Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Just wondering, why has the old (aka SEIV style) race creation setup, where you can spend points to increase certain "stats" by percentages been removed ?! I find/found the old system to be a lot more satisfying.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

I dunno, it seemed kinda broken, like I could have shipyards that built insanely fast by knocking down ground combat and intel to %50 and boosting the SY stat all the way up. The new method just seems simpler, it reminds me of MoO2's setup but with more options. I also never liked fiddling with the percents to get juuuust the right setting, and having leftover points or something like 103% in a stat.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

That's my biggest beef.

People complaining about the race setup sliders, when it is STOCK se4 settings that caused all the problems.

SE4 mods made great improvements, and with formulae available from SE5, sliders would be the ultimate race setup option; very easily balanced using a smooth curve of diminishing returns, too.

I mean come on... removal of the sliders did nothing for race setup balance; look at mineral/org/rads extraction skill.
In SE5 there isn't even any variation in how *much* you reduce org/rads and increase minerals...

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

One little misguided complaint about them being unbalanced, and swoosh, out the window the whole thing went...

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

I miss not being able to tweak my empire. I miss it more than I miss any other much loved feature left out of SE V that was in SE IV.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

I didnt say stock was balanced. But with formulas implented in SEV, the race setup could be based on formulas as well, instead of pure + X % from base modifiers.

I definitly think the setup in SEIV was a pretty good idea.

Hugh Manatee: I was talking about the system itself. All of us now how imba stock setup was. With formulas implented, the game is not bound to fixes modifiers anymore though. To sum it up, 110 % + the "hard" contruction trait (say 25 %) would not result in 100 + 10 + 25 = 135 %. Hence why every experienced gamer buffed their contruction ability to 150 %...

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Noone said you did, Ragnarok-X. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Right, but i somehow felt that certain people tried argueing about the wrong point lol.

So, any chance this ***very good system*** will get reimplemented ?

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Didn't Aaron say something about that in the chat? Something about not wanting the old system back but being open to suggestions about a new system.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

The chat is posted on line in a few locations.

I know that he has said that he left it out of this game because someone complained that it caused balance issues. One lone complaint and the whole thing is flushed away.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Uh. I want to know the nick of the guy that complained.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Mainly I like the roundness of it, I want a sart race, I pick "smart", I want a dumb race, I pick "dumb", and it's either + or -500. I remember MoO2 having like 10 race points going either way, with a score bonus if you didn't spend them all.

Perhaps with a mod you could put in varying degrees of racial bonuses, from 20 to -20, like in MoO2.

Also, now you have the cultural techs, so if you want any given attribute boosted, you just research it as you play, working towards it.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

So would I. So would I.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

So instead of one nice clean slider, you want to use a bloated monstrosity of checkboxes in a list providing less utility overall?

The UI is already bad enough.

Cultural techs are definitely no replacement for racial setup, since in this case research points turn into racial points.


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If we were to get any racial setup system out of the blue, what I would want is a supply & demand system...

When setting up your race, you don't choose what values you want... instead, you set an "importance" score for each trait, along with the minimum and maximum trade amount.

When the game is first started, each race will then trade attributes, buying low, selling high until they can no longer make a trade which will increase their holding's importance.

So if everybody values minerals very highly, but one race is willing to sell, they will get a LOT of other attributes in exchange.
The race which values minerals the highest will get the most offers, but will also be willing to give up the most in other traits to get those mineral skill points.

Overall, all the races in the game average out to "average" skill by definition, which makes sense.
And as a bonus, there is no balancing required. The cost of each trait is determined by free market forces.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Well at least we can add a bunch of options into the racial characteristics section and make it so that it takes a year to scroll down through all of the options.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Yeah thats funny. Kevin does so, in his Golden Eclipse mod. He has 6 traits for each characteristic, granting +- 5, 10 and 15 percent respectivly. A whole load of scrolling.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

interesting idea SJ, but getting a 10+ mp game started would be a headache...


Edit:
Actualy, re reading what you said, I see how it would work.
yea that could be fun.

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

Pretty cool idea SJ, asreed. Player could even bluff, aiming for "low"-priced aptitudes and selling their generally more important abilities for them (if you are a running a certain non-mainstreamed tactic).

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

I doubt the changes were made because of a single complaint.

It would have had to take many complaints to change the system in such a dramatic way.

So ask for the list of names. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: Reason for the new race-creation setup ?
 

I'm sure in reality it was more along the lines of "everybody says it sucks, so I'll remove it..."

When what we were really saying is that stock settings suck.