Two armies attacking the same province
 

When two of your armies move into the same province, do they combine forces to attack, or do you do two attacks, one after the other?

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

If both armies are from the attacking side they combine. If one is from the defending side, and the other from the attacking side, the defender's armies combine. If both armies and the defender are all from different nations, one army will attack the defender, then the other army will attack whoever is left from the results of that battle. It is therefore an obvious advantage to go last but there is no way to control (or, really, even predict) which nation will go in which order.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Not necessarily =)

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

If two forces under same nation's control both get to the target province, they combine.

One or even both might get killed before that, or some commanders might die of more or less natural causes leaving their troops without orders, etc etc. Also, if the enemy moves against one of your forces, if his army moves before yours, there will be two fights: enemy army against one of your armies, and your army against the defenders of the province the enemy army has already left.

If you press 'y' when you have selected a province several of your armies are moving into, you can give orders and select the placement of all the forces moving there. It's currently slightly bugged in that you can't change the orders of units already in the selected province (like stealthy forces).

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Yes, there are some things that can prevent movement of one of the armies by removing the commander. Assassinations, random events, remote summons, "ritual artillery," horror attacks, transportation spells, HP loss from disease/etc, and weird spells like winged monkeys all go before army movement, and there is a separate battle phase to resolve anything that happens from this sort of thing. If one of these should remove a commander either by death or magical relocation, all the troops he is leading will be transferred to the province garrison and will not carry out whatever marching orders you gave them that turn. This can be a major disaster.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

You missed my favoritest reason of all. In nations with stealth a third of your army will not fight because it moved in stealth mode by error. Of course it is the H Inf.

Here is a good one. You just captured a castle so when you move in a defending army it does not defend but hides inside while your 8 mages take on the enemy to their deaths.

Of course when you are giving move orders to 20 commanders you will miss someone in the confusion. Usualy longbow or H Inf.

No it does not always work even when it should.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

If you want a moving army to defend the castle it's moving towards it needs the action of "Move and Patrol", if it's just "Move" they will move to the inside of the castle.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Live and learn.

Of course it usualy is my errors that do me in.

Thanks.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Even when you know about tricks like "move and patrol" it's easy to forget them in the heat of the moment. A couple of changes that would really reduce the chance of a game being destroyed by a simple mistake after hours or days of play:

1) Units moving as a stack move together. If one can't make it, none do. It's a real waste to have to inspect the entire stack's orders after issuing a 2-province move or sea crossing, and that kind of auditing isn't my idea of fun even when I remember.

2) Likewise units in a group should only sneak if the entire group sneaks. This is particularly acute with nations that have lots of sneakies. It's painfully easy once you mix in a few independents to have only half your army show up and get crushed. (Handy tip: stick a non-sneaky troop under every commander. You need to watch for them dying though!)

3) Move and patrol should be default for castles (and maybe everything). Newbies shouldn't have to lose a game or two before realizing that racing your army to defend your castled province doesn't do a lick of good unless you countermand the order to defend the province with a special "defend the province" order which isn't called "defend". [img]/threads/images/Graemlins/Cold.gif[/img] Oh yeah, and see #1 to make sure everybody gets there.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Please don't change this. I never want to fight a battle outside a castle. You will almost always be better off breaking siege the next turn.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

I don't see how you come up with that. If you allow the enemy to seize the province before breaking the siege the next turn you:

lose 2 turns of troop recruitment (one turn will be wiped by the invader, one turn you won't control the provicne)
lose 1 turn of commander recruitment
lose 1 turn of province income
Allow your opponent 1 turn of province income (2 if he cranks the tax)
lose all your PD
lose one turn of army activity
lose the backing of your PD during the battle
risk tax or pillage damage to your province
lose travel through the province - and castles tend to be in important locations
lose the ability to reinforce your sieged army, while he can bring up reinforcements and have them join in the siege.

The only benefit is one more turn of summoning/forging. The only time you'd be better off breaking is if you're facing an army so strong that all your nearby armies, backed by your PD, will lose to his army, but you *can* beat him next turn with what you magic up in that castle the next turn. That's a pretty unusual situation. Unless you're holding back gems (generally a bad idea) I don't see how that's going to happen.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

And gain the enormous benefit of tying your opponents army down for at least a turn so that you can destroy it instead of having to chase his army around and never be able to catch it. After all, because of the movement rules, it's impossible to catch an army that constantly moves to new provinces every turn unless you can bring in a second force that's sufficient to destroy it.

I don't really mind losing the one gold that I spent to get a scouting commander. After all, now I don't have to worry about the province defense being killed and causing my pretender to autorout. The Dom3 morale system is still just as broken in this regard as the Dom2 system.

Tax damage to population is inconsequential for a single turn of 200% taxes. Pillage is only a problem if your opponent doesn't want to actually win the game, and would rather throw away his future income to try and kill you now.

His army is right there waiting to be attacked. You don't want to travel through that province, and most popular maps don't let you move more than one province anyways thanks to terrain happy mapmakers.

Armies that move into a province and armies that break siege from inside of the castle attack in the same combat.

That and the ability to make your opponent sit still for a turn so that you can get around the silly movement rules in dominions that keep armies from ever contacting each other unless they both attempt to move into the same province.

Why don't you tell me how you plan to force your opponent to attack the castle in the same turn that you've moved your forces there? It's also not at all uncommon to be able to summon sufficient troops in one turn at an important castle. Especially when holding back gems to wait for the strongest summons possible is the default strategy. If you've wasted your earth gems on cave drakes, I'll be quite happy to destroy them with clockwork horrors.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

He's not tied down at all. You can leave a sieged province just as well as an ordinary one. The AI won't leave but the attacks are very predictable.
You're really missing something if you're not using PD. For one thing, you have to be constantly running around to squish all those dang invading independents. For another, you're losing a great military tool. PD is quite respectable militarily until rather late in the game. Solo combatants are generally rather fragile; you can always back them up with a bank of archers if you're having autorout problems. In any case, even if your SC routs defending the province, he just ends up next door and you can break the siege anyway. You haven't lost anything from trying to defend.
If he's not going to squish you promptly it's not "his" income. It's good strategy to injure an opponent. Much better to control a damaged province than to have somebody else control an undamaged one!
You do want to travel through if you want to defend or reinforce other provinces. I normally play random maps, and I really wouldn't want to play on a map that was all forest/swamp anyway.
I know I saw double attacks in Dom2. Did they change that?
But he's not tied down. Incidentally, you can interfere with somebody when he's moving into your terrritory. Only if he retreats can he guarantee moving first. And if he retreats, you're winning.
You don't summon much early stuff, but once you get to level 5 or 6 you burn through gems as fast as you can. I don't agree with super summons being common. With the gold upped, even when you get to clockwork horrors and the like you just don't make enough to win. A squad of clockwork horrors is very nice but it won't even come close to wiping out an army. Besides that, most of the time your summoning squad will be in a different castle anyway.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

If he leaves, then his attack accomplished absolutely nothing but to raise unrest by about 30. You'll automatically take the province back next turn.

Yes, I'm missing out on having my supercombatants autorout.

Or I could just not take misfortune.

Putting archers in the battle means that the routing will happen after 12 turns once they start to run forwards into melee.

Not in general, since any competent player will also try and attack any province your forces might retreat to. Take a medusa as an example. She can kill 500 conventional troops per battle without taking a single hit with very cheap equipment. Put her with a small force and she'll rout as soon as the troops die.

Double attacks are caused by magical movement. Triple attacks are caused by the combination of magical attacks, a siege break, and then a storming of the fortress.

Have you ever tried chasing an army around a closed loop? They are not moving into the same province, so there is no combat between the two armies.

Why? Every province with a castle is going to be recruiting a mage every turn, so the only difference between castles is how long ago they were built and whether it's your capital for some nations.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Is this happening in Dom3? Because this should have been changed - see manual p. 73. Commanders are no longer supposed to rout when all of their troops have been killed. Are things still happening the old way?

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

It's page 80, and there's a mention of:

Army rout Once an army hsa taken 75% casualties in a battle, it will automatically rout.


I haven't noticed it being anywhere near the severity of DomII routing problems. In fact, I don't think I've ever actually noticed this taking effect.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

[quote]
Graeme Dice said:
Eh, since when has not taking misfortune helped that much? I mean - I take Luck-3 _every_ game. And in every one of five MP games, I've had to re-take provinces from random events. In one, by turn 15 I'd lost provinces _four_ times, meaning that I essentially lost any chance at being a contender.

Luck _still_ doesn't do nearly enough.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

That is correct - I was just wondering if armies were routing due to commanders losing all their units.

Thanks for the clarification. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Luck does plenty for me. If I don't take any luck/misfortuse, even aided by order 3, I get a crapload of brigands, fires, and earthquakes. Also random monster attacks, of course. I get a ton of good events with luck 3, (though some of them are flaggelants and militia) though it's mostly 120 points of protection money.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Wild guess... those provinces were under a misfortune dominion? Remember, having a good dominion is little use if you don't push it http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I have no idea if this is an effective strategy, but for the who-needs-a-pretender-anyway-strategy (where I usually choose a fountain, imprisoned) and go for max dominion, disorder3,magic3,prod3,grow3,heat0... I very rarely see any misfornate events, except along the border until my pretender breaks free. Lots of gold=>lots of temples=>more dominion push. And more priests to push it quicker too.

Re: Two armies attacking the same province
 

Nope, friendly dominion with luck in most cases, and definately in that last game. The problem with luck is that it still actually increases the likelihood of bad effects, by increasing the likelihood of _some_ event happening, without doing enough to reduce the odds of bad events.

(This is of course my non-scientific analysis, as opposed to a mathematical analysis based on the published effects of luck/misfortune. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif )