How to use Pangea songs?
 

I'm a player of EA Pangea. I'm trying to use the powerful nature 1 songs but I'm not able to cast them. I see that they have a range 0 and aoe of 15. But even if I put my caster very near (2 or 3 squares) to the front line he can't cast them.
What does this mean, the only way to cast the songs is to be first line and soon completely sutrrounded by the enemy and die heroically?
Or be flying rear the enemy lines, cast it and retreat (Pan has not good flying casters ... no one apart a strong hero and empower a harpy scout seems bit too costly).
Or I am missing something? Someone ever cast some song?

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I tested one dryad in fronline and some satyrs as guards for him. The dryad start to use the songs when the enemies are on the frontline attacking the guards.

Maybe a little late but at least the spells work (tune of Fear and growth active seen)

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Ok, I wasn't in doubt if it is bugged or not, I'd like to know how to use them effectively ...

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

They sound great but don't seem to be particulary useful spells.

Twice, early in a game, I put the caster in the front row, set my melee troops to hold and attack, and scripted the caster to cast flying shards for a couple of turns and then cast one of the 3 spell songs. Both times the AI overrode the script and kept casting shards even though the enemy troops were definately in range.

I really wanted to see how the spell worked, so I attacked a province with no archers(I also had no archers), and set my troops to guard commander. The AI still overrode the script and kept casting shards.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Like i wrote i tried the same and to me it works fine. Do you fight special opponents like undead? Try normal independents even with archers.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I was fighting some barbarians with my army of hoplites. That seems about as plain as you can get.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

What spell did you script exactly?

The AI normally only overrides scripted spells if
A) they're using gems and it feels that the enemy is not strong enough to warrant that
B) the caster cannot cast the spell for some reason.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I think it was the death dance. I'm pretty sure I have the save at home; I'll verify and get back to you.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I scripted
attack
attack
attack (to come near the enemy)
song
song

I was 2 or 3 squares from the front lines, one has to understand how area of effect shapes

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

What song do you use?

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

tune of growth then tune of fear

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

The first two times I had the troops scripted for hold and attack. The caster was scripted for shards, shards, attack, tune of death, tune of fear.

The third time turns out to be a case of user error http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/redface.gif
The spellcaster was in the default position on the battlefield and not on the front row.

Still, it seemed like in all three cases (definately the first two) the enemy troops were within range 15 by the time the song spells were scripted to kick in.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

ha!

The error is (nearly) always in front of the computer http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...ies/tongue.gif

The songs have range of "0" squares, but 15 areas of effect.

This means the effect hits 15 areas around the caster - what is very unlikely to include one 15 squares away.
How the distribution is calculated is not fully known AFAIK, but I would guess it works similar to a 15-area fear or cold aura effect, but only temporary. There's some information about the working of (fear) auras by one of the devs which sheds some light on the distribution of effects, but I wasn't able to dig it up again.

However, you can safely assume the songs have a 'effective' range of 1-3 squares.

PS: use Pans to cast those spell songs ..

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

What I would love to see is an order that resulted in "Move forwards as if you were attacking, but cast spells at the same time". There's all kinds of neat sort range spells that would be much more useful if your mages would move towards the enemy.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Arralen,

You're right. My mistake.

Still, that makes those spells close to useless. From a single save I tried several times to get my Pan close to the front line to sing those songs. For the first four times I got him killed, but on the fifth time I actually a cast terror spell. It didn't seem have any effect. The next turn my surviving Pan was killed. I did win all five battles fairly easily, no thanks to those spells. It seems to me that those national spells should be a bit better.

Maybe if I set more troops to guard commander it would work better?

I'm curious. Do you know what causes a script to not work? In this case I guess the spell was automatically in range but it didn't cast because none of the target squares contained an enemy. Is this correct?

Good idea, Graeme.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I understood the diffetence between range and aoe.
I were in the second line, enemies were 1 or 2 squares away. I scripted attack, attack, attack (to advance) tune and tune.
Obviously is not clear how the aoe is implemented. It is a circle affecting both fiend and enemies? In this case the tunes are a waste of programming time of the devs.
Is it a shape of area 15 from the caster affecting only enemies? In this case the tunes should be very useful, but from experience this is clearly not the case. Is it half way (ie: area shaping but incuded in the 15 area circle) ??? Who knows? A word of the devs it is needed to use effectively these spells.

Seriously ... would you put a 350 gp Pan in the front line to cast these spell? Are you joking? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

AFAIK 15 AOE means a circle with a territory of 15.
That gives us 15=Pi*r^2 => r=sqrt(15/Pi)~=2.185
Assuming the circle is centered on the caster, that would make the spell affect anything withing a range of 2, or just a space of 1 between the caster and the affected enemy.

I'm not sure about wether it affects friends and foes or only the latter, since I haven't checked or tested those things, but atleast I can give you an approximation fo range http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

The problem is, apparently nobody (maybe not even the devs) knows exactly how the affected squares are chosen - I don't think it's "the 15 closest to the caster, breaking ties randomly in a uniform way".

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Thanks for the info, Agrajag. Only enemies should be valid targets for these spells; otherwise my script would have worked.

I may be completely missing something, but I think that in their current form those song spells are interesting concepts that don't work in practice.

They would be somewhat useful if the range was two or three. You could reduce the area of effect to compensate a bit. Otherwise, I can't see how anyone in their right mind would ever script them, and without scripting they would only be used once in a blue moon.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Exactly. It's more like "15 squares around the caster, chosen randomly, but retaining a 'circlish' kind of shape."

What sucks is that if it's a true AoE, that means it's 'wasting' some of the precious 15 squares behind and to the sides of the caster; ie. to achieve the full effect of the spell, your caster is supposed to be surrounded on all sides.

I think a solution in part would be to make the songs fan shaped at a 90 degree angle in the front arc and still 15 squares of AoE.

It could be that the spell isn't casting, not because it isn't in potential range, but because when it goes through the simulator, it doesn't manage to hit a single square with an enemy in it. In fact, the spell doesn't have a range at all, so it would be impossible for this spell to not be cast simply due to range! There must be some different criteria for range 0 spells. Or maybe you truly do need to have an adjacent enemy to satify the range 0 requirement. In that case, my 90 degree fan idea wouldn't any difference for helping the spell go off.

=$= Big J Money =$=

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Sorry for bringing up an old thread, but it is in the strat guide so maybe I can be forgiven.

The only reliable way to use Tune of Fear in my experience are if you have flyers doing the singing. I haven't found any use for the other songs. If regrowth song instead of causing vines to

Example 1
Take a Gorgon. Give her some tools, preferably something causing fear, not forgetting things that keep her alive. Attack one round, start script in Tune of Fear for the last scripts. Watch enemy rout.

Example 2
If you have access to flight for Pans (via items or flight spells), buff them up, attack one round (preferably trampling if possible :) ), Tune of Fear. Watch enemy rout. You need more than one flying Pan for this to work though, and it is worthile against enemies where Blade Wind isn't an option (I think Blade Wind is the better option in most cases).


I'd really hope the songs got some buffing. They are quite thematic, but so utterly crap :( I'd love to see the buffing songs boosted a bit, and maybe change Tune of Growth to a buff song (as it is, it is the most useless song, not even the AI ever picks it).

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

By that logic, Astral Shield must be a truly kickass spell. ;)

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

I don't know how that has anything to do with Pangaean songs, but I am sure you are burning to explain that...

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Songs are not crap at all, you just have to use several singers at the same time. The fatigue song for example is utterly devastating if sung by 2-3 dryads at the same time. I've taken dowen SC's that way.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Not true. Somewhere, Kristoffer put out a digram for what spells squares are affected in an area affect spell. I noted that the distribution was VERY peculiar.

There is very little chance that the tunes will work at range 2 (due to being overwritten) and only a moderate chance when used perfectly.

The *best* use, is with a high HP or high awe guy, right in the middle of the enemy. Preferaby with some regen going on.

So for example a carrion dragon, with awe-9/10 Nature 9.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Not true. The AI will override spells if something has a high enough priority, according to the AI. There was an issue with astral shield, among other spells, having an unusually high priority, and overriding the script.

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

But how to effectively usew them in a normal battle? With flying units?

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

if it has range 0 then you clearly have to stand next to the target. (AOE has nothing to do with range I think)

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

Read my small guide:
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...ght=dryad+song

There is even a savegame in there as an example. :)

Re: How to use Pangea songs?
 

If you're trying to affect your own troops, I'd suggest (atleast, it seems logical to me) to position your casters around and inside of, a body of troops. Say one in the middle and four of them at the cardinal directions, scripted to Cast (song), Cast (song), Cast (song, do something else, do something else, and then follow troops, cast spells, or whatever. And then script your troops to hold, then attack. That ought to give you sufficient coverage for most of your troops, if you don't have a huge amount.

An alternative might be to script your mages to cast, cast, cast, cast, cast, position them *in front* of your troops, and let your troops then move *through* the casting area (past the casters), allowing the area they're moving through to be targeted.

In the case of targeting the enemy, you might script cast, cast, cast, cast, cast, run away, put them up front, right behind a line of militia, and hope that the militia will soften any initial attacks long enough for your spells to take effect, and your mages to run away, and then time your heavy troops to arrive on the scene in time to cover your mages' escape.