he could return from the Holy City he witnessed the cataclysmic events that destroyed the Empire. Alcastos was cursed to serve the Ashen Empire in death as he vowed to do in life.

Good one, level 3 priest. A bit weak in the combat side so maybe a few +1 will help him.

- Wraith Lord. Etimmu is a Wraith Lord who once lived in the land of the Sauromancers. He learned their secrets and used them to establish a kingdom of terror in a distant land. He gave himself the title of Priest King and made his people worship him as a god. Etimmu used his dark powers to summon Black Servants to aid him. The temples, the towers, and the palaces were all filled with walking Shades. Etimmu and his servants were finally slain by Udum'ukinna, the son of Ekishnugal, and his Sauromancers. Etimmu's blighted kingdom is still known as the Shaded Lands. Etimmu was given further powers and immortality by the King of the Underworld. Etimmu rides a horrible, flayed spectral horse into battle.

Better than the summonable ones (Worth 40 death gems), good death magic (3 IIRC) medium priest(2). Fear, Immortality and a bane blade gives you really funny times.

- Arch Censor, Caractor was the highest ranking Censor at the time of the Ermor's fall. As Arch Censor, he was responsible for keeping a sharp lookout for corruption among the mages and priests. As punishment for failing this task, the curse struck him harder than his servants. Horrible pain now distorts his dried face and his dead eyes burn with hatred for the living. His physical strength is tremendous and his leathery body is tough as wood.

Not so hot one, better than normal censors... low power thug. Maybe he needs a couple improvements here and there (+1 to some stats, +1 to his cold aura or maybe some magic default battle axe/equipment...)

You can translate all those heroes to a death gems price (need to summon its base unit or a similar one)... so each time you get one its like a 15-50 free gems.

IMHO LA Ermor heroes are ok and maybe only need minor boosts (if any). A lot of nations gets way worse ones.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Late Era Atlantis hero:
-------------
Kane the Wanderer (human)
Chain mail, broad sword
Magic: 2B 2D
Hp: 20
Strength: 15
Base attack: 15
Base defence: 15
Cursed
Immortal
Fear(0)
Leadership: 120

Little is known about Kane's origins. He is a powerful, left-handed man with red hair, said to have killed his brother and been cursed by a mad god with an eternal life of wandering. Kane is an excellent warrior and an accomplished sorcerer, who spends the millennia wandering from one adventure into the next. He is marked as a killer - very few people can look him in the eye without qualms.
Kane is unconcerned with common morality, since no human relationship can ever last more than a small fraction of his lifetime and he frequently ends up on the wrong side in the conflicts in which he involves himself, often to his own detriment. The hero is weary with his own immortality and attempts to give his existence a meaning.
----------------
Please ! I've been thinking about modding him myself. He really fits late Atlantis. Should I explain ? I'll gladly do !

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Hmm unique names aren´t really possible and you can´t mod in cursed afaik.
I find the hardest part of creating the hero is writing a description, which doesn´t sound too much like cliche fantasy, so please explain http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif .

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Bloodstone
Dark Crusade
Darkness Weaves
by Karl Edward Wagner

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kane_%28fantasy%29

My favourite book would be Darkness Weaves, but it's Bloodstone that really makes Kane fit. Kane is trying to take over the world using a strange artifact (AI) of elder civilisation (the Bloodstone). It is located within ruins inhabited by degenerated members of the civilisation. They look remarkably frog-like and posess great strenght. Kane ends up subduing them and using them as an army.

So, basically, Kane would show up in late Atlantis pursuing his own goals and schemes.

Maybe it's just me, but I really enjoyed the novels. In any case, read them. The athmosphere is so thick and dark it's comparable only with Hexen (game).

For other lovecraftian references, read Darkness Weaves.

If you don't put him in, you'll break my heart.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Oh, I thought you alluded to Kain the brother of Abel. That one would fit in as a LA Marignon hero.

Cursed isn't an ability, it's something that happens during the game. It can't be modded, and no creature starts with it AFAIK.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

That sucks. I can think of plenty of units, commanders, pretenders starting with curses, or horror marks. Some tartarians, various warlocks and renegade wizards dabbling in forbidden magicks, pretenders cursed in past millenia, and heroes of course. It would add a lot of flavour.
If it's possible for an unit to start with affliction, why disallow curses and horror marks ? Curses and marks make even more sense, because they can't be removed, so they're essentially like stats.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Here are my ideas for LA Atlantis heroes:
Ka-ha-si
"This is the story of Ka-ha-si, a hero from the time before the Atlantians were reunited. At this time, many of the tribes of ancient Atlantis were few in number and separated by long distances. The future was far from certain, and just finding enough to eat and a home to come home to was the most important thing imaginable. Ka-ha-si was a lazy child who was always sleeping. The other Atlantians were unhappy about this, because Ka-ha-si ate a lot but contributed little to the tribe. Still, they were few, and close, and Ka-ha-si was tolerated. His mother and father had been prominent, before they were lost at sea, and Ka-ha-si had inherited from them a tent made from many fine skins, and atleast Ka-ha-si did not bring trouble, as some of the other youths were known to do. Early one day the seal-hunters of the tribe had gone on a hunting expedition. They wanted Ka-ha-si to go with them, but he could not be awakened. The other men mocked him because he was so lazy. Ka-ha-si had a dream that night that his tribe would soon starve. He awoke in the middle of the night and set out for the shoreline. There, he met two bull walruses, both equally mighty and equally proud. Ka-ha-si tricked the two walruses into fighting to the death. When the other hunters returned in the morning, they were empty-handed. The hunting expedition had failed. Ka-ha-si awoke groggily and asked the men for breakfast. The men of the tribe angrily replied that there was no breakfast, they hadn't found so much as a single bony fish. Ka-ha-si pointed in the direction of the shore and sleepily told them "there you will find breakfast, and lunch, and dinner" and then Ka-ha-si promptly fell back asleep. The other men laughed scornfully. The greatest of the seal-hunters present spoke, "We will go to the shore and find a bunch of heavy rocks and tie them to this lazy idiot and toss him into the sea, to punish his lies!...and then we'll divide the skins from his fine tent among us." The other men agreed, they were tired of feeding this boy who only slept and ate, and would be gladly rid of him, especially if they gained a few skins in the process. So the men set out for the shore and lo and behold! They discovered the two walruses, cleaned and skinned and ready to be cooked. There was even a pile of wood there, ready to smoke the meat. The tribe was saved! Ka-ha-si was hailed as a hero-although he didn't notice this much, since he was asleep all the time. The chief seal-hunter himself honored Ka-ha-si with the skins and tusks from the two walruses. Ka-ha-si continued to sleep and dream in his warm tent, and the dreams he dreamed were interesting and great and vast and deep, and sometimes they told him things. In another dream, several years later, he was told that the tribe would soon be conquered. That night, and every night thereafter, Ka-ha-si awoke and went out into the woods. There he exercised and ran, lifted heavy stones, and swam in icy streams and the choppy surf to toughen his skin. A year passed and a human tribe came to the area from the south. They were led by a mighty Jotun. These men of the new tribe were by themselves much weaker than the Angakut, for they had had little luck hunting, but their chief was very strong, not only because he was a giant, but because he was cruel and took the lion's share of the food the tribe did find. Because the new tribe, weak or not, outnumbered Ka-ha-si's tribe more than three to one, and because the Atlantians of Ka-ha-si's tribe were fine warriors, even though they were few, the wise men of the two tribes managed to reach a compromise, while both sides prepaired themselves to go to war, a war which was certain to be bloody, and might destroy both groups, who each needed the men they had to hunt for food, because winter was not far away. There would be a wrestling match among all the tribe's men. The final winner's tribe would gain the good hunting ground that Ka-ha-si's tribe owned, and the loser would have to move on. All the men of the two tribes competed against each other, except for Ka-ha-si, who was sound asleep. The men of the other tribe mocked Ka-ha-si, asking the other tribe if Ka-ha-si was their guard-dog, and if so they should get a new one, and soon. The men of Ka-ha-si's tribe ignored their jeers and told the other tribe that Ka-ha-si was their hero. This caused the other tribe to laugh hysterically. Ka-ha-si's tribe did very well against the men of the other tribe, which silenced their insults. Their ancestors had been powerful Atlantians, and while those of Ka-ha-si's tribe were smaller and weaker than their ancient forbears, still they were much stronger than the humans, who were further weakened by starvation, and so the Angakut won again and again, except when matched against the jotun chief. Their giant chieftain beat Ka-ha-si's fellows most savagely, oftentimes breaking their limbs or even gouging out their eyes. If this continued, Ka-ha-si's tribe would soon be devastated! Finally, on the third day, early in the morning, Ka-ha-si awoke. He demanded to wrestle the jotun chief, there and then. The mighty jotun loomed over Ka-ha-si and boomed with laughter. "SO...FINALLY THE GREAT HERO AWAKES! AND MAKES DEMANDS UPON ME, NO LESS! HA! HA! HA! FINE, THEN!" The jotun commanded his men to draw a circle in the dirt right outside the doorway of Ka-ha-si's hut. The two squared off and began to fight. The jotun was twice the height of Ka-ha-si and must have outweighed him by five times, but he was much older, and had grown fat eating the other tribe's food. Ka-ha-si, on the other hand, was lean and swift and muscular. He avoided the giant's hands and feet and slid out of grips easily (he had secretly coated his body with rendered walrus-fat before the match). The jotun, although much stronger and far more experienced than Ka-ha-si, was quickly exhausted. Ka-ha-si managed to get the giant's neck in a powerful hold. The giant struggled, trying to break the grip, but now, with the old Jotun at the point of exhaustion, it seemed as though Ka-ha-si were the more powerful of the two. Ka-ha-si bent the Jotun further and further and further, until finally...SNAP! He broke the giant's back! Ka-ha-si's tribe had won! And once again, Ka-ha-si was the savior. Ka-ha-si has become a powerful shaman in his later years, and even though he is now quite old, he is still the strongest, fastest, and wisest member of his tribe, although he sleeps more than ever. He serves the Angakok with his wisdom and with his dreams of the future." Tungalik shaman. Str 15, att 12, def 12, hp 17, mr 12, morale 12, move 1/6, fatigue 6. Water 1, Earth 1, Astral 3. Research bonus +2. Weapons: quarterstaff, leather hood, full leather armor.

Sedna. "Sedna is an ancient Basalt Queen who has somehow survived into the modern era-even she is not sure how. She feels that she should have died many times over, and that only the Fates-and the promise of a restored Atlantis-have preserved her. Unbeknownst to her, she actually swallowed a whole bottle of Elixer of Life contained in a vessel of solid gold many years ago, when she consumed a pirate's treasure-chest, and this is what has preserved her. She has gained many worshippers among the most primitive tribes living in the outskirts of the frozen sea, and carries the title Goddess of Sea-Creatures, but she has no wish to vie for godhood herself. Instead she wishes only to see Atlantis restored to the greatness that she and a very few others still remember. Sedna is well known for her great knowledge but also for her terrible anger. Believing all the other Atlantians were dead, Sedna strove herself for godhood as a pretender for many years. When an Angakok shaman was out fishing in her territory, Sedna grabbed the side of his kayak and mistakenly tried to pull him under, in order to eat him. In self-defense, the Angakok struck off all the fingers of her right hand with an oar. When Sedna found out the Angakok was Atlantian, she forgave him, rejoined the Atlantian cause-forsaking her own godhood and worshiping the new god of Atlantis-and the two became lovers. Sedna is quite powerful, both physically and magically, and the spell, the Prison of Sedna, is named after her magical frozen retreat, in the depths of which she has kept many an enemy over the aeons." Basalt Queen. Size 6 (grown with age), hp 96, prot body 21, head 28, mr 18, Age 2365-no age penalty, Sedna has grown stronger, not weaker, over the years, Str 22, def 6. Water 5, Fire Resistant 50, Cold Resistant 100%. Cause Fear +4. Sedna has lost the use of her right hand. She wears a berserker pelt and in her left hand wields
a Winter Bringer. She also has an elixer of life and a ring of regeneration. On her head she wears a coral crown-the ancient crown of Atlantis (prot head 14, enables magical leadership +30).

The Kadlu: These are three sisters who govern storms, in Inuit mythology. I figured this would be a good basis for more or less generic Late Atlantis heroes. Atleast it will serve for three of them.
I'm naming them Anirniq (Inuit "breath"), Sila (Inuit "sky"), and Wentshukumi****eu (in Inuit myth, a water elemental who fiercely protects young animals, especially otters, from humans)

Based on ice captains:
they are female, MR 16, precision 12.
Anirniq wields an ice pebble staff, Sila wields a thunder bow, and Wentshukumi****eu wields a wave breaker. In addition, Anirniq has air 2 water 2 and carries a wall shaker. Sila has air 3 and wears an eye of aiming Wentshukumi****eu has nature 1, air 1, and water 1. She also has berserk +1. Alternatively, the other two sisters could have berserk +1, with Wentshukumi****eu berserk +3.
Each Kadlu wears a rime hauberk and a ring of tamed lightning.
They might also be immortal, at your discretion, and/or have fear and/or awe +0 if this doesn't make them too buff.

In all cases, stats and equipment not explicitly changed remains the same as that of the basic chassis listed.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Wow that´s a lot of stuff. I particularly like the ancient basalt queen.

There are a few problems though:
1)The description has to be rather short. I don´t think many players would appreciate getting hit by a wall of text everytime they rightclick the commander, even if the story is interesting.
2)Unique names aren´t viable.
3)You can´t give heroes misc magic items as far as I know.

Anyway I´m pretty much finished with updating my worthy heroes mod, so that every nation gets at least two heroes or a multihero, so your ideas probably won´t make it into the next Version. But I´d really like the basalth queen in a later update.

Re: Ideas needed for worthy heroes mod
 

Yeah, I got a little carried away writing the description, first from sheer enthusiasm, and then on purpose since I happen to like Ka-ha-si's story, and it's a real story that I tweaked just a bit to make it fit Atlantis, and extended quite a lot from the bare-bones I got in Wiki, but didn't deviate from. I just honestly felt like, since Dom3 has so much mythology in it already, that it'd be nice to give you all an actual myth, in the form of a story, the same way it would have been passed down centuries ago. It's one I read when I was very young, and rediscovered while researching Inuit mythology on Wiki. So, for the hero's description in-game, definitely check out Wikipedia, under Inuit mythology, "Ka-ha-si", their stub will fit perfectly. I'd rather not reproduce it here, word for word, for the sake of avoiding copyright infringement http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif but if you change a few words here and there, you'll be all set. Sedna's there too. I don't know what to do about the unique names problem, but there must be a modding solution, if not now then hopefully forthcoming. After all, names have power.