[OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

OK, these boards have seen their fair share of 'Lucas sold out/ ruined Star Wars/ is a beardy git' conversations, so I thought I'd draw everyone's attention to this little story of webcomic artist vs George Lucas' bully-boy lawyers:

Diesel Sweeties

Ok, legally speaking it's pretty clear someone is making money from T-shirts with stylised Star Wars stuff on them, but I say Lucas should have let this one slide. After 30 years I think Star Wars is so much a part of popular culture it's unfair to stomp on people who are simply expressing and sharing their love of it. It's not even as if the artist in question had simply grabbed a still from the film and stuck that on a T-shirt: The work is creative and original, even if it does invoke a copyrighted franchise. The fact that the shirts are sold for profit does nothing to detract from this imho, and I see this as nothing more than the precious Mr Lucas crapping on his fans from a great height for the sake of nothing more than petty jealousy. He's got enough money, he's made all the SW films he wanted to (I certainly HOPE he has, anyway), he should let the fans have Star Wars now.

Or maybe I'm just bad-tempered because didn't get enough sleep last night. One or the other. Either way, I'm tempted to get one of the 'Cease and Desist' shirts.

Also, Diesel Sweeties is a really cool webcomic. If you don't read it, do.

BTW, if you want to see the shirts that caused all the fuss (they have now been removed from the site), try:
Ain't Google cacihng brilliant?

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

The problem is the way copyright law is setup. You cannot, legally speaking, selectively defend your trademarks, copyrights, or intellectual property. If you have a proven track record of not defending them, over a period of time, they go public domain.

So while I am usually first in line to bash George Lucas, he doesn't have much choice here if he wants to own the Star Wars rights.

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Lucas wants to be the only one making money off of his creation and rightfully so. Afterall, it was he who ruined the franchise with Episode I, II, and III. So why shouldn't the exhalted one make a $0.50 cents in royalties off of every T-Shirt sold?

Its not like he needs the money or anything.

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I have to second The Gnome on this one. It's all fine for people to say that he's bashing on fans, but what is never said is when various fans do approach Lucasfilm through the correct channels, very rarely are they turned aside when they want to use copy-writed material. Of course, this totally depends on what they intend to do with them.

Case in point: The 501st Stormtrooper Legion (www.501st.com). The 501st has been working with Lucasfilm for many years and they have not once made an issue with us using trademarked/copy-writed stuff. In fact, Lucasfilm, though they maintain the trademarks, have even come to the 501st leadership to ask their input. In return, Lucasfilm has included the 501st in lots of promo events (escort duty for various SW personalities, SW Weekends at Disneyworld, etc). The 501st has permission to produce our own regalia with full licence to use copy-writed stuff. (My personal treasure is my 501st Swiss Army knife. All black, with the Imperial cog. Only 40 in existance).

Speaking of which, if you have the opportunity, watch the Rose Parade on January 1st, '07. As a jesture of thanks to all the 501st has done in the name of Lucasfilm, THEY are paying for 200 501st members (all just ordinary fans) from around the world to be in the Rose Parade. It will be the largest marching display in the history of the Rose Parade. The message we received from the 501st leadership is that this request came directly from George Lucas. Does that sound like he's against anything that fans are doing? No. Sounds to me that he's more than willing to support fans. They just have to do things through the correct proceedures.

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Sounds cool. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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One more reason to watch the Rose Bowl Parade.

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Doesn't him selling those t-shirts fall under legal uses of a published work, in that you can make a parody?

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Yep. Fanfiction, fanart, fan-made anything without a licensing deal is all a violation of copyright and, if the author of the copyrighted material cannot argue before a judge that they did not know it existed, they can loose their copyright. They have to stomp on anyone they can be proven to know about...Which, for a company as big as GL's, means everyone.

Or, as it was put better than I could:
http://weberfaq.thefifthimperium.com/

Go to number 1.4, or search for 'fanfiction'. It'll be the first one.

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The author has mentioned this, and believes he'd have a very strong case under parody & fair use - unfortunately he believes that even if his case were 100% rock solid he'd lose in court anyway because he doesn't have the resources to go up against GL's horde of partnership collective drones.

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Which is where you hire a very specific mercenary company to come with you into court.

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(ominious hummmmmmmmmmm)

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While I have never made any money off of any of my ships sets, I wonder if George will have his lap dog devil inspired lawyers send me a letter about the two star wars ship sets I made? I wonder if they would try to lay claim to my one of a kind designs based off the fact that they had been inspired by star wars?

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If I'm not mistaken , no one wanted to buy in or market the original Star Wars and Lucas believing in his product went alone on this and basicly mortgaged his future - if I'm wrong on this correct me - but I feel he has the right to continue to own all liciencing rights to his creation

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You are right on the money there. GL approached 30 differant studios before Fox agreed to take up SW. And even then, they didn't want to but one Vice-Pres felt that he'd take a chance.

In fact, 7 days before the movie was complete, Fox almost pulled the plug! I can't remember the VP's name but he basicly told the Board of Directors that it was already complete and it was too late. He then went to George Lucas and told him that he had 7 days to complete what he had. The story claims that those who were left to finalize production were on 24 hours for those last 7 days.

After it was 'in the can' and for the premier, George Lucas and his friend Steven Spielberg went to Hawaii to be as far from Hollywood as possible when it bombed. That started the tradition that every time either of them have a moving premiering, they both go to Hawaii.

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No one can deny that Star Wars was one of the most inspirational films of the last 100 years. It blew everyone away and established the term block buster. I believe for many that Star Wars holds a special spot in their hearts that will never fade. Par none, I have seen Star Wars more times than I have seen any other movie ever made. I would still go to a Theater and watch it again if it were re-re-re-re-re-released.

Star Wars is a real undenyable WORLD ICON, one of the greatest films of all time, and should be viewed as the 10th Wonder of the world.

That said, WTF went wrong with Episodes I, II, and III?

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Obviously your preconceptions did not fit in GL's vision. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

That happens alot in sequels/ prequels etc.

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The problem with the 'parady/fair use' claim would seem to be him selling the shirts.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Except for # 1 being a litle long winded , I agree , what was wrong with these movies ? We put the first three on such a high pedistal that our expectations were way overblown for the next three and we were disappointed , in retrospect they were very good if not great movies

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I'd have to disagree; in retrospect, they were even worse than I thought at the time. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/laugh.gif Not that any of the SW movies were very good writing/acting/scifi to begin with... there just wasn't much (any?) competition at the time.

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maybe I'm simple , but if a movie entertains me , makes me forget my troubles for that alotted time it's done it's purpose

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I like PM mostly because of Liam Neeson. I liked parts of the movie more than anything in episode II. I hated the whole Jar Jar Binks and Gungin thing. That I think the movie could have done without, or at least been greatly improved upon.

To bad people were to afraid to say anything to George. "Hey George, don't you think this whole Jar Jar Binks character comes acrossed as, well gay?"

*Blank look from George* "No."

A few hours later the guy who asked the question is gone. How dare he question the MASTER WIZZARD behind Star Wars!

Episode II

"Mr. Lucas, about this dialog between Anikin and Pad---" *Blank stare from Lucas* - "Oh GOD, forgive me. Please don't fire me. I beg of you Mr. Lucas... I do anything...."

Star Wars broke the movie mold. Pure and simple it was a revolution that inspired over a billion people. Not too many things in life come along that can do that. So ya, Star Wars, even with its campy dialog, was at the time, just what the doctor ordered for the world. It was and is one of the best movies of all time. Any one dare challenge this ought to think twice.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Careful, let's not anger Darth Lucas...

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

{b] R O T F L M A O[/b] Thank you, thank you for giving me a good laugh. Thank you. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

What!? That pixelized image that looks vaguely like an R2 droid? What, humanity can't draw pictures of 3-legged round-topped robots now without Mr. Scum Lucas' permission? That's such a stupid, evil concept, that I can even imagine that people would think that!

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Never seen a copy of Mad Magazine, eh?

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"You call THIS a rescue?"

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Once. Years and years ago.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

It, and other satire, are still legal, though I wouldn't put it past a corporate mentality to consider buying laws to change that.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Hmm...Not up on those laws. Was unsure if satire could be sold.

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The problem with Star Wars 1, 2, 3 is that Lucas thought he could direct people, and he can't, atleast as well as others. He's very good at what he does, but when he made the original Star Wars movies, he had partners who knew how to get good, strong (if a bit hammy) performances out of the actors, and who could write decent script. It also doesn't help the rest of us that he basically made the prequils for his children, not for the viewing public. Lucas always wanted to be an 'artsy' film director-Star Wars took him by surprise as much as the rest of the world, and it's not what he wanted to do with his life. He kindof in a way IS Darth Vader if you think about it, with Lucas Arts and their lawyers the evil empire. I'm sure there's a dark, shadowy Emperor Palpatine in there somewhere that's directing all the evilness, but I don't see George Lucas as master manipulator here. I'm sure he clings to Star Wars a bit as his own intellectual property, but he's not the devil incarnate, just maybe can be viewed as the devil's figurehead in some ways, occasionally, but then power and money can be expected to corrupt us fragile humans.

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You know, really, if you think about it, the original Star Wars was like Lucas taking us all on a two-week all-expenses-paid vacation to Hawaii, and it's fantastic, and then the prequils are like him inviting us all over to his house 20 years later and we're all like "this is kinda skanky compared to last time, George...".

It's not like he had to give us what we wanted-he did the first time and the second time he capitalized on it. I'm sure at this point he's more interested in his kids' future wealth and property than he is in his own, not to mention the employees of Lucas Arts. It's not like he's burning babies. We just have all decided that Star Wars belongs to the world, and legally (unfortunately) it doesn't...but it will someday.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Only if your politicians stop stealing from the public by extending copyright indefinitely.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

I wonder if Lucas will come down as hard onthis one:
http://www.picturesonwalls.com/art.php?aid=9

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Oh I am sure he will once he finds out about this. Actually I read that he himself doesn't even know about many of these things and that it is the law firm that represents him going after these folks on his behalf and he has no knowledge of the action until someone says "Hey George look."

He might be a dark lord by nature, but I bet he isn't a micromanager.... or am I wrong?

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Hmm I wonder how the animated ASCII version of Episode IV is coming along... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

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Maybe I'm hopelessly old-time, but I'd word it "WTF went wrong with Episodes V, VI, I, II, and III?".

The original was everything you said. For years I'd have called it the best movie ever made (as I got older I granted that title to "Casablanca", but SW would still be #2). All the charm of the original was shredded in the first sequel, though.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

I like Episode V, The Empire Strikes Back. Episode VI however left a lot to be desired.

I liked parts of Episode I, mainly because of the Lead Actor, but hated, absolutely despised Jar Jar and that whole Gungion BS thing that looked like something out of A Bugs Life movie.

That whole crap about the Force now being microscopic things and that Anikins was concieved without his mother having sex was just George Lucas FUBAR crap and SOMEONE should had had a pair and stepped up and told him these things would suck, but no, no one did and thus Episode II, and III were made.

While III was ok, its timing was way the hell off. Anikin and Obi fight, and seconds later the Emperor says "I fear something bad has happened to Darth." And then Obi somehow cuts off Darths legs and one arm. Seconds later, Guess who shows up.

The movie was full of plot timing errors. A sign of a truly bad director in my honest heartfelt opinion.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Gotta disagree. The very first wrong turn was the Imperial Walkers - the importation of Battletech nonsense where it didn't belong. The big trick to armored warfare is low silhouette, and even in the original Luke's speeder demonstrated a suspention that would be great for a tank (a la "Hammer's Slammers"). All else (armor, weapons, training) being equal, a force of grav tanks taking advantage of terrain is going to wipe out a force of walker tanks sticking up like trees. It's painfully obvious that they did it because Battletech was popular with the comic book crowd about then. However, the point of Battletech was not futuristic armored warfare, but rather translating the medieval Samurai system hi-tech (i.e. not a tank with a crew, but a suit of armor for a noble warrior). That might have fit the Jedi thing, but as portrayed (Stormtrooper battle taxis) it was completely out of place.

Then there was the shift in mood from heroic fantasy to this dark... whatever you want to call it.

Finally the romance between Han & Princess Leia, with Luke conveniently removed from the triangle by being revealed as the gal's brother. Total crap. Luke was the hero => supposed to get the girl. Especially in the classic "Hero rescues the Princess" paradigm. Han, the mercenary side-kick of the idealistic hero, has no business getting the girl. At least not the Princess. If they wanted to introduce some lightsaber-waving Space-Zena, then Han could have her...

All in all, completely unsatisfactory.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Walkers are not really praticle weapons of war, they are mainly TERROR weapons.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

...Yaay for stories conforming to tired, old cliches!

That was sarcastic.

I had a longer rant, but I'm quite sure you didn't mean to imply that female characters are simply prizes to be handed out.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Actually, the tired old cliche is what happened in the movie - in real life the streetwise cool guy with the hopped-up ride gets the girl, not the starry-eyed nerd. So, in fantasy it should work the other way around. Inspires the nerds...

Depends entirely on the story. Zena the Warrior Princess - obviously not. The Avengers - surely you jest. Star Wars? The Princess was fundamentally a plot device. A reason for the heroic dering-do. Nothing more.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

Still comes across as hokey, though...

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The nerd already gets superpowers and becomes head of an ancient order of knights.

Han doesn't even get payed, if I remember correctly.

And the princess manages to be a character in her own right at least a few times in each movie. Which is a good thing.

Now, if they really want to have bucked convention, she would have gone off with Chewie...

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

My takes:

Star Wars IV: Classic, very well done space opera adventure, with very good action sequences with good pacing/timing. Good portrayal of good guy fear and death and chaos.

Star Wars V: Goodish but it's not a very complete story by itself. It's like a series episode that leaves plot threads dangling for the next episode and doesn't really resolve anything. Good effects, good atmosphere. Boring parts. Too much Yoda muppet and Jedi school lessons.

Star Wars VI: Goodish finale to trilogy with some weak points, especially the Ewoks and other bits that undermined the conflict and the sense of actual danger.

Star Wars I: Disappointing, with some potential and good parts, and some good effects, but too many really bad parts. Utterly unbelieveable underwater ecology with whales costantly chain-swallowing each other is just stupid, not exciting. Jedis bored reaction to it is appropriate for a viewer but not for characters supposedly in danger. Gungans are worse than Ewoks! Utterly unbelieveable physics-nonsensical over-accelerated pod race. Utterly unbelieveable Anakin abilities (build droid, insanely good racer, can fly fighter by instinct, finds the one "press here to turn off droid army and win climactic battle" button...). Bad acting, bad script. No one really seems afraid, ever (see Episode IV for people who show some fear in combat).

Star Wars II: Better than Star Wars I, but still disappointing. More good parts and good effects. Christopher Lee vs. Obi-Wan/Anakin and then Yoda is pretty good. Surface combat is pretty spectactular and ok, but slightly hyperactive and not entirely convincing. Lots of bad stuff though: bad script and acting and choreography (esp. Anakin and Padme), hyperactive/silly bits, like the arena combat and the flying R2D2 in a smelter that is like a platform-jumping computer game - are SO unbelieveable and disbelief-destroying. Again, no one really seems afraid, ever, which as in Episode I, undermines the conflict/tension.

Star Wars III: Better effects than Episode II, and lots of nearly non-stop action and significant events and death. But even more missed bets and screw-ups and potential to be far far better than it turned out. More bad choreography and timing and pointlessly unbelievable nonsensical and stupid action situations. Missiles that launch droids which grapple with fighters? Safely crash-landing a battleship from orbit without engines? That scene with Obi-Wan riding on a fake-o CGI dinosaur with super-ball resiliancy? Light-sabre fight next to lava waterfalls? I think not. The whole Anakin forbidden love transformation to evil thing had some dramatic potential, but the way it was done was very lame.

Alien: Good sci-fi horror film, apparently borrowing lots of ideas and aesthetics from Mario Bava's earlier Space "Vampires" film.

Aliens: Very good alien shoot-em-up adventure/horror.

Alien 3: Utterly unworthy sequel crap.

Alien 4: Outraged reviews and Alien 3 leave me with no desire to suffer through this, so I haven't seen it.

Predator: Good for an Arnie shoot'em up horror film.

Predator 2: Bad-ish crap sequel.

Alien vs Predator: Moronic, hyperactive and highly stupid, which wastes its expensive CGI graphics on horridly stupid plot and extremely fake-o CGI choreography.

* I am slightly amazed that anyone, even Atrocities, can possibly have changed his mind about AvP.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

When they are total crap in actual combat, they will quickly cease to be Terror weapons as soon as somebody fights back.

For example, how scary are Jaffa and their staff weapons in SG1? Sure they look scary, but when you shoot them they die, and they're big, noisy and use slow flashy weapons.

Walkers take that slow, flashy and vulnerable to a whole new level. Target practice.

Orbital Bombardment ftw http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

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Ya, walkers even get wiped out by 18-inch stubby-limbed muppets using stone-age wood/rock/vine technology.

Emperor Palpatine said something about them being crewed by "An entire legion of my best troops..." too...

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

That's because each ewok is secretly a Jedi Master!

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I'm with SJ on this one. Seriously, if you want to wipe out the rebel base, why do you send in troops first? I mean come on, two droids, one jedi, one smuggler, one princess and one farmboy are able to elude hordes (not to mention all the ones they killed) of your soldiers on (probably) the biggest base in the galaxy (which you constructed, why aren't those troops being trained better?!?) And you call for a "Ground invasion".

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They had the shield generators focused over the base and the weapons platform that could disable a whole ISDII for several minutes. Now logic says you could have immolated the areas around the shield turning the planet into uninhabitable slag with a boiling atmosphere but that would have been a boring plot device and I think vader wanted most of them alive so they HAD to invade the base under the shield.

IMO the AT-AT(elephant) walkers were cool, but just a flawed design, like most of the imperial crap(IE fighters without shields, the shoot here buttons, the blindspot behind a star destroyer ect, they just don't give a crap about the safety of their troops they just want big guns for cheap. I'm thinking that hydraulics are bound to be cheaper then an antigrav nit and may require less power to opperate). For one thing the guns only cover about 180 degrees or less in front of the thing, if they had put a turret on top, maybe a few SAM launchers, guns in the back, a few on the sides, and a few underneath(like the one that drops out of the falcon when they escape tatooine in Ep4) it could be a dam near unnaproachable walking fortress.

They were however covered by the AT-ST(chicken) walkers, so their exposed rears would have been covered save for the retarded marksmanship of the imperial gunners they should have been fine. And they did route the rebels from the base.

Re: [OT] More George Lucas bashing.
 

In general I agree that walkers are usually a poor choice for a fighting vehicle. However I think the AT-AT's can sort of technobabble their way out of being completely unbelievable by saying they have shield generators which due to their large hull can be strong enough to negate most or all expected incoming firepower, but which would be too heavy to cheaply put in a hovering vehicle.