Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Hello folks!

Here is a little Christmas gift for you all:

First public pre-release of the Cold War mod I have been working on for some time now.

Here is the idea: I guess many of you happen to play modern heavily-armored battles from time to time. Isn't it too bad that so many of the high tech programs of the recent days have been written off due to budget cuts, given there was no more enemy around?

What if there had been an enemy? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif
See where this is leading us?

So here comes a little total conversion mod, where pre-1990 countries, orbats, strategies and feuds have been made to evolve in a totally different direction.
Imagine Central Europe divided in two ideological blocks armed to the teeth (nothing new yet), with weaponry of the 2010s...

Ever wondered what a T-95 would have been worth?
Ever battled infantry squads armed with G-11s?



Have fun trying it out!
(Works in hotseat, PBEM and also against the IA)

Just extract the archive to the WinSPMBT install folder you want to mod (better not the one you are already modding on your side), then install the OOB set using the OOB sets manager (don't forget to do that!).

To remove the mod, simply restore the default OOBs the same way and run the deinstaller I've included to restore the other default files (so the Russians don't keep on running under the USSR flag eternally for no reason... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif ).

See the included readme for more technicalities, and don't hesitate to contact me for more infos.



The mod is a bit short on OOBs for now, since I have included only the ones that were more or less complete already. I'll keep up the work on this mod (this is only the first version), add new OOBs, new and corrected icons, etc., ultimately scenarios and campaigns, and of course I'll keep it compatible with the V3.0 as soon as it is out.


Greetings!

Plasmakrab


Warning: 4.6Mb download! (what did you expect?)

Edit: DL links changed to latest version mod installer (and install is mow 19Mb BTW)

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Only problem here is that you don´t want to back to those puny Leo2A6s and other trash-metal.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Really good work Plas,

Your icons are excellent.

I made some for Bradleys (with and without ERA), Abrams (Even TUSK), Strykers and M113a3 w/slat. Feel free to use them in your MOD. Atleast replace the Abrams turrets. The 120mm barrel looks too wimpy. (Leo is better)

I'd like to get your help with adding winter (white) camo to icons.

OOBs are pretty good, still checking through them. Haven't plugged it into the game yet, my CD version is too modified.

Good work over all.

Goose

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Thanks for the feedback, Gooseman!

If you want to try it out (that's what it's meant for after all), better install a second clean game version alongside your main one, it takes only a few hundred Mb hard drive.
That's what I do to mod whatever I want while being able to play PBEM games.

As for icons, well, many of the ones I included will need a facelift at some point, and I'll probably make my own replacements for some original ones so I can add my own modifications to them (eg some fictional LAV variants). The Abrams looks good enough for me right now (just like the Leo2, except for the latest variants), in any case good enough for me not to make an attempt at redoing it! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

I'm not sure I can help you for winter icons, I'm in a bit of a conundrum in this domain: this is where you really run into the limits of camoed icons: the contrast is so high you end up not seeing them properly. At the other end of the scale, you have winter icons with a dirty greyish white color that just doesn't make it.
There are some winter series I'll have to redo in the near future, I'll tell you then if I can come up with a reliable technique.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Thanks for the winter feedback.

I have tried them but it is very hard to find a balance like you mentioned. I want to redo my US icons with some that look like they were done at the last moment. I am working on a series of scenarios that may evolve into a campaign.

It involves going from Germany to a former East Block country to seize nuclear warheads. Counrty is in a civil war state and it is believed that the warheads will fall into the wrong hands.

Somebody needs to take the lead to secure them. UN is too slow and political and NATO refuses to get involved. The time is now (unfortunately winter).

The story leads up to the fact that they have to fight their way back. Germanys new leaders take offense to the action and claims US forces are criminals and vows by any means to prevent them from returning with the Nukes.

Story gets deep but, for all those who have secretly wondered about head to head Leo and Abrams combat will hopefully get a chance.

As far as redoing Abrams or other icons, I have done them already. Biggest update for Abrams was to make the barrell look more realistic as the Leo. I also gave each version from M1 to M1A2 SEP all unique camo patterns(even autumn pattern).

Check them out:

http://www.shrapnelcommunity.com/thr...o=&fpart=1

good job either way, very unique and forward looking MOD.

Gooseman

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

How does the installer work? I have a lot of modified units and things and I don't want to lose them. If I just run the thing will it nuke all of my work?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Yup, mostly it will, sorry. That's why I recommend installing a second 'clean' version of the game alongside your main 'work' one.
It takes less than 350Mb more, and you'll also have a certified clean copy for PBEM games once you deinstall the mod.

It all depends on what you have modified. The mod's OOBs are created in a Custom OOB folder, but new icon and lbm files are created and overwritten, so there may be conflicts with your own edits if they have the same indexes. Same thing for picklists if you have edited them.

All in all, better install the mod on a clean game version, it will always come in handy anyway.

EDIT: After checking the edited files list you posted, I think you'll have no problem with the mod provided you backup your icon0099 file and your OOBs. (and you have no custom picklists, namelists, ranklists or lbms)
I use icon files 47, 48, 49, 54, 57, 59, 99, 100, 101, 102 for now, and probably going further in this direction in the future.

Thanks for the interest! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Your welcome and thanks for your timely answer. How do you create a copy folder?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Do I just have to put my disk in and install the game again?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Eine Antwort auf meine letzte Mitteilung ist nicht mehr noetig, weil ich die Frage geantwortet habe. Tatsaechlich war es wirklich leicht, deswegen fuehle ich jetzt ein bischen Doof.

Aber das ist vollkomen egal. Ich muss sagen, dass Ihre Arbeit wunderbar ist! Gut gemacht! Die "Icons" sind sehr gut gemalt. Die Einheiten sind Toll!

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Wait wait, you somehow figured out how to edit the picklists? http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/shock.gif

Please tell us how to! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...es/biggrin.gif

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Well, I sorta had to, what with new formations and all... http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/wink.gif

No rocket science though, thanks to the explanations and examples Andy posted on the DOS SPMBT list site a while ago.
Granted, it took me the best of two days figuring out how the hell the whole thing was working, but once you get the whole picture it is nearly clear and very efficient!

If you want to have a try yourself please take some time to read the help file and examples thoroughly, kickstart some of your own edits and check what it does.
Editing itself is a pain even through a table editor, you keep jumping from Excel to MOBhack, and the only thing that will test is running endless random battles till the IA buy pick is right enough (IA purchases, you deploy).

Oh, and of course, BACK. UP. EVERYTHING. http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/images/smilies/happy.gif

Edit: changed the DL address to a freshly uploaded file, probably some registration issue with the Yahoo site.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Plasma, is it possible to say, copy the US picklist .dat file into the slot for say El Salvador, and get the AI to pick like it's the US; if you wanted to replace El Salvador with a US style force?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Okay, for some talk about the cold war mod.

Laser PDW, I don't think they would be developed well enough to be deployed until the 2010s or 2020s, evne with Cold War Budgets. You have to do a lot of basic research, etc which goes along at the same pace whether or not it's funded heavily.

Upgunning the T-xx Series and Abrams series to 140mm would be a major undertaking; I would imagine a remote unmanned turret would be picked for simple expediency, as opposed to a major major major redesign of the turret to take the much larger gun.

I'd imagine that 140mm would be phased in in the 2000s; since a lot of countries like the US etc, have fairly recently only just jumped to 120mm and would like to get as much life out of the new guns before they need yet another jump in calibre.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

BTW your link to the Pick List design doesn't work, is there a chance you can email it to me at ryancrierie at yahoo dot com?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Hmm, caliber upgrade isn't just about what you want to get out of your old guns, but mostly about what the enemy is throwing at you...

As for upgunning the Abrams, I know the idea sounds wild, but it prevents from having to pursue a totally different line of research, with e.g. low-power ETC 120mm guns. Not that it hasn't interest, I'll cetainly use it in other countries, but developping 140mm ETC guns from scratch is hard enough.

I haven't worried too much about the 140mm conversion since I know it has been seriously studied for the Leopard-II and the Leclerc IRL. I'm still considering my M1A3 as having manual loading (maybe assisted, artillery-style?), but you have to understand that the whole affair (as for the Germans) is a mere stopgap to counter the first T-95s that are more of a match for the M1A2 and Leo2A5 than any previous Soviet tank. The solution that was proposed at the time (apart from plugging a new autoloader in the turret bustle...) was to go for conventional combustible two-parts ammo, with 2/3 as a front part containing the projectile (gives a decent length for a sabot rod) and 1/3 back with most of the propellant and the primer. Gives you two 140mm rounds in the place of 3 120mm ones in an Abrams' ready rack.

If you've played with the Block-III vehicles, you know that they are nearly untouchable by contemporary Soviet weaponry. Of course, they are also shockingly expensive (ETC gun, autoloader, laser PDW, airburst coax, remote-piloted turret, I don't even want to think about the engine(s)...) and are reserved to some predeployed forces in Germany, Turkey, Korea, Quwait...
Hence the need for a cheaper tank to keep the bulk of the forces up to date until there are enough of these behemoths for everyone.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

Frankly, I think not.
You see, the lists are mostly made up of formation numbers (plus pick probabilities and prices, of course), and I fear equivalent formations in the OBFs of say, USA and Salvador, aren't in the same place in the formation index.

You can try swapping files, but the most probable thing that will happen is that you'll end up with a Salvadorean force made up of, say, odd support platoons, lonely utility vehicles and tank transports by the dozen... or something equally useless.

Best is to use the Excel spreadsheet Andy made up (link posted earlier on this thread), and check the various entries against the formations in the country's OBF. Mostly, that's how it works.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

hi plasmakrab, posting instead of pm'ing it as i would like to welcome other comments if applicable.

do you plan to remodel rifles as well? this is of course an infamous discussion to date, however i consider it essential as platoon to&e have been constructed around the capabilities of the individual rifle-men and thus their rifle - countries with "bullpup" rifles tend to e.g. have a sniper somewhere in the platoon, assigned or organic, to make up for the range shortfall, or alternativly have invested in MGs rather then SAWs.

i have no idea to what extent this is possible to mod in SPMBT, but IMO the critical tactical combat parameters for a rifle can be condensed to different range groups, and would very widely - a none-scoped "bullpup" rifle e.g. would have a higher short-range (<50m) and lower long-range (>200m) value then say the M16A1. alternatively, the OPPOSITE is true for "long" rifles, especially 7.62mm ones, thus the from my view "traditional" SPMBT approach "all rifles improve accuracy at a set rate with decling range" (i could be wrong) needs to be evaluated - if this is possible. do have an interest in going in this direction with your mod?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod: first release!
 

One question. How come bullpup rifles should be more inaccurate only by their design of being bullpup? Ergonomics or what? I´ve never shot a bullpup rifle and I´ve heard that at some situations bullpup-style design tends to present the shooter as a bigger target due to the ergonomics.

However, given that bullpup-design makes room for longer barrels and hence higher velocities for a given size, I see no point in making it less accurate. Enlighten me.

Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

Pleeease guys, don't start dragging me into this sterile debate! http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/image...s/rolleyes.gif

First thing to remember is that (with similar experience levels) the rifle accuracy amounts to nearly nothing in the hit probability.
This being said, I have indeed expanded the accuracy rating of small arms, roughly from 1 to 6 (most assault rifles being between 3 and 4). But what's about bullpup in this? I've given better accuracy to a G-36 than to an AK-47, but to a Lee-Enfield .303 as well. Same way, an L-85 gets higher accuracy than a FAMAS, bullpup as well.
The rating I have given is basically guesswork, but the objective criteria are barrel length, recoil (and buffering thereof), ergonomics and vision devices. Bullpup designs tend to get higher values because they are more recent and technologically more advanced all around.

Now what about starting another thread on this subject if you want to?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

sorry PK, can see your logic...
thanks for the info - question answered

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

the following is only about real life since i'm not seasonned enough to talk about in game effects of bullpup vs traditionnal design.

the bullpups main advantage is their compactness, very appreciable in the everyday life (mostly in vehicles) but also is some specific combat situation like FIBUA (Fight in Builded Up Area) and CQB (Close Quarter Battle).

In such situation the maniability and bulkiness, are important parameters and can give you an appreciable advantage. Note that i'm not saying that it can give you a hughe adavnatage like a corner shot weapon could give you but it make your life more confortable, at least not more harder.

For exemple, you can focus on another thing than the length of your weapon (in close combat situation and certainly in FIBUA, we are wroking systematically with the bayonet fitted) wich won't make you easier to spot by the ennemy.


Now about pure precision shooting, i would tend to say that traditionnal rifles are better suited for shoot over 300m since they are more well balanced.

One thing to know about sighting devices like on the Steyr Aug 77 and on the L-85 is that they make your job a bit easier in open field but are a real handicap in close combat (because of their "tunnel effect" on your SA) and make shooting on transversal mobile target (an ennemy that is running at 200m from your left to your right for exemple) harder than with iron sights.

Now, all in all, i'm convinced that a trained soldier with a specific weapon system won't be less effective than another trained with another weapon system ( given that the caliber is teh same for both) becaus ethey coth know how to exploit the advantage and how to manage the weakness of their tools.

cheers,

Jan

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

Since you did mention the scope, what about the G36 system? Red Dot Sight for short ranges and scope in one neat package?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

I've been looking at the accuracy issue (mostly with small arms) myself and trying not to deviate too far from the default values. But I am very curious about the 6 value assigned to the M8 and M29 weapons, a rather dramatic increase from the 1 given all other rifles.
Anyone know why there's such a dramatic increase for these particular weapons?

As to precision shooting I've fired M14's, AR15's, M16A1's, M16A2's, BAR (once), G3's, L1A1's, AK47's, SA80's, and Steyr AUG's.
And IMHO the configuration of the weapon is a non issue. Some weapons have better inherent accuracy then others (say an M14 vs an AK47) but far more important is the skill of the shooter.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

"But I am very curious about the 6 value assigned to the M8 and M29 weapons, a rather dramatic increase from the 1 given all other rifles.Anyone know why there's such a dramatic increase for these particular weapons?"

IIRC in general a 6 accuracy value assigned ot a rifle means that it is fitted with a scope. That at least is what I remember from the last time the issue was dealt with.In general it is assumed that the inherent greater accuracy of this or that rifle when firing with iron sights is a too small advantage to be of any relevance at the scale the game operates.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

The XM29 was supposed to be fitted with a computerized FCS. That could be the reason. Its irrelevant as the OICW program has been shelved indefinitly. Having both the XM8 and XM29 in the OOB does not appear to be an accurate indicator of the future ATM.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

Isn't the OICW scope incorporated into the 25mm XM25 or how is that grenade launcher called?

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

The FCS was developed for the OICW, but I think you are correct in suggesting that it will still be used for the XM25. It's primary function was the control and targeting of the computerized airburst munition for that component. So far the GL is the only portion of the OICW continuing development. The XM8 and the XM29 are both basically dead.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

I know the XM29 is well and truly dead but I thought the XM8 was still alive.
Too bad if it isn't, unlike the XM29 Buck Rodgers Do-it-All gun the XM8 looked reasonable, I even hear they were considering a 6.8mm version and from what I hear it's a pretty nice round.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

the GL of the F2000 have a similar targetting device and, as far as i know, it's actually fielded by several SF groups and by one army (Slovenia).

Do the F2000 GL also have value "6"?

cheers,

Jan

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

The XM8 has been canceled and there is a hold on the new small arms trials indefinitly. The Future Combat Pistol was also axed. No multi-caliber requirement was ever specified for the XM8 nor the trials it was entered into after the effective end of the OICW program. Only the SOF SCR and its subsequent outgrowth the SCAR-L/H had multi-caliber requirements.

Re: Cold War 2020 mod, not bullpup rifles!
 

I guess some congressman has to much invented in Mattel ;-)