SFTC
 

I started a thread when I attempted the SE4 version of this. That project died out mostly because I could not get SE4 to model the StarFire universe well enough. Another challenge was my own goal. I was determined not to make this into a TC and was cutting some major corners. Well, now we have SE5 and I have the ability and with help here the skills are coming. I have also given up on this being just a mod and will work on it to finish. So it will have to be a TC as nothing from stock is working right or in balance. I know at least one person who has dropped me a few questions and the offer to help test it when I get to that point. These questions though are getting spread around the forum and when I go to hunt each one down I end up with a missing post and frustrated. So I am starting this thread with the hopes <crosses-fingers> I can keep things in a single place.

Progress so far:
Atmosphere Types: Done
Colony Types: Done
Component Enhancements: Done
Components: Done --- awaiting generational components fix from MM
Cultural Achievements: Done
Damage Types: Done
Design Types: Done
Emperor Tittles: Done
Empire Names: Done
Empire Types: Done
Facilities: Done --- may have a bug awaiting MM fix
Government Types: Done
Home World Starting Facilities: Done
Main Strings: Done
Racial Traits: Done
Settings: Working
Shield and Armor Levels: Done
Ship Experience: Done
Society Types: Done
Strategies: Done
System Names: Done
Tech Areas: Done
Vehicle Sizes: Done
Vehicle Unit Types: Done
Warp Transit Types: Done

There’s so many left to work on it’s not even worth mentioning. Heck I still need to create the entire galaxy! There are 13 design name files for ships that need a bit of cleaning up but are otherwise done. Finally there are a few very minor changes to a bmp here or there, to small to warrant being listed individually.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Keep the Faith, I played starfire when it came out in the folio sized packets. Always glad someone keeps Starfire going in any shape or form.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Where are you stationed at now; still in the Ft Sam area? Ever seen those homes back on Infantry Post? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/eek.gif

Re: StarFire TC
 

So when are you going to start working on the AI's...?

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

Re: StarFire TC
 

I will leave the AI’s till very last; however, as I build the components I am keeping the AI in mind. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Edited in: After I complete the components (which will also mean the completion of the mounts) I will start on creating the galaxy. Now I need to find out the max size in hexes the system can be set at so I can test to see how much it will drain an older computer like mine.

Re: StarFire TC
 

This is what I've gleamed from the huge modding thread so far on the subject...

Re: StarFire TC
 

There is plenty of work to be done yet on other files but the components, facilities, vehicles, and mounts are all done. There are known bugs/issues that I have to wait for MM to fix. If Aaron doesn’t fix at least one of the bugs I will have to see if generational components of this nature can be turned into progressive components and still be kept close enough to the spirit of the game to make playing worth it. So Kana (or anyone else) where is this thread about system size?

Re: StarFire TC
 

There wasnt a thread on it...it was part of the Monster Modding thread...

Re: StarFire TC
 

I just took a look at the setting and this thread must have been talking about something else concerning the pictures used. There they mention 20x15 and 24x18 but the default is 26x20.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
System Width In Hexes := 26
System Height In Hexes := 20
</pre><hr />

Re: StarFire TC
 

He was trying to *reduce* the size of the system PES, hence the smaller values.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Ok that would make sense and I did mention they must have been talking about something else in my last post. Anyway I was asking about the max values and since I hadn’t looked at the setting prior to reading that post…. Hence I didn’t recognize it was smaller before posting.

I did get to try out 264x264 before I had to leave. When the system appeared it was 26x20 again. Is there another place that this needs to be adjusted? I am trying for a 264x264 system grid.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Read the post again, because it does mention that. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif You need to edit System Radius from Center as well. In your case set it to

410 (the base value) * 13.2 (264/20- the amount your new map is larger than the base) = 5412.

Re: StarFire TC
 

That's huge...talk about having to have good sensors...and robust engines...I wonder how much processing that is going to eat up, and how the orbits will be affected?

Re: StarFire TC
 

That’s why I am going to use my computer as a guinea pig. It is an older one and should show any problems the newer high end systems usually don’t have. 264x264 is the base size and I will adjust down from there.

Sensor range will be compensated for later, the values I have assigned now are just place holders based on the current size of systems. As for how long it takes I don’t know, cannon is not based on size of system it is based on accumulated points. This should be quicker than cannon though. I know it may have been some time since you played but remember systems were surveyed by survey fleets with as many as 60 ships. And that isn’t even taking the survey fleets escorts into account!

Re: StarFire TC
 

PES, I'm thinking that the sheer size is going to make it unplayable, just from the scroll you'd have to do to see all the system.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Certainly a different form of SEV...

Re: StarFire TC
 

@ P-D: Thanks for the input; I already thought of that too. Like I said before I will start there and adjust downward till I find a happy medium.

@ Kana: Well I did say in the opening post this wasn’t another mod. It is a true TC = Total Conversion!

Re: StarFire TC
 

I tried to do a conversion back in the days of SE 4 that was based off the Starfire books (not necessarily the game) It was called Derek's Mod (alternately Dave's Mod)

Are you going to try and model things like the bug shuttles as ships larger than fighters, can warp, but can also be carried by carrier type ships, as well as other things like external mount missiles, and some other neat things?

Dave

Re: StarFire TC
 

Everything is already in the components. The only items not working right now are EDM’s which I had to convert to ED Field Generators. Those will work once a bug in how bonuses are applied is corrected. You are referring to gunboats and I left them out. I could include them at a later time and only left them out because when I started playing the gunboat did not exist. When it was introduced it created a huge imbalance in the game and I wound up tossing them out of the rules. I think they have been fixed but have not used them. A lot of the missile types were left out since SE5 uses abstract ammo. I could have created them as a type of drone and made non-sprint missile launchers fire them. If you tried this mod in SE4 you already know what is wrong with that approach; A LOT! If there are other things you would like to know about in specific feel free to ask. For example the Interstellar Command Center is out, the Courier Drone, both the half sized engines, and a few others.

Oh yes External Ordinance Weapons are in, tested, and they work better than I ever hoped for! As is the X-Ray Laser used by the Thebians, Pinnace, and SBMHAWK both of which are warp capable. Many of the Datalink systems are out as they just couldn’t be modeled enough to make it worth while. If during testing or after release players table ideas to how items left out could be included I would certainly be willing to add them. Also I intend to do house rules even for solo or MP games upon request if provided all the necessary stats.

I wish I had known you were working on this mod for SE4. I had an entire thread dedicated to the project here and eventually it wound up dying. Too many items were lost due to SE4 restrictions and I felt the spirit of the game had been lost with them. I also had one or two hard core SF fans who kept insisting things had to be “this way” (as in by the book) or not at all. One last item not working are the four versions of LT. I built them in but need another patch and then they will work as in canon.

Edited in: Do we know each other from the Rigelian Diaries with Steve?

Re: StarFire TC
 

Kana said:
I wonder how much processing that is going to eat up, and how the orbits will be affected?

When I was testing it, I couldn't make systems 4 or 5 times the stock size without getting the frame rates to drop below 1 FPS. 3x size was strenuous too. I found that for my machine, 2.5x size increase was optimal.

Re: StarFire TC
 

So because of this the chances for an SE V version of FQM are also limited right?

Re: StarFire TC
 

I have gotten a 66x66 hex map of a huge galaxy to generate and display very quickly. I forgot to check the time but it was under two minutes with 255 systems set as max. Scroll speed and FPS showed no lag at all. So the problem you were having [Fyron] was probably related to another issue that has already been fixed. The only problem I encountered was a zoom out issue. The map was so large I had to scroll to get to the other side. I am about to take a look and see if that can be adjusted (as with combat) but before I go does anyone know if there is a setting for that?

For the record: <font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
System Width In Hexes := 66
System Height In Hexes := 66
System Point Radius From Center := 1353.0
</pre><hr />

Re: StarFire TC
 

Cool!

It was quite a while ago that I did this, probably around 2000/2001 or so. Also, I never actually played Starfire, only read the fiction books, and researched it on the web.

Also, very awesome about the SBMHAWK's, I had been wondering about those. As for warp points, and warping, have you figured out anyway to simulate the massive warp point defenses, and the simultaneous transfers (resulting in some interspersed/destroyed ships), or does the SE5 engine not allow anything like that? I have not played SE5 very extensively, I am waiting for the bugs to get worked out, and I definitely have not done any modding at all for SE5 yet.

Oh, and I'm not on the Rigellan Diaries, so no to the last question.

Dave

Re: StarFire TC
 

Se5 covers simultaneous transits quite nicely, actually. You have to order them manually using warp transit order commands for fleets, and in stock there's a 10% chance of inter penetration.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Cool. Like I said, I haven't played SE5 much, still waiting for the bugs to get worked out.

Re: StarFire TC
 

As P-D said SE5 handles that nicely enough with the only exception being there is no way to simulate coming to a readiness state; so all the defenders are ready all the time. That is a small hick-up that doesn’t really rob from the game since (as I’m sure you recall from the books) the attackers should have a brief moment were there systems are getting over the effects of a warp jump and they can’t engage. In the end the two balances out since neither is a factor. Also you may recall from the books the chance for interpenetration seems a bit higher than 10%. It is actually 30% and I have adjusted (modded) this into the game, it was an easy one line change. Did you read Insurrection? You may recall the Terran Rim Federation used an un-Godly weapon called the Heavy Bombardment Missile Launcher. &lt;cue evil laughter&gt; He-He-He-He…

I can’t find a line that controls the zoom out so I am going to try it at 55x55 and then 44x44. What I may end up having to do is cut ice planets out. By canon they are far out there and it takes a significant amount of time to complete a round trip. Also they can’t be settled but the moons can be under extreme conditions so settling them is only useful when you trying to set up an observation outpost for those once in a blue moon warp points that appear that far out and actually connect to something meaningful. Most games I played ignored them completely anyway. Still cutting the system down to 55x55 is only 20.8% of the actual area and that means (strictly by the book) most planets in the sixth orbit and all planets from the seventh orbit ring out will be removed. Then again if I was going strictly by the books over half the components would have been tossed out already. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

Re: StarFire TC
 

Oh, I remember the HBM's. I modeled those just by taking cap missiles in SE4 and making them much more damaging, and much, much longer ranges. Of course, the launchers were really bug.

I was able to somehow get the AI to use them occasionally, and extra long range missile duels became quite interesting!

As for the interpenetration, that works great, and yes, you are right, it does more or less cancel each other out (readiness vs warp disorientation)

Datalinks could be modeled by giving ships components that increase the entire fleets defense percentage, but making them extra large, so that it is only cost effective to give them to one or two ships in a fleet... Not perfect, but should come close. Also not sure if this is possible under SE5, I think it was under SE4.

Gunboats shouldn't be too hard to do at some point in the future, either. The warp capability is going to be the sticking point, I think.

Re: StarFire TC
 

The datalink thing is possible in SE5; see the Golden Eclipse mod for an example.

Units can be made warp-capable in SE5. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: StarFire TC *DELETED*
 

Post deleted by Phoenix-D

Re: StarFire TC
 

Dayum! So much possible in 5 that wasn't in 4! I'm verrrrrra happy 'bout that!

Re: StarFire TC
 

Another update with my expansion of the system hex. I found out that if you want to keep the map looking “right” (as opposed to box-ish) you need to make the width 130% the height. Naturally that means more real-estate to play with when making out systems. My final testing came out with a 62x48 map and 984 radius from center. So I came to about the same map size as Fyron but for aesthetic reasons. As noted before the slow FPS seems to have of been related to another issue which was fixed by one the patches between his testing and mine (v1.20). That is 18% of the SF system map, I should be able to include most all planets but a few of the larger systems will be put on a diet. Fair compromise in my book for now, I will decide what I want to do when I get to that point as I do have a few ideas bouncing around. One thing at a time!

I think I am getting everyone confused, my bad. I have datalink, what I meant to say is that don’t have all the version in canon because there is no similar SE5 ability. The big thing is the blind spot and firing arcs, neither one SE5 has and that was really what later generations of Datalink were for overcoming. Also gunboats are way to easy and I can make them like did the SBMHAWK Pods or even the Pinnace which was a for-runner of the gunboat line. The difference is the Pinnace couldn’t deliver the punch of a small ship and that is way to powerful for such a small and cheap ship to be able to accomplish. A squadron sure, but the early gunboat could take out destroyers one on one with the right weapons load. And as I said I haven’t looked to see how they have been adjusted since those early days.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Well you have already fudged many things to get them to fit the SEV mold. You could include your vision of gunboats, that arent quite as powerful...

Re: StarFire TC
 

Think of those egg rolls you always seem to get suckered into eating. You know the ones. Normal egg rolls are good and these aren’t really *bad* there just not you know… normal. You know you will have to eat them sooner or later or risk offending the person who bought/brought them but you still manage to put it off for just one more minute. Well to me GB are like those egg rolls. I am sure I will have to build them in and I already know from just reviewing them they will need to be fudged a little, but if I could just wait one more minute…

Now off to play deity; and Ed said “Let there be light” and he started typing in the stars…

Re: StarFire TC
 

One question, are you planning on making different shipsets for the races or just using stock?

Either way, cant wait for this to be released.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Ship sets? Holy Crap Batman I can’t do those. Well not right now, I would have to learn it from scratch. Unless someone with those skills did it for this TC I wouldn’t hold my breath. Depending on the AI, scripting the events, solar system, and bugs after release I may start working on learning how to make ship sets by late 07 to early 08. Speaking of which once I get solar systems moded this thing will be ready for a limited Beta run test.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Yaa!!!! Beta !!!!!

Re: StarFire TC
 

Thanks to some help I have worked through the last few bugs in the generation of the planets. Now I need to adjust the sensors, build the system layouts and the beta will be ready; if you are interested can PM me. Depending on how many want to test this out I may be turning people away.

Re: StarFire TC
 

I am canceling the galaxy creation step and going straight to testing. It seems the creation process as it works now is useless. PM me if you would like to test.

Re: StarFire TC
 

I need conformation that generational components are phasing out. Since the latest patch I have noticed that I don’t need to reload SE5 to get the components to phase out when they are supposed to.

Re: StarFire TC
 

Can't confirm. My Frigate with a requirement of level &lt; 2 and my DUC with a requirement of Projectile Weapons &lt; 2 both required a reload to show up.

Re: StarFire TC
 

I would like to take a look at those if you don't mind. I have never had a problem with items showing up for build and use (both my hull types and components) my problem has always been getting them to go away when they are replaced by an improved version. Do I understand you right that you can't get your hull and component to appear for use? No I'm sure I am misunderstanding you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif

Re: StarFire TC
 

So you want the FG and DUC to appear when you have reached level 3 or higher in their respective fields? Why did you set them like that?

Re: StarFire TC
 

I misspoke. They don't -disappear-.

Bugs ?
 

Currently found things...

Small CQ is it supposed to be 10kt? Or is it supposed to be 5kt...? Otherwise it seems useless...

How about adding a Small LS Hold? Unless I havent gotten that far in the tech tree yet?

Also Magazines are not counting towards the cargo space requirement...unless I didnt add enough of them?

Also once I get my teeth into the mod, I will seriously consider writting an Ophiuchi AI...

Re: Bugs ?
 

Small CQ: You can read about it here in the entry dated 2401.2 but in a nut shell it is a 10kT system which provides life support and crew quarters. Are you adding life support on top of the Small CQ? Shame on you, didn't you notice the warning for life support and crew quarters disappear when you placed the Small CQ? Anyway there is no need for a small LS hold. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Magazines count toward the cargo space requirement but they do not provide cargo space for storing items. They are magazines for ammo only. The key here is "A Magazine counts towards cargo space requirements." That means that a player can build fleet colliers without having to spend valuable tonnage on cargo holds to meet the requirement on freighter hulls.

Re: Bugs ?
 

Yeah I went an looked at my SF book, and read the entry on SCQ, I didnt notice it in game, but I guess I might have overlooked it...NP.

Yeah but how much to they contribute to the cargo space requirement. I added some Mags to a design, and the requirement didnt dissappear...I fool with it some more...

Also can you tell me the scale you using for structure/spaces, damage, etc...? I'm pretty sure I'm following it, but I want to make sure...Either here or in a PM?

Re: Bugs ?
 

The scale is taken from canon x10. So taking the Qs for example it is 1HS converted to the mod is 10HS (1*10). As for the cargo problem you are having I think I know what it may be. You are getting the cargo storage requirement mixed up with the cargo hold restriction. So lets take a freighter for example (because all freighters have both). If you read the two relevant freighter requirements they are:

1: This vehicle must have at least 40% of its hull dedicated to cargo storage.
2: All vehicles must have at least 1 cargo hold for itself.

Those are two separate elements. In #1 you need anything that has cargo storage or that counts toward cargo storage. In the second you must have a Cargo Hold or Small Cargo Hold.

Re: Bugs ?
 

You are probably correct...but it easy to confuse the concept...

As for damage, I'm not sure if your using a scale...I'll make some notes as I play, and we can disucss some ideas/concepts later...

Re: Bugs ?
 

Yes, depending on what edition you are using it should match what is in the game. There will be some differences because of the flexibility SE5 allowed me when assigning damage over ranges. However, the base range at damage is from canon x10.

Re: Bugs ?
 

I am currently reading "In Death ground". I got "The Shiva Option" years ago and read IDG once from the library but I decided to use Christmass money to buy the first one.

I'd love to see how Closed warppoints are handled.

I always imagine Bug warships to look like this
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i1...tlecruiser.jpg