DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

This is just unfair, there's no other word for it.

A few months ago, I took a look at the Horse and Musket demo, was disappointed and confused by the graphics, and posted in the H and M forum, expressing my confusion and disappointment. I explained and addressed my concerns in a lucid and logical fashion, although my criticisms were somewhat harsh. As I recall, I said that the graphics in H and M looked like "something some drunk puked up on the sidewalk outside the homeless shelter". Harsh, yes, but based on actual fact, not some vague claim of promises that we all know were never made.

Harshness aside, my post contained no profanity and no personal attacks of any kind, it was purely a criticism of the product itself.

I was ripped to pieces by the other posters there, and subjected to personal attacks and insults. I posted one light-hearted response, devoid of any reciprocal nastiness at all.

My response was deleted, the thread was closed, and I received letters of reprimand from two different Shrapnel games staffers, each of which was at least as harsh as my original post. In short, it was made clear that I and my opinions were not welcome in that forum.

Now Kagetora comes along and Posts vitriolic attacks on you, Aaron, Shrapnel, SE4 and all its fans, and anyone else who dares to disagree with him. All of this based not on any real-world problem, but on vague claims of alleged promises. You let this guy go on and on for nearly a dozen Posts. Then you go all polite and conciliatory, and even give him a free game.

Why the double standard, Richard? The cynical might suspect it was because he was also embarassing you in the forums of a gaming magazine, so you bought him off to shut him up.

I tell you in all honesty and sincerity, I have nothing but respect and admiration for you, Aaron, Mike Cooney, and all the other folks that are involved with Shrapnel games. But I think there is a real inequity here. I'm not looking for a freebie, and I wouldn't accept one if it were offered. I'm looking for some explanation of why I was treated so much more harshly for a far lesser degree of offense.

Respectfully but unhappily,

Chris Joiner AKA Possum

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

I went to school with a couple of twins who's Last name was Joiner. Sorry, off topic, but ironic.

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

I see they locked-em out http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif

------------------
mottlee@gte.net
"Kill em all let God sort em out"

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

MUST this continue for forever in a Public forum???? Richard please lock this thread and speak to possum privately. I relly am starting to see these as a black mark on the forum..

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

This should not have happenned and I cannot find any email in my box that went to you on this.

Can you privately email me and let me know who emailed you and forward those to me if possible.

Also do you know who closed the thread?

If I did it I do apologize, under no circumstances though should the post have been deleted we don't work that way. Your right it is unfair.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

I did some more research and this was the day before I left for West Point to work on the Steel Beasts deal with them so I probably was busy as crap.

ALso in your email please let me know what you deleted responce said so I can look into this further. I am definetly not happy about this http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon9.gif.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

(self-censored)

Aaron, Richard, I apology and ask your forgiveness. This shall never happen again...

[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 29 May 2001).]

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

I don't think Richard will lock you out. For what it is worth Possum, I think the graphics look more like playing a video game after having your eyes dialated. Instead of looking like units of men, it looks like a big blurred Version of the same guy over and over (either that or I'm seeing trails again!!!!)

Still its probably better to resolve this kind of stuff out of the public spotlight. Take care yall - Joe

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

Again this is not how we do business. I do not delete Posts and I have yet to ban anyone from our forums.

As far as what I did for Kagetora it has nothing to do with me being in trouble or buying him out. If you saw in the Last thread I had overwhelming support from the community.

However at heart I am a nice guy, probably too nice to be doing this job. And unfourtanetly I will probably catch some flak from my own company for doing this (not too much guys so don't worry about it). Was it necessarily the smartest thing to do, probably not, but at the time I was trying to be fair.

And no you won't get Banned or locked down. I only lock down threads that serve no purpose and I have not resolved this issue with Possum.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

Richard,

I'm sorry, please don't misunderstand my Last post. Your work is still appreciated and I'm not complaining about SE4, never... (except the probly selective support, but for now I think you are too busy to answer every suggestion)

I was just a little bit upset about the "Lock 'em out, delete them..." Messages. Usually I'm also a nice guy unless something drives me PSYCHO...

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

Well I know Aaron tries to answer every email but he does get quite a few.

As far as the deletes as soon as I have more info I will investigate, this is not how you run a proper board.

------------------
Sarge is coming...

Richard Arnesen
Director of Covert Ops
Shrapnel Games
http://www.shrapnelgames.com

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

I think the solution Richard came up with was the best one. He had an irate customer and basically made them happy. That's how good businesses work. I've had to give away more for less in my business.
Why would anyone think that if you have negative, harsh or bad things to say about SE4 then you should not post it here. I thought that is what this was all about, a place where you could ask questions, get or give advice, complain etc. As long as it doesn't become a place for personal attacks then I think anything should go. After all, the board is broken into topics and you aren't forced to read anything you don't have an interest in.
Please keep this an open forum where all ideas can be expressed.

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marty Ward:
I think the solution Richard came up with was the best one. He had an irate customer and basically made them happy... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see, Richard is a very nice guy, and as a fact of this, he couldn't ignore such individuum. I respect his decision, and if it brings peace to the board, I'm happy also...

Just to make my point about this: In our peaceful community we might have a lot of folks who have politely requested for changes to the game and have posted bug reports and so on. Some of them (like me) have never got any response, so we are patiently waiting several months... but a customer who puzzles the board, not accessible to whatever argument of the community, he comes to immediate attention.

I just don't hope someone else could ever copy that impolite idea to bring up his wishes.

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Some of them (like me) have never got any response, so we are patiently waiting several months... but a customer who puzzles the board, not accessible to whatever argument of the community, he comes to immediate attention.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>This sort of behavior is as old as the saying, "the squeaky wheel gets the grease". Barring a fundamental change in human nature, it will always crop up from time to time.

------------------
Cap'n Q


The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the
human mind to correlate all of its contents. We live on a placid
island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was
not meant that we should go far. -- HP Lovecraft

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

This whole thread brings to mind another old saying...

"Your're damned if you do, and damned if you don't"

Richard, I take back anything I EVER said about wishing I had a job like yours.

Geo

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

Well since Richard and I have come to a meeting of the minds. I intend to keep my part of the bargain and put out my fire toward this company. However, I would just like to say that most of what happened between myself and Richard was a misunderstanding. He thought I was somebody I was not. I basically thought he was somebody he was not from second hand knowledge and a quick scan over of a thread on another board where I ascertained he was doing everything other than trying to please a customer. However, he was in a heated arguement at the time and I understand how those things go sometimes. But, this made both of us more harsh than we probably normally would or should have been. Relationships are everything. He offers me a game it's not money it lets me know that they care about me as a customer and are a business of integrity. That is what matters, the rest is just human frailty on display. Serves nothing to try to convince a customer he shouldn't be upset about your product. If he is angry you have a problem that should be taken care of. Richard did what he should have done. He made an effort to please a customer and that customer went away happy. I dare say if he had responded in any similar manner before it would not have gotten out of hand in the first place.

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

Psycho,
From a business standpoint Richard made the correct decision. That's what this incident should be viewed as, a business decision. It may have taken place in the wrong location but in fact K had a problem with the product and Richard handled it.
As far as requesting changes, feedback, etc from designers and not receiving a response, I think it amazing that MM has provided such suport in the past the this is considered a fault. I have never received a response directly from a game designer on any question I have ever asked of any company. That Aaron would even bother answering shows the level of commitment MM has to their customers, good ones and bad ones.
So don't feel like K got special treatment, he got the treatment he was entitled to from a class company.

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kagetora:
Well since Richard and I have come to a meeting of the minds. I intend to keep my part of the bargain and put out my fire toward this company....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You seem like a guy who could make a few additions to the SE4 community. If you're still willing to keep playing the game, you should check out modding - many people get as much if not more enjoyment out of the modding aspect. Lots of tactics and strategies to develop there...

Anyways, I for one, welcome any and all SE4 players constructive criticism and knowledge...

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marty Ward:
... That Aaron would even bother answering shows the level of commitment MM has to their customers, good ones and bad ones...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Marty, I agree. And I also regret my utterance about the possible fake Messages from MM, this was misplaced and written in affective mood, I apology for that.

Again, I don't mind that I haven't got responses and I don't think my suggestions could be more important than others.

Let's go ahead and help to bring up Aaron's Baby (SE4) a step forward to Adolescence (SE5 ?). (Edit: don't misunderstand this sentence, please!)



[This message has been edited by PsychoTechFreak (edited 27 May 2001).]

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

You seem like a guy who could make a few additions to the SE4 community. If you're still willing to keep playing the game, you should check out modding - many people get as much if not more enjoyment out of the modding aspect. Lots of tactics and strategies to develop there...

Anyways, I for one, welcome any and all SE4 players constructive criticism and knowledge...&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;&lt;

Well thanks, I might check out one of the mods, but I am so good at strategy that it's unlikely they would give me enough of a challenge to bother still. I don't have the time or patience to try playing email but I am still hoping they might get TCP/IP in this game eventually. If so I will be happy to give a few of you a run for your money some weekend.&lt;G&gt;

Re: DOUBLE STANDARD!
 

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kagetora:
... I will be happy to give a few of you a run for your money some weekend.&lt;G&gt;<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In this forum you'll find a lot of strategy veterans, also some military veterans, not one of them would let his golden retriever drivel on his keyboard, ...but I guess they will conquer you in a few turns if you are not prepared... Mr. So-Good-At-Strategy , watch out. (Don't be angry about this name, I guess you will get your challenge, that's all I wanted to say with this.) http://www.shrapnelgames.com/ubb/images/icons/icon7.gif