Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Hi together,

is a bug thread in the current form usefull? I find it very unmanageable. Every page more makes it more difficult for players to add bugs because its difficult to find out what's already reported and what's not.

Furthermore its not clear which bugs are fixed with a patch and which are still exists. The last <font color="green">green</font> post which shows resolved problems is on page 28 and we're now on page 43!

I don't know what is planned by developer but there are some big annoying bugs (for example the dom increase bug, miasma bug) and dozens of medium/minor things (for example many unique artifact inbuild spells don't work, province defence are sometimes wrong, like Late Era Mictlan in water provinces, etc.) to fix.

I would suggest to have an active list of current known bugs and some type of importance for players (minor, medium, major bug) and mabye some comment from developer like "will be fixed very soon", "its not a bug" or "we'll fix it earlier or later".

The list would be updated whenever a new bug comes up or after a patch bugs are fixed.

I would provide/manage such a list if there is enough interest.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I think it's a good idea. Ie to be sure there was a bug I've remade a lot of tests about dominion spread you had already made, because I no longer manage to look in the enormous bug thread.

(I also agree about the priorities, dominion spread and Miasma income are the most annoying bugs)

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I agree, this thread is unusable in its form now, I don't even bother to browse it anymore ...

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Well, we just need a mod to delete all posts and someone collect all bugs, but it seems that moderators are not doing anything here.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Its been suggested that thread should be edited but that would cause quite a few problems. There is quite abit of range on the opinion of what is or isnt a bug versus suggestions, wishlist, opinions.

If anyone wants to compile a nice short-list of what they feel are really bugs then Im sure it will get looked at. I would recommend that it be very limited in wording, and have links to posts or threads which further explain each item, since that tends to insure that it will get read.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

If somebody feels up to writing a shortlist of known issues, then we could use that as the basis for a second bug thread. If we keep the bug threads limited to around 20 pages at a stretch before locking and making new ones, they would stay usable.

This would also require that moderators actively monitor the thread and summarily delete EVERYTHING that is not an actual bug report. Discussion about the bug in question? Delete. Typo reports? Delete. General commentary? Delete. Feature wishes? Delete. Complaints about issue xyz? Delete. Ruthlessly axe anything and everything that is even slightly off topic. And if any user here doesn't like that, why, he or she is perfectly welcome to bugger off at the earliest convenience.

If people want wider discussion of any given problem, then they can damn well post a separate thread and take their analysis, comments, complaints and wishlists there. A link to the separate thread can always be put into the actual bug report post in the bug thread.

That way the bug thread stays clear and concise and serves a useful function.

Edi

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I agree. I admit to not having looked much in the bug thread lately. In other words it is not useful in its current form http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Perhaps a bug discussion thread and a bug collection thread?

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Why not have a sticky thread with known bug and look the thread?

New bugs can be posted in new thread and when discution is over the bug is added to the bug thread.

Why not have a forum. Technical support or Bugs and Suggestions. Many games have this solution. Will give much better overview of bugs.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I completely agree and have recommended to a moderator any post which did not contain a report of an actual bug be deleted. Even tho the thread contains posts which are nothing except a question... I was told these posts cannot be deleted. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/confused.gif Despite offering to list the posts which had ZERO bug information I could not convince a moderator to delete them. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/frown.gif

Thus I could only watch while the topic became more and more filled with unhelpful posts. There's people posting questions, game tips, and other non-bug related material which clutters the purpose of the bug thread topic. One of the reasons I started the Patch Improvement topic was so the developers had one page where they could see exactly what features gamers would like within a patch. I would love to organize the bug thread in the same manner yet I don't have the time. Perhaps one of the moderators with time will do some spring cleaning and remove the non-bug related posts.

I have some vacation time coming so hopefully by the end of December at least the patch improvement topic will be updated providing the developers an easy fast way to read everyones opinion. Here's the link: Patch_Improvements

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Whilte the Patch Improvements thread is very nice, it's not everyone's opinion. It's "how many forum users think they want to see this added to the game".

Bug subforum could work. A new thread for every new bug report, and a compilation thread that would be agressively managed. Duplicate bug reports wouldn't matter as long as they aren't added to the compilation thread.

What about this major/minor distinction? Bugs that directly affect at least one whole nation could be major. Miasma bug would be major. The dominion spread strangeness/bug would be major. The fact that LA C'tissian capital-only mage isn't actually C'tis-only wouldn't be major, because it only has an effect if another nation has conquered C'tis capital. A bugged random site wouldn't be major. What about a bugged unit? A bugged sacred unit? A bugged capital site (i.e. EA Abysia having no heat-spreading sites)? A mage with bugged random stats?

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I completely agree, but this forum is the best tool Illwinter has for identifying what gamers enjoy, want or dislike. I wish I could encourage all the silent readers to take two minutes and drop their opinion within the patch improvement thread.

Coming from a software company I would recommend setting a severity status for each bug.
Severity_1 = Can occur during any game causing the game to crash or unable to continue.
Severity_2 = Game bug which effects an entire game when using a nation such as the Miasma bug within C'tis.
Severity_3 = Bug on a specific spell, magic site, building, item, or unit.
Severity_4 = Description not matching qualities/characteristics of a unit, item, or spell.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

That severity level thing is a good idea. We might as well use it. Especialy if we also get a bug report and discussion subforum, it'll make maintaining a concentrated bug report thread easier.

Edi

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I'm not sure how much benefits a subforum would bring to us. A discussion thread and a well maintained concluded buglist in the first post (maybe second and third as well) should do the thing. The only big advantage i see is that we could link from the buglist to a thread which explains the bug more detailed but this should work in other ways likewise.

Working in a software company too i also prefer categories for bugs. I would combine your severity 1 and 2 to just 'major bugs'. I don't think that there are that much Severity 1 in future and johan acts very fast in such a case. Using 'major bugs' everyone knows on first look what it meant.

Severity 3 would be just 'bugs' ('minor bugs'? Sounds like peanuts http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/smirk.gif)

Severity 4 would be 'description bugs'. Maybe including typos but its also possible to do simple typos in an extra thread.

There should be a fourth category for 'mod bugs'. But i would seperate this bugs in another thread. Maybe we can've such a bug list in the mod subforum.

In moment i'm analysing the bug thread. When finished i would write a list and try to categorize the bugs. This list will be as compact as i could do it. I'll try to group bugs to one if possible. Bugs which aren't reproduceable wount be in the first run of the list. We could discuss/analyze such phenomena.

I'm not sure when i've finished a first version. Most likely between christmas and new year.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Edi is right - the problem with the bug thread is that there is too much in it that is not bug reports. I'd recommend converting the current bug thread into a bug discussion thread, and distilling the actual bug reports into a new bug reports only thread. Only actual code bugs confirmed to exist but not yet fixed should be allowed in that thread. Then, patrol that thread so absolutely no junk gets into it. This would be useful for developers and players, since a thread with only actual bugs would be reasonable to read and keep track of.

I'll have a few hours on airplanes next week and might tackle the bug distilling job (or I might not, heh) but am not a moderator.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

I completely agree... I would love to dive into the current bug thread and remove all the non-bug related posts. Unfortunately only moderators have this power and none of them seem interested in helping Illwinter.

Yes a moderator is best for maintaining a useful bug thread. If you do have time to create the new bug thread make sure to get approval from one of the moderators so they can make it a sticky and remove the old bug thread. Also make sure you have the first two posts under your name so you can add stuff or provide updates as needed.

Re: Bug Thread usefull in the current form?
 

Something I've seen elsewhere like trillian forum (though poorly updated) is a a line of text summerizing the suggestion (or bug) which also served as a link to the page the bug was mentioned on. Something you guys might consider.